Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Durinax]

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

I think masema wasn't such a huge fool to not know everything about Perrin that there is to know before plotting against him. The Aes Sedai travelling with Perrin, at least one is BA (and possibly the shiny dragon, since the response to a question was (in effect), why do you think 'he' was male). And they where meeting with Masema, who hates the OP except when the 'dragon' uses it

[Vardar]

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

 

I'm guessing mistake. Even if he'd seen her at a distance in Malden its weird.

 

Wait. Umm Wasn't Masesam a borderlander? And Faile from another borderlander royal family. I'm fairly certain if there aren't portraits of her around, he's been to that kingdom and perhaps seen her in a cermony or something. She was cousin to the queen and 3rd in line for the throne.

[FanoLan]

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

 

I'm guessing mistake. Even if he'd seen her at a distance in Malden its weird.

 

Aram could have easily described her to him. And her description (and that of Alliandre and other) could have been distributed prior to the battle so that she won't be killed by "friendly fire."

 

 

Have to think all of the gai'shan were to be considered off-limits to Perrin's forces. Perrin has not revealed any skill at drawing or sketching, so unless one of the channelers saidared or saidined drawings for him...... It's possible an oral description would prove sufficient to prompt Masema's recognition, I guess.

[FanoLan]

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

I think masema wasn't such a huge fool to not know everything about Perrin that there is to know before plotting against him. The Aes Sedai travelling with Perrin, at least one is BA (and possibly the shiny dragon, since the response to a question was (in effect), why do you think 'he' was male). And they where meeting with Masema, who hates the OP except when the 'dragon' uses it

 

Not really sure of the point you are making in this post. Undoubtedly, Masema would know the name and that "Faile" is Perrin's wife. Are you suggesting Masema himself went and spied Perrin's camp before their first personal encounter? If not, how would any of that impact Masema's ability to instantly recognize the woman stepping into the clearing as Perrin's wife?

 

I hope you are on to something, I want it to be a clue as to Masema's behind the scenes wheelings and dealings.

[Durinax]

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

I think masema wasn't such a huge fool to not know everything about Perrin that there is to know before plotting against him. The Aes Sedai travelling with Perrin, at least one is BA (and possibly the shiny dragon, since the response to a question was (in effect), why do you think 'he' was male). And they where meeting with Masema, who hates the OP except when the 'dragon' uses it

 

Not really sure of the point you are making in this post. Undoubtedly, Masema would know the name and that "Faile" is Perrin's wife. Are you suggesting Masema himself went and spied Perrin's camp before their first personal encounter? If not, how would any of that impact Masema's ability to instantly recognize the woman stepping into the clearing as Perrin's wife?

 

I hope you are on to something, I want it to be a clue as to Masema's behind the scenes wheelings and dealings.

my point is that the AS kept going into masemas camp to meet with him, and that they could have informed him of stuff like that, in effect being masemas handlers

[FanoLan]

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

 

I'm guessing mistake. Even if he'd seen her at a distance in Malden its weird.

 

Wait. Umm Wasn't Masesam a borderlander? And Faile from another borderlander royal family. I'm fairly certain if there aren't portraits of her around, he's been to that kingdom and perhaps seen her in a cermony or something. She was cousin to the queen and 3rd in line for the throne.

 

Masesam (sic) was Shienaran. A run of the mill soldier of the most eastern of the Borderlands. The only clues as to his prior service I can recall relate to skirmishes against the Aiel in the Eastern Marches. Is there something in the text to support your conjecture that he has been to Saldea, the westernmost of the Borderlands?

 

Faile's recollections on her youth do not indicate she has travelled to Shienar. Indeed, from her thoughts she was being trained to as head of the Bashere household in terms of administering the estate, not preparing for life as a courtesan. Her departure and subsequent swearing as a Hunter was initially motivated because until that point in her life she was fulfilling her predetermined role unwaveringly and succesfully, as expected of her. No mention of accross the continent travel for "some ceremony or something."

 

Portraits of her around? Really? Care to provide the slightest scrap of support for the contention that personal portraits of non-Monarchs are prevalent in the series? Heck, even portraits of Monarchs have never been mentioned outside their own palace. Oh wait, how could I have forgotten her Facebook page? Silly me.

[FanoLan]

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

I think masema wasn't such a huge fool to not know everything about Perrin that there is to know before plotting against him. The Aes Sedai travelling with Perrin, at least one is BA (and possibly the shiny dragon, since the response to a question was (in effect), why do you think 'he' was male). And they where meeting with Masema, who hates the OP except when the 'dragon' uses it

 

Not really sure of the point you are making in this post. Undoubtedly, Masema would know the name and that "Faile" is Perrin's wife. Are you suggesting Masema himself went and spied Perrin's camp before their first personal encounter? If not, how would any of that impact Masema's ability to instantly recognize the woman stepping into the clearing as Perrin's wife?

 

I hope you are on to something, I want it to be a clue as to Masema's behind the scenes wheelings and dealings.

my point is that the AS kept going into masemas camp to meet with him, and that they could have informed him of stuff like that, in effect being masemas handlers

 

Informed him of stuff like what?

[Vardar]

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

 

I'm guessing mistake. Even if he'd seen her at a distance in Malden its weird.

 

Wait. Umm Wasn't Masesam a borderlander? And Faile from another borderlander royal family. I'm fairly certain if there aren't portraits of her around, he's been to that kingdom and perhaps seen her in a cermony or something. She was cousin to the queen and 3rd in line for the throne.

 

Masesam (sic) was Shienaran. A run of the mill soldier of the most eastern of the Borderlands. The only clues as to his prior service I can recall relate to skirmishes against the Aiel in the Eastern Marches. Is there something in the text to support your conjecture that he has been to Saldea, the westernmost of the Borderlands?

 

Faile's recollections on her youth do not indicate she has travelled to Shienar. Indeed, from her thoughts she was being trained to as head of the Bashere household in terms of administering the estate, not preparing for life as a courtesan. Her departure and subsequent swearing as a Hunter was initially motivated because until that point in her life she was fulfilling her predetermined role unwaveringly and succesfully, as expected of her. No mention of accross the continent travel for "some ceremony or something."

 

Portraits of her around? Really? Care to provide the slightest scrap of support for the contention that personal portraits of non-Monarchs are prevalent in the series? Heck, even portraits of Monarchs have never been mentioned outside their own palace. Oh wait, how could I have forgotten her Facebook page? Silly me.

 

That was a whole lot of sarcasm in one post.

 

Anyway, from her own recollections we know before her brothers died she wasn't trained in running the household. Actually portraits aren't mentioned in the stories much, aside from the Queen portraits and such, but that doesn't mean we assume they aren't there. We do know the Borderlander rulers were close, as seen in the last few books, intermarriage was common, thus it can easily be assumed they traveled around a lot for functions. Masema was just a soldier yes, but he close personal access to his Lord and was probably a member of his retinue when he traveled abroad. In other words, it's not a real stretch of the imagination to figure out how he would know her face.

 

Hell, look at how many people knew a description of Amara (The Partarch or what not of Tarbonar). And that was just from a description. Morgase managed to know what she looked like.

[FanoLan]

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

 

I'm guessing mistake. Even if he'd seen her at a distance in Malden its weird.

 

Wait. Umm Wasn't Masesam a borderlander? And Faile from another borderlander royal family. I'm fairly certain if there aren't portraits of her around, he's been to that kingdom and perhaps seen her in a cermony or something. She was cousin to the queen and 3rd in line for the throne.

 

Masesam (sic) was Shienaran. A run of the mill soldier of the most eastern of the Borderlands. The only clues as to his prior service I can recall relate to skirmishes against the Aiel in the Eastern Marches. Is there something in the text to support your conjecture that he has been to Saldea, the westernmost of the Borderlands?

 

Faile's recollections on her youth do not indicate she has travelled to Shienar. Indeed, from her thoughts she was being trained to as head of the Bashere household in terms of administering the estate, not preparing for life as a courtesan. Her departure and subsequent swearing as a Hunter was initially motivated because until that point in her life she was fulfilling her predetermined role unwaveringly and succesfully, as expected of her. No mention of accross the continent travel for "some ceremony or something."

 

Portraits of her around? Really? Care to provide the slightest scrap of support for the contention that personal portraits of non-Monarchs are prevalent in the series? Heck, even portraits of Monarchs have never been mentioned outside their own palace. Oh wait, how could I have forgotten her Facebook page? Silly me.

 

That was a whole lot of sarcasm in one post.

 

Anyway, from her own recollections we know before her brothers died she wasn't trained in running the household. Actually portraits aren't mentioned in the stories much, aside from the Queen portraits and such, but that doesn't mean we assume they aren't there. We do know the Borderlander rulers were close, as seen in the last few books, intermarriage was common, thus it can easily be assumed they traveled around a lot for functions. Masema was just a soldier yes, but he close personal access to his Lord and was probably a member of his retinue when he traveled abroad. In other words, it's not a real stretch of the imagination to figure out how he would know her face.

 

Hell, look at how many people knew a description of Amara (The Partarch or what not of Tarbonar). And that was just from a description. Morgase managed to know what she looked like.

 

Funny, most of that post was not sarcastic, thought I did well at reining in the worst.

 

Faile was like 16 when she left Saldea, she didn't do much of anything before her brothers died. No one that would be privy to such knowledge has mentioned anything to support she was considered for potential marriage before leaving Saldea. Given the gist of her (and Perrin's) interaction with Davram and Deira in Caemlyn it would have been raised. That whole interaction between the two Bashere women was because Faile had not previously been determined old enough to marry so it's not like her parents were parading her from World's End to Tarwin's Gap trying to find a mate.

 

The examples of political intermarriage between Borderland ruler families seem to stand out as exceptions rather than the rule. Ethenielle thinks of the pairings distinctly, not in a way that infers they were commonplace. Before Travelling had been rediscovered, the geographic realities of the Borderlands likely inhibited much travelling about for purely functionary purposes. All of which, while restrictive to the possibilites we can imagine as probabilities within the WoT world, are really beside the point as to whether Masema would have personally encountered Faile.

 

Which Lord did Masema have close personal contact with in the series? Not Agelmar. Not Ingtar. Certainly not Easar. There is not any support in the books for this conjecture, none.

 

How many people did know a description of Amara (The Partarch or what not of Tarbonar) (sic)? Other than Morgase can you give an example from the books of someone who recognizes Amathera from a description? I don't think the text supports your contention for any character in the books at all, much less another example for Amathera. Perhaps you are conflating the Aiel questioning Galina regarding Alliandre's identity with someone else recognizing Amathera from a description. Or maybe when Berelain is spoken about by Cadsuane. It's easy to get confused if you can't keep the names straight.

 

Not really comparable circumstances regadless. Morgase, as Queen of Andor, was probably well informed regarding the members of potential ruling families when compared to a random soldier in the Shienarin heavy cavalry. Morgase's recognition of Amathera was not instantaneous either and required several prompts by Suroth, including mentions of her new name (Thera) with an emphasis designed to draw Morgase's attention.

 

You can choose to imagine anything you want. When you choose to address the message board and make spurious claims that lack support from the books, sarcasm is not the worst response you might expect.

[Suttree]

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

I think masema wasn't such a huge fool to not know everything about Perrin that there is to know before plotting against him. The Aes Sedai travelling with Perrin, at least one is BA (and possibly the shiny dragon, since the response to a question was (in effect), why do you think 'he' was male). And they where meeting with Masema, who hates the OP except when the 'dragon' uses it

 

Not really sure of the point you are making in this post. Undoubtedly, Masema would know the name and that "Faile" is Perrin's wife. Are you suggesting Masema himself went and spied Perrin's camp before their first personal encounter? If not, how would any of that impact Masema's ability to instantly recognize the woman stepping into the clearing as Perrin's wife?

 

I hope you are on to something, I want it to be a clue as to Masema's behind the scenes wheelings and dealings.

my point is that the AS kept going into masemas camp to meet with him, and that they could have informed him of stuff like that, in effect being masemas handlers

 

Informed him of stuff like what?

 

Her description. After all we have seen forsaken channel images at the BA social correct?

[FanoLan]

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

I think masema wasn't such a huge fool to not know everything about Perrin that there is to know before plotting against him. The Aes Sedai travelling with Perrin, at least one is BA (and possibly the shiny dragon, since the response to a question was (in effect), why do you think 'he' was male). And they where meeting with Masema, who hates the OP except when the 'dragon' uses it

 

Not really sure of the point you are making in this post. Undoubtedly, Masema would know the name and that "Faile" is Perrin's wife. Are you suggesting Masema himself went and spied Perrin's camp before their first personal encounter? If not, how would any of that impact Masema's ability to instantly recognize the woman stepping into the clearing as Perrin's wife?

 

I hope you are on to something, I want it to be a clue as to Masema's behind the scenes wheelings and dealings.

my point is that the AS kept going into masemas camp to meet with him, and that they could have informed him of stuff like that, in effect being masemas handlers

 

Informed him of stuff like what?

 

Her description. After all we have seen forsaken channel images at the BA social correct?

 

So are you contending one of the Forsaken met with Masema and channeled an image of Faile for him to recognize? Or that one of the AS is capable thereof and did so on direction of said Forsaken? I know we've seen Ishy-din manifest their image in T'a'R to other friends of the dark and more recently present such an image to other Chosen in his palace in the Blight.

 

Could have been part of a Forsaken plot to weaken Perrin, in which case Masema's recognition is a clue and not a mistake. Hope we get some more clarity in AMoL.

[Vardar]

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

 

I'm guessing mistake. Even if he'd seen her at a distance in Malden its weird.

 

Wait. Umm Wasn't Masesam a borderlander? And Faile from another borderlander royal family. I'm fairly certain if there aren't portraits of her around, he's been to that kingdom and perhaps seen her in a cermony or something. She was cousin to the queen and 3rd in line for the throne.

 

Masesam (sic) was Shienaran. A run of the mill soldier of the most eastern of the Borderlands. The only clues as to his prior service I can recall relate to skirmishes against the Aiel in the Eastern Marches. Is there something in the text to support your conjecture that he has been to Saldea, the westernmost of the Borderlands?

 

Faile's recollections on her youth do not indicate she has travelled to Shienar. Indeed, from her thoughts she was being trained to as head of the Bashere household in terms of administering the estate, not preparing for life as a courtesan. Her departure and subsequent swearing as a Hunter was initially motivated because until that point in her life she was fulfilling her predetermined role unwaveringly and succesfully, as expected of her. No mention of accross the continent travel for "some ceremony or something."

 

Portraits of her around? Really? Care to provide the slightest scrap of support for the contention that personal portraits of non-Monarchs are prevalent in the series? Heck, even portraits of Monarchs have never been mentioned outside their own palace. Oh wait, how could I have forgotten her Facebook page? Silly me.

 

That was a whole lot of sarcasm in one post.

 

Anyway, from her own recollections we know before her brothers died she wasn't trained in running the household. Actually portraits aren't mentioned in the stories much, aside from the Queen portraits and such, but that doesn't mean we assume they aren't there. We do know the Borderlander rulers were close, as seen in the last few books, intermarriage was common, thus it can easily be assumed they traveled around a lot for functions. Masema was just a soldier yes, but he close personal access to his Lord and was probably a member of his retinue when he traveled abroad. In other words, it's not a real stretch of the imagination to figure out how he would know her face.

 

Hell, look at how many people knew a description of Amara (The Partarch or what not of Tarbonar). And that was just from a description. Morgase managed to know what she looked like.

 

Funny, most of that post was not sarcastic, thought I did well at reining in the worst.

 

Faile was like 16 when she left Saldea, she didn't do much of anything before her brothers died. No one that would be privy to such knowledge has mentioned anything to support she was considered for potential marriage before leaving Saldea. Given the gist of her (and Perrin's) interaction with Davram and Deira in Caemlyn it would have been raised. That whole interaction between the two Bashere women was because Faile had not previously been determined old enough to marry so it's not like her parents were parading her from World's End to Tarwin's Gap trying to find a mate.

 

The examples of political intermarriage between Borderland ruler families seem to stand out as exceptions rather than the rule. Ethenielle thinks of the pairings distinctly, not in a way that infers they were commonplace. Before Travelling had been rediscovered, the geographic realities of the Borderlands likely inhibited much travelling about for purely functionary purposes. All of which, while restrictive to the possibilites we can imagine as probabilities within the WoT world, are really beside the point as to whether Masema would have personally encountered Faile.

 

Which Lord did Masema have close personal contact with in the series? Not Agelmar. Not Ingtar. Certainly not Easar. There is not any support in the books for this conjecture, none.

 

How many people did know a description of Amara (The Partarch or what not of Tarbonar) (sic)? Other than Morgase can you give an example from the books of someone who recognizes Amathera from a description? I don't think the text supports your contention for any character in the books at all, much less another example for Amathera. Perhaps you are conflating the Aiel questioning Galina regarding Alliandre's identity with someone else recognizing Amathera from a description. Or maybe when Berelain is spoken about by Cadsuane. It's easy to get confused if you can't keep the names straight.

 

Not really comparable circumstances regadless. Morgase, as Queen of Andor, was probably well informed regarding the members of potential ruling families when compared to a random soldier in the Shienarin heavy cavalry. Morgase's recognition of Amathera was not instantaneous either and required several prompts by Suroth, including mentions of her new name (Thera) with an emphasis designed to draw Morgase's attention.

 

You can choose to imagine anything you want. When you choose to address the message board and make spurious claims that lack support from the books, sarcasm is not the worst response you might expect.

 

I was tossing out my idea to a question asked.

 

Exceptions rather than the rule? She listed quite a few examples, and what else have we to go off? Nothing.In the 1st book we know the Borderlanders frequently send aid to each other, it was stated, and restated in later books. My point was, sometimes the simpilest explaination is the best. It's not like he was from the Two Rivers or something.

And where did you get that she left home at 16? I thought she was near the same age as the boys.

 

Also, when I post a my opinion or thoughts on the board, I expect the same courtsey that I give to people. If you choose ot behave like an ass, that's your choice, but don't pretend it's commonplace to excuse your own ignorance.

 

Good day sir.

Edited July 20, 2012 by Vardarmus

[Maleshub]

We know for a fact that "steel" has been discovered in Randland. Perrin works steel; and Tairan steel is considered the best in Randland. The question(s):

- Is steel used in making cannons? And is it better than bronze?

- Why didn't Aludra make her Dragons from steel?

Edited July 20, 2012 by Theodril

[Sharaman]

Just a thought.

Saldeans have one unusual racial feature -"uptilted" eyes.

Another thought. Borderlanders fight and trade together. across all the kingdoms

Masema may have seen a fair number of random Saldeans.

(Even Flynn who isn''t Borderland has met a few "in his time")

He may even know the accent - think of the PoV of the Malkieri jeweller - there are differences in Borderlander accents

He's very likely to have seen them if he fought at the Bloodsnow and he's definitely old enough to have been there.

He would know that Perrin is married to a Saldean.

Now he sees a Saldean woman (*uptilted eyes, accent) in command of a bunch of Two Rivers bowmen (and yes, he does know TR bowmen for sure)

He jumps to a conclusion which happens to be correct.

[Suttree]

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

I think masema wasn't such a huge fool to not know everything about Perrin that there is to know before plotting against him. The Aes Sedai travelling with Perrin, at least one is BA (and possibly the shiny dragon, since the response to a question was (in effect), why do you think 'he' was male). And they where meeting with Masema, who hates the OP except when the 'dragon' uses it

 

Not really sure of the point you are making in this post. Undoubtedly, Masema would know the name and that "Faile" is Perrin's wife. Are you suggesting Masema himself went and spied Perrin's camp before their first personal encounter? If not, how would any of that impact Masema's ability to instantly recognize the woman stepping into the clearing as Perrin's wife?

 

I hope you are on to something, I want it to be a clue as to Masema's behind the scenes wheelings and dealings.

my point is that the AS kept going into masemas camp to meet with him, and that they could have informed him of stuff like that, in effect being masemas handlers

 

Informed him of stuff like what?

 

Her description. After all we have seen forsaken channel images at the BA social correct?

 

So are you contending one of the Forsaken met with Masema and channeled an image of Faile for him to recognize? Or that one of the AS is capable thereof and did so on direction of said Forsaken? I know we've seen Ishy-din manifest their image in T'a'R to other friends of the dark and more recently present such an image to other Chosen in his palace in the Blight.

 

Could have been part of a Forsaken plot to weaken Perrin, in which case Masema's recognition is a clue and not a mistake. Hope we get some more clarity in AMoL.

 

Yeah who ever was posing(frosaken or BA) as the "shiny" dragon to Masema very well could have done so,

[FanoLan]

Just a thought.

Saldeans have one unusual racial feature -"uptilted" eyes.

Another thought. Borderlanders fight and trade together. across all the kingdoms

Masema may have seen a fair number of random Saldeans.

(Even Flynn who isn''t Borderland has met a few "in his time")

He may even know the accent - think of the PoV of the Malkieri jeweller - there are differences in Borderlander accents

He's very likely to have seen them if he fought at the Bloodsnow and he's definitely old enough to have been there.

He would know that Perrin is married to a Saldean.

Now he sees a Saldean woman (*uptilted eyes, accent) in command of a bunch of Two Rivers bowmen (and yes, he does know TR bowmen for sure)

He jumps to a conclusion which happens to be correct.

 

Nice, He hadn't yet seen the bowmen IIRC, but the rest presents a pretty good argument as long as he does know she is Saldean. Probable that he does but not explicit. Still pretty swift for an accurate deduction by a veritable madman. My hopes for an elaborate backstory on this one are dwindling.

[Maleshub]

Just a thought.

Saldeans have one unusual racial feature -"uptilted" eyes.

Another thought. Borderlanders fight and trade together. across all the kingdoms

Masema may have seen a fair number of random Saldeans.

(Even Flynn who isn''t Borderland has met a few "in his time")

He may even know the accent - think of the PoV of the Malkieri jeweller - there are differences in Borderlander accents

He's very likely to have seen them if he fought at the Bloodsnow and he's definitely old enough to have been there.

He would know that Perrin is married to a Saldean.

Now he sees a Saldean woman (*uptilted eyes, accent) in command of a bunch of Two Rivers bowmen (and yes, he does know TR bowmen for sure)

He jumps to a conclusion which happens to be correct.

 

Nice, He hadn't yet seen the bowmen IIRC, but the rest presents a pretty good argument as long as he does know she is Saldean. Probable that he does but not explicit. Still pretty swift for an accurate deduction by a veritable madman. My hopes for an elaborate backstory on this one are dwindling.

 

With all the time Aram spent with Masema, and knowing that Aram all but worships her, wouldn't they have found a few minutes to talk about Faile?

[FanoLan]

Just a thought.

Saldeans have one unusual racial feature -"uptilted" eyes.

Another thought. Borderlanders fight and trade together. across all the kingdoms

Masema may have seen a fair number of random Saldeans.

(Even Flynn who isn''t Borderland has met a few "in his time")

He may even know the accent - think of the PoV of the Malkieri jeweller - there are differences in Borderlander accents

He's very likely to have seen them if he fought at the Bloodsnow and he's definitely old enough to have been there.

He would know that Perrin is married to a Saldean.

Now he sees a Saldean woman (*uptilted eyes, accent) in command of a bunch of Two Rivers bowmen (and yes, he does know TR bowmen for sure)

He jumps to a conclusion which happens to be correct.

 

Nice, He hadn't yet seen the bowmen IIRC, but the rest presents a pretty good argument as long as he does know she is Saldean. Probable that he does but not explicit. Still pretty swift for an accurate deduction by a veritable madman. My hopes for an elaborate backstory on this one are dwindling.

 

With all the time Aram spent with Masema, and knowing that Aram all but worships her, wouldn't they have found a few minutes to talk about Faile?

 

Probably, but I doubt the Prophet would have wanted to be to forward and risk Aram choosing between his loyalties. It's one thing to say "hey, Yelloweyes is eeeevillll and you must rescue the fair maiden" compared to "what nationality is the fair maiden and how might I recognize her at first sight?" Agreed he probably knew she was Saldean and likely recognized the figure in the meadow as a Saldean at first sight, but still a little wiggle room .... right?

[Sharaman]

Just a thought.

Saldeans have one unusual racial feature -"uptilted" eyes.

Another thought. Borderlanders fight and trade together. across all the kingdoms

Masema may have seen a fair number of random Saldeans.

(Even Flynn who isn''t Borderland has met a few "in his time")

He may even know the accent - think of the PoV of the Malkieri jeweller - there are differences in Borderlander accents

He's very likely to have seen them if he fought at the Bloodsnow and he's definitely old enough to have been there.

He would know that Perrin is married to a Saldean.

Now he sees a Saldean woman (*uptilted eyes, accent) in command of a bunch of Two Rivers bowmen (and yes, he does know TR bowmen for sure)

He jumps to a conclusion which happens to be correct.

 

Nice, He hadn't yet seen the bowmen IIRC, but the rest presents a pretty good argument as long as he does know she is Saldean. Probable that he does but not explicit. Still pretty swift for an accurate deduction by a veritable madman. My hopes for an elaborate backstory on this one are dwindling.

 

TGH onwards, and at Malden itself, Masema's seen the TR boys using the longbow multiple times. He's even commented on it iirc in TGH.

Also he's nuts - not stupid.

[FanoLan]

Just a thought.

Saldeans have one unusual racial feature -"uptilted" eyes.

Another thought. Borderlanders fight and trade together. across all the kingdoms

Masema may have seen a fair number of random Saldeans.

(Even Flynn who isn''t Borderland has met a few "in his time")

He may even know the accent - think of the PoV of the Malkieri jeweller - there are differences in Borderlander accents

He's very likely to have seen them if he fought at the Bloodsnow and he's definitely old enough to have been there.

He would know that Perrin is married to a Saldean.

Now he sees a Saldean woman (*uptilted eyes, accent) in command of a bunch of Two Rivers bowmen (and yes, he does know TR bowmen for sure)

He jumps to a conclusion which happens to be correct.

 

Nice, He hadn't yet seen the bowmen IIRC, but the rest presents a pretty good argument as long as he does know she is Saldean. Probable that he does but not explicit. Still pretty swift for an accurate deduction by a veritable madman. My hopes for an elaborate backstory on this one are dwindling.

 

TGH onwards, and at Malden itself, Masema's seen the TR boys using the longbow multiple times. He's even commented on it iirc in TGH.

Also he's nuts - not stupid.

 

Yeah I know he has seen the TR longbowmen previously, but during the scene when he's finally put to rest, he had not seen anyone but Faile when he called out her name. Masema was surprised when his followers pulled up short and then he saw the bowmen back in the trees. When he called her name, he had only seen her.

 

Also, do we know TR men were involved with that execution or was it only Cha Faile?

[Terez]

We're not even sure they didn't see each other after the rescue, for chrissake. Masema disappeared that night; nothing to say what he was doing before then. But even if they didn't meet, Masema's words:

 

The Prophet scanned the dim afternoon clearing, searching for the one who had spoken. He found her standing on a little outcrop of rock a short distance away, a woman with a prominent Saldaean nose, slightly tilted eyes, and shoulder-length black hair. She wore green, with skirts divided for riding, her arms folded in front of her.

 

Faile Aybara, wife of the Shadowspawn, Perrin Aybara.

 

The wording suggests that he deduced her identity from her appearance, not that he recognized her.

[Sharaman]

Exactly what I was saying. He jumped to the right conclusions

[jwood01]

On LoC in my pre-aMoL reread of the series. Taim mentions that he has been in the blight before. How normal is it for a Saldean to have been in the blight? Probably pretty normal for soldiers, but I don't think Taim was a soldier prior to being a false dragon. Why didn't Rand question this? Was he just distracted by LTT's voice telling him to kill Taim?

[FarShainMael]

We know for a fact that "steel" has been discovered in Randland. Perrin works steel; and Tairan steel is considered the best in Randland. The question(s):

- Is steel used in making cannons? And is it better than bronze?

- Why didn't Aludra make her Dragons from steel?

 

Some thoughts on metallurgy..

 

About making cannons. The quickest way is to cast them by pouring molten metal into a mould. You could start with a solid cylinder and bore a hole in it but that takes time and energy, especially if the metal is hard.

 

Bronze can be cast readily, and is strong enough to handle the explosive forces in a cannon, though it can be brittle. Steel is a problem. The word covers iron/carbon mixtures with varying proportions of carbon. The more carbon, the more brittle the metal, and it's not usually called steel. The basic form produced by heating iron oxide ore with coke (pure form of coal) to remove the oxygen leaves a metal with a lot of carbon, at least 2%. It can be cast easily, hence it is called cast iron, but it is very brittle indeed and a cast iron cannon would shatter with unfortunate results. Reducing the amount of carbon (by blowing air through the molten metal in a blast furnace) produces a stronger alloy, steel, but it is much more difficult to cast. You could build a cannon out of steel with more sophisticated manufacturiung methods, but I don't think Randland is quite up to that level yet.

[Sharaman]

Bronze is a much more easily and widely assimilated technology - all it takes is copper, tin and charcoal.Historically bronze was around for millennia pretty much before steel. I'm guessing Aludra can't get steelmakers in the kind of quantity/ quality she requires whereas she knows she can get bronze and it serves her purpose.