Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[NitroS]

thanks yea thats who i meant. so if wise ones come across shadowspawn they run?

[yoniy0]

You have to remember, Aiel take their security very seriously. It's not very likely Shadowspawn would've made it through into one of their keeps, but even if some did, we were told several times that even Aiel children know how to defend themselves. If push came to shove, I'm sure they'd have made good use of their belt knives.

[Durinax]

You have to remember, Aiel take their security very seriously. It's not very likely Shadowspawn would've made it through into one of their keeps, but even if some did, we were told several times that even Aiel children know how to defend themselves. If push came to shove, I'm sure they'd have made good use of their belt knives.

beat me too it. I am rereading the fires of heaven and rand looks at a blacksmith and thinks to himself that he held it as if he could use it. And blacksmiths have a position as high as (I would say arguably higher) than a WO, so I think the WO's have the means to protect themselves without channelling. They are not milk hearted wetlander women (I love it when Avi references the wetlander women as weak in such funny ways)

[TristanWebb]

Shadowspawn don't enter the waste unless they are after Rand anyway, they call it the Dieing Grounds and don't venture below the Blight.

[Luckers]

is it implied that meilyn killed larelle? or could she still be alive just not used again?

Merean Redhill, do you mean? Yes, that would be my guess, but we don't know for sure. Either way, as you say, Larelle hasn't turned out anywhere since.

 

Or possibly she was also Black and hunting the Dragon, and that is why she hasn't turned up--because like Moiraine she was out in the world hunting for Rand.

 

I wonder if this might not have been the subject matter of the Moiraine prequel. We know it dealt with why Moiraine was able to get to the Two Rivers 'just in time' [indicating there was a specific reason of significant enough drama for a story]. We also know she thought she had 'stolen a march on the Shadow'.

 

Maybe Larelle resurfaced. Moiraine investigated due to her long absence and connection to Merean, providing the drama (hunting the Black Ajah), and in the process Larelle gave Moiraine a clue that they themselve didn't understand--for instance the story of a Second Captain of the Companions finding a child, or something like that. Larelle and the Black Ajah go off investigating in Illian, but Moiraine through her own investigations already knows the Second Captain was from Emmond's Field.... or some such.

 

Moiraine gets the right clue to get her there just in time, and thinks she's stolen a march on the shadow, and some intrigue to make a story....

 

You have to remember, Aiel take their security very seriously. It's not very likely Shadowspawn would've made it through into one of their keeps, but even if some did, we were told several times that even Aiel children know how to defend themselves. If push came to shove, I'm sure they'd have made good use of their belt knives.

 

And indeed they do, as we saw with Seana, though that may not be enough to save them. Wise One's die like anyone else.

[yoniy0]

Cool! We still have to contend with Ishamael's knowing the DR is somewhere in the Two Rivers as early as two years before Winter Night, but I wonder why it never occurred to me that Larelle might've been BA. She certainly wouldn't have been the only Black sister to enjoy such stellar reputation.

[Vardar]

The Shadow Rising, Chapter 42, the last page:

Verin considered them right back, then suddenly, without seeming to look, reached behind her to snatch a girl of about ten of twelve out of the onlookers. The girl, her long dark hair caught up with blue ribbons, went rigid with shock. "You know Daise Congar, girl?" Verin said. "Well you find her and tell her there are injured men who need a Wisdom's herbs, and tell her to jump"

 

Now maybe Perrin, as a man, is bad at telling ages, however looks like theres an unknown sparker in the Two Rivers? How else would Verin have known she was there? Just something that caught my eye. Didn't Rand mention a really young girl with the girls Verin and Allana took out of the TR? I know 12 is kinda young to spark, but I suppose there are exceptions to every rule.

[yoniy0]

looks like theres an unknown sparker in the Two Rivers?

Yes, I concur, it had to be someone with the ability (whether or not she'd have to be a Sparker is another issue. I'm not sure about that). What do you mean by unknown, though? Jancy Torfinn, a 14 years-old, was the youngest Rand knew by name, but the implication is there that she might not have been the youngest girl Verin and Alanna took. Perrin has noted before how young Evin seemed when he returned to the TR. I don't find it that strange that he would've thought a girl her age about 10 or 12. And that's only if Alanna and Verin would've taken someone that young to begin with (I seem to recall Verin mentioning they might've brought a whole lot more were they willing to lax the age requirements, but that might've been concerning older girls, and I can't find it either way). Anyhow, I don't think we ever got a comprehensive list of TR girls in Salidar.

[Vardar]

looks like theres an unknown sparker in the Two Rivers?

Yes, I concur, it had to be someone with the ability (whether or not she'd have to be a Sparker is another issue. I'm not sure about that). What do you mean by unknown, though? Jancy Torfinn, a 14 years-old, was the youngest Rand knew by name, but the implication is there that she might not have been the youngest girl Verin and Alanna took. Perrin has noted before how young Evin seemed when he returned to the TR. I don't find it that strange that he would've thought a girl her age about 10 or 12. And that's only if Alanna and Verin would've taken someone that young to begin with (I seem to recall Verin mentioning they might've brought a whole lot more were they willing to lax the age requirements, but that might've been concerning older girls, and I can't find it either way). Anyhow, I don't think we ever got a comprehensive list of TR girls in Salidar.

 

Ahh Jancy, that could have been her then. And yea that's why I mentioned the Perrin having issues with ages thing. He may have been off. What ages did the tower accept? (in my head I'm thinking 14 to 20ish)

 

Or maybe she was one of the ones they said they left behind, but I thought they couldn't sense a sparker until they were ready to spark (I may be wrong about that). I doubt a girl of that age who is a non sparker had started to learn on her own, I may be wrong however.

[Luckers]

Cool! We still have to contend with Ishamael's knowing the DR is somewhere in the Two Rivers as early as two years before Winter Night, but I wonder why it never occurred to me that Larelle might've been BA. She certainly wouldn't have been the only Black sister to enjoy such stellar reputation.

 

Ishamael's resources are not the Black Ajah's resources--it would actually explain why Moiraine was wrong about having stole a march on the shadow--she stole one on the Black Ajah, but not the Shadow as a whole.

 

I know, I know... people in the Wheel not sharing information? It's impossible. :D

 

The Shadow Rising, Chapter 42, the last page:

Verin considered them right back, then suddenly, without seeming to look, reached behind her to snatch a girl of about ten of twelve out of the onlookers. The girl, her long dark hair caught up with blue ribbons, went rigid with shock. "You know Daise Congar, girl?" Verin said. "Well you find her and tell her there are injured men who need a Wisdom's herbs, and tell her to jump"

 

Now maybe Perrin, as a man, is bad at telling ages, however looks like theres an unknown sparker in the Two Rivers? How else would Verin have known she was there? Just something that caught my eye. Didn't Rand mention a really young girl with the girls Verin and Allana took out of the TR? I know 12 is kinda young to spark, but I suppose there are exceptions to every rule.

 

Verin references two girls around that age in LoC...

 

Five of these girls—five!—had the spark inborn, including Mat's sister and Wile and young Jancy; they would channel eventually whether anyone taught them or not and be very strong. She and Alanna had left two more behind to be gathered up in a year or so, when they were old enough to leave home.

 

A year or two would fit well with Perrin's guess of 10 to 12

[yoniy0]

I know, I know... people in the Wheel not sharing information? It's impossible. :D

Add to that FS ineptitude, and it's downright incomprehensible.

 

A year or two would fit well with Perrin's guess of 10 to 12

Thanks for that.

Edited August 21, 2012 by yoniy0

[NitroS]

is it implied that meilyn killed larelle? or could she still be alive just not used again?

Merean Redhill, do you mean? Yes, that would be my guess, but we don't know for sure. Either way, as you say, Larelle hasn't turned out anywhere since.

 

Or possibly she was also Black and hunting the Dragon, and that is why she hasn't turned up--because like Moiraine she was out in the world hunting for Rand.

 

I wonder if this might not have been the subject matter of the Moiraine prequel. We know it dealt with why Moiraine was able to get to the Two Rivers 'just in time' [indicating there was a specific reason of significant enough drama for a story]. We also know she thought she had 'stolen a march on the Shadow'.

 

Maybe Larelle resurfaced. Moiraine investigated due to her long absence and connection to Merean, providing the drama (hunting the Black Ajah), and in the process Larelle gave Moiraine a clue that they themselve didn't understand--for instance the story of a Second Captain of the Companions finding a child, or something like that. Larelle and the Black Ajah go off investigating in Illian, but Moiraine through her own investigations already knows the Second Captain was from Emmond's Field.... or some such.

 

Moiraine gets the right clue to get her there just in time, and thinks she's stolen a march on the shadow, and some intrigue to make a story....

 

 

wow i never thought of that or considered that she would have been used for the 3rd prequel that would make a lot of sense.

 

Well we also know that moiraine was in the tower as late as 3 years before finding rand in the two rivers, and verin did say she had some clues that siuan moiraine were looking for rand. Im not upto date with interviews etc with harriet and brandon if the last 2 prequels arent written has it been confirmed that we will get the information on the plot for the 3rd prequel/ why moiraine headed to the two rivers in the encyclopedia?

Edited August 21, 2012 by NitroS

[MountaineerWV]

I was reading the thread asking if there are any Aiel among the HotH and it sparked a question.

 

Has there been any Heroes of the Horn born outside of Randland? Has there ever been a Hero born in Seanchan, Shara, the Aiel Waste, or the Island of Madmen?

 

I don't want this to devolve into a conversation on who among current characters are Heros, so characters present in the books do not count.

[thisguy]

I was reading the thread asking if there are any Aiel among the HotH and it sparked a question.

 

Has there been any Heroes of the Horn born outside of Randland? Has there ever been a Hero born in Seanchan, Shara, the Aiel Waste, or the Island of Madmen?

 

I don't want this to devolve into a conversation on who among current characters are Heros, so characters present in the books do not count.

None that we know of. That was sort of my point. You'd think an Aiel garbbed in cadinsor and the rest would have stood out. Or someone garbed as a Seanchen soldier. There are only just over a hundred heros. Doesn't mean they weren't represented - RJ may have just overlooked it or any other explanation. Just found it odd.

[Suttree]

is it implied that meilyn killed larelle? or could she still be alive just not used again?

Merean Redhill, do you mean? Yes, that would be my guess, but we don't know for sure. Either way, as you say, Larelle hasn't turned out anywhere since.

 

Or possibly she was also Black and hunting the Dragon, and that is why she hasn't turned up--because like Moiraine she was out in the world hunting for Rand.

 

I wonder if this might not have been the subject matter of the Moiraine prequel. We know it dealt with why Moiraine was able to get to the Two Rivers 'just in time' [indicating there was a specific reason of significant enough drama for a story]. We also know she thought she had 'stolen a march on the Shadow'.

 

Maybe Larelle resurfaced. Moiraine investigated due to her long absence and connection to Merean, providing the drama (hunting the Black Ajah), and in the process Larelle gave Moiraine a clue that they themselve didn't understand--for instance the story of a Second Captain of the Companions finding a child, or something like that. Larelle and the Black Ajah go off investigating in Illian, but Moiraine through her own investigations already knows the Second Captain was from Emmond's Field.... or some such.

 

Moiraine gets the right clue to get her there just in time, and thinks she's stolen a march on the shadow, and some intrigue to make a story....

 

Good man Luckers, I like it!

[Sharaman]

HoTH are born multiple times and in their TAR presence, they're probably represented as the stereotype.

Like for example, Hawkwing would have been born multiple times ( hesays as much) and presumably he didn't carry Justice and what not in every incarnation.

So if the most famous HotH stereotype for a respective soul is a WoTland one, they'll look like Wotlanders.

The WoTlanders wouldn't know about Seanchan / Shara incarnations f there were any.

[Terez]

Do you mean archetype? I have never really liked that theory much because there would still be some differences from Age to Age, and they clearly look like their recent (perhaps most archetypical) incarnation.

[nolirion]

Something just surge through my mind , If Perrin is caught in an horn-of-Valere event again , could he use is abilities the same ways as when he dream?

[Terez]

Probably not.

[Vardar]

Things I come across in my readings...

 

Sutt or Luck, we were debating about compelling in another thread, and how you cannot be compelled if you're holding the source. Do you recall what thread that was?

[yoniy0]

Sutt or Luck, we were debating about compelling in another thread, and how you cannot be compelled if you're holding the source. Do you recall what thread that was?

I'm neither, but I thought to mention that only men enjoy this protection. We've seen Graendal successfully use Compulsion on Cyndane and Moghedien while the two were embracing saidar.

[Vardar]

Sutt or Luck, we were debating about compelling in another thread, and how you cannot be compelled if you're holding the source. Do you recall what thread that was?

I'm neither, but I thought to mention that only men enjoy this protection. We've seen Graendal successfully use Compulsion on Cyndane and Moghedien while the two were embracing saidar.

 

Ahh ok. Thanks. Yea, Elayne was compelled as well while embracing. I was confused.

[Vardar]

If there was no violence in AOL, pre-bore, then what were the Daishan known for? I mean, what made the Way of the Leaf so special in a world with little or no violence?

[thisguy]

If there was no violence in AOL, pre-bore, then what were the Daishan known for? I mean, what made the Way of the Leaf so special in a world with little or no violence?

There was no war but that doesn't mean there was no violence. Maybe they just policed things very well. There's that scene where Rand walks through the ter'angreal where some man bumps into one of the Aiel and starts telling him to watch where he's walking until he realizes he's Aiel. My take when I read it was of the man being aggressive.

[thisguy]

If there was no violence in AOL, pre-bore, then what were the Daishan known for? I mean, what made the Way of the Leaf so special in a world with little or no violence?

There was no war but that doesn't mean there was no violence. Maybe they just policed things very well. There's that scene where Rand walks through the ter'angreal where some man bumps into one of the Aiel and starts telling him to watch where he's walking until he realizes he's Aiel. My take when I read it was of the man being aggressive.

If there was no violence in AOL, pre-bore, then what were the Daishan known for? I mean, what made the Way of the Leaf so special in a world with little or no violence?

One other thing that just came to me:

We don't know when the Aiel took on the Way of the Leaf - it may have been after the DO was released and fighting began. They may have taken it on for the good of society as they seem to be the only humans involved with growing crops and such.