Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[sandoz12]

Doing a re-read and noticed this in WH Ch. 25 Bonds Min says "You listen to me Rand al'Thor. I won't let you die. And if you manage it just to spite me, I'll follow you and bring you back."

 

Could this be fore-shadowing of how Rand will die and yet live again? I guess this quote has been covered elsewhere and if so sorry for bringing it up but just found it so interesting when I read it that I wanted to know others' thoughts on it.

Edited April 30, 2011 by sandoz12

[Terez]

Doing a re-read of the series and am currently on TDR. At one point in Ch 48 "following the Craft" Egwene mentions a dream in which: "Rand in that dry,dusty chamber again, with those small creatures settling into his skin."

 

I was wondering if anyone knew what these creatures are or if they were previously mentioned (as is implied by the wording)

They are dragons, and they represent his trek through the crystal columns at Rhuidean.

 

Doing a re-read and noticed this in WH Ch. 25 Bonds Min says "You listen to me Rand al'Thor. I won't let you die. And if you manage it just to spite me, I'll follow you and bring you back."

 

Could this be fore-shadowing of how Rand will die and yet live again? I guess this quote has been covered elsewhere and if so sorry for bringing it up but just found it so interesting when I read it that I wanted to know others' thoughts on it.

Yes. It's one of the foreshadowings I noted in my theory on the subject (which is an old theory, but this is part of the evidence I gathered for it).

[sandoz12]

 

Doing a re-read and noticed this in WH Ch. 25 Bonds Min says "You listen to me Rand al'Thor. I won't let you die. And if you manage it just to spite me, I'll follow you and bring you back."

 

Could this be fore-shadowing of how Rand will die and yet live again? I guess this quote has been covered elsewhere and if so sorry for bringing it up but just found it so interesting when I read it that I wanted to know others' thoughts on it.

Yes. It's one of the foreshadowings I noted in my theory on the subject (which is an old theory, but this is part of the evidence I gathered for it).

Thanks for that. Hadn't seen that document before. I definitely would subscribe to 4.4 (Rand will die and be resurrected through the same process as Moghedien did to Birgitte).

[Puny]

Did Egwene ever meet her toh towards Rhuarc Melaine and Aviendha? She had toh for lying to them, saying she was Aes Sedai when she was only Accepted.

[yoniy0]

Did Egwene ever meet her toh towards Rhuarc Melaine and Aviendha? She had toh for lying to them, saying she was Aes Sedai when she was only Accepted.

I seem to recall it was forfeited. Something about Melaine's pregnancy (at least regarding the first two).

[herid]

Did Egwene ever meet her toh towards Rhuarc Melaine and Aviendha? She had toh for lying to them, saying she was Aes Sedai when she was only Accepted.

to Melaine, yes. rather, Melaine was too happy about being pregnant and she said that there was no toh (LoC, Ch 52). To Rhuarc, no. I'm still hoping he'll call it in at FOM and give Egwene a much needed dose of humility.

[Puny]

Did Egwene ever meet her toh towards Rhuarc Melaine and Aviendha? She had toh for lying to them, saying she was Aes Sedai when she was only Accepted.

to Melaine, yes. rather, Melaine was too happy about being pregnant and she said that there was no toh (LoC, Ch 52). To Rhuarc, no. I'm still hoping he'll call it in at FOM and give Egwene a much needed dose of humility.

 

I hope he will call it in too, but I have a feeling Brandon has forgotten about that... not every thing can be resolved. Thanks for the answer

[Thorgan]

When/where/how does Verin learn travelling?

[Thaed]

Thanks Terez. Im not sure why i thought they were the herons but that didnt make sense for several reasons

 

Continnuin my TDR re-read. Theres a point while on the drifter that Elayne agrees with something Nynaeve says and Egwene essentially thinks " elayne agrees with Nynaeve too much.' and then goes on to admit that its usually when Nyn is right. When did Egwene adopt this attitude here? Did she and nyn disagree on a point i missed.

[Feral]

Thanks Terez. Im not sure why i thought they were the herons but that didnt make sense for several reasons

 

Continnuin my TDR re-read. Theres a point while on the drifter that Elayne agrees with something Nynaeve says and Egwene essentially thinks " elayne agrees with Nynaeve too much.' and then goes on to admit that its usually when Nyn is right. When did Egwene adopt this attitude here? Did she and nyn disagree on a point i missed.

 

I think she was just going through a sulky rebelious teen phase to be honest. I never really got the sudden animosity between the two in TDR, always seemed a bit forced and silly. I think it was just to show Egwene was becoming her own woman and losing some of her respect for Nynaeve.

[yoniy0]

When/where/how does Verin learn travelling?

Cadsuane taught her (along with everyone else) on the trip to Far Madding.

 

I think she was just going through a sulky rebelious teen phase to be honest. I never really got the sudden animosity between the two in TDR, always seemed a bit forced and silly. I think it was just to show Egwene was becoming her own woman and losing some of her respect for Nynaeve.

I agree completely, except I don't think it's silly at all. That's what everyone does, it's just part of growing up. And - Nynaeve couldn't be allowed to continue treating her as a child forever. Their relationship had to evolve in a different direction

[Feral]

When/where/how does Verin learn travelling?

Cadsuane taught her (along with everyone else) on the trip to Far Madding.

 

I think she was just going through a sulky rebelious teen phase to be honest. I never really got the sudden animosity between the two in TDR, always seemed a bit forced and silly. I think it was just to show Egwene was becoming her own woman and losing some of her respect for Nynaeve.

I agree completely, except I don't think it's silly at all. That's what everyone does, it's just part of growing up. And - Nynaeve couldn't be allowed to continue treating her as a child forever. Their relationship had to evolve in a different direction

 

The reason I say it was silly is because of how suddenly it came about. I mean most people start acting that way at like 13 then slowly build up until about 18 before calming down a bit. Whereas with Egwene it all seemed to happen suddenly at 18 and it was just confined to Nynaeve. I dunno maybe her time as a damane had something to do with it.

[yoniy0]

Back home Nynaeve wasn't someone to rebel against, she was the cool Wisdom under which Egwene could learn to one day lead her village. Her parents, on the other hand, she didn't even ask permission to run away with a strange AS. After that, Nynaeve was a comfort in a hard time, and later still her superior and teacher once more as an Accepted in the Tower. In TDR, however, they are made equals, in name at least. I think it natural that she would reject the old patterns of behavior between them.

[Terez]

Egwene says it herself - 'We are all on the same level now.' (Accepted) That's when it started.

[Thorgan]

oO thanks.

Then where does Cadsuane learn travelling?

[sandoz12]

Sorilea in TPoD,Ch12.

Edited May 1, 2011 by sandoz12

[Thorgan]

And Sorilea gets it from Egwene?

[Terez]

Yes.

 

She did not know most of the Wise Ones in the room, but one face jumped at her. Amys’s prematurely white hair combined with features that appeared short of their middle years to give her something of the look of an Aes Sedai. She must have Traveled from Cairhien. Egwene had been teaching the dreamwalkers, to repay their teaching about Tel’aran’rhiod. And to meet a debt, she claimed, though she had never made clear what debt.

[Thorgan]

That makes sense. Thanks.

 

edit: Seems odd though that Sorilea can travel. She is a very weak channeler.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Thorgan

[yoniy0]

Seems odd though that Sorilea can travel. She is a very weak channeler.

She can't. She knows the weave, though, so she did it in front of Cadsuane. It didn't actually turn into a proper Gateway, but that didn't stop Cadsuane from learning the weave.

 

EDIT:

Apparently you don't have the books with you, so here you go:

Abruptly, the glow of saidar surrounded the leather-faced woman. She was weak enough to make Daigian look at least moderately strong. But then, Sorilea's strength did not lie in the Power. "There is a thing you may find useful," she said. "I cannot make it work, but I can weave the flows to show you." She did just that, laying feeble skeins that fell into place and melted, too poor to do what they were intended for. "It is called Traveling," Sorilea said.

Edited May 1, 2011 by yoniy0

[Mongoose]

Doing a re-read and noticed this in WH Ch. 25 Bonds Min says "You listen to me Rand al'Thor. I won't let you die. And if you manage it just to spite me, I'll follow you and bring you back."

 

Could this be fore-shadowing of how Rand will die and yet live again? I guess this quote has been covered elsewhere and if so sorry for bringing it up but just found it so interesting when I read it that I wanted to know others' thoughts on it.

 

 

I doubt it. I think dying and living again is related to the Seanchan prophecy that he'll stand on his own grave or whatever it was, and thus has already been fulfilled.

 

Also I'm not sure why so many people think the girls can push off the Dark One's touch like Rand can. Maybe I need to read ToM again, but I don't recall seeing any evidence for it.

[yoniy0]

Also I'm not sure why so many people think the girls can push off the Dark One's touch like Rand can. Maybe I need to read ToM again, but I don't recall seeing any evidence for it.

What ever do you mean?

[Terez]

Doing a re-read and noticed this in WH Ch. 25 Bonds Min says "You listen to me Rand al'Thor. I won't let you die. And if you manage it just to spite me, I'll follow you and bring you back."

 

Could this be fore-shadowing of how Rand will die and yet live again? I guess this quote has been covered elsewhere and if so sorry for bringing it up but just found it so interesting when I read it that I wanted to know others' thoughts on it.

 

 

I doubt it. I think dying and living again is related to the Seanchan prophecy that he'll stand on his own grave or whatever it was, and thus has already been fulfilled.

There are four prophecies that state outright he will die. The prophecy you mentioned was not one of them, and simply referred to him going to Dragonmount where he died as Lews Therin. The other prophecies can't really be interpreted that way. Nicola's Foretelling clearly says he is 'dead, yet lives', and on a boat to boot. That wasn't fulfilled at Dragonmount.

 

Also I'm not sure why so many people think the girls can push off the Dark One's touch like Rand can. Maybe I need to read ToM again, but I don't recall seeing any evidence for it.

Here's one example, from the beginning of the chapter in Min's POV:

 

Sunlight shone upon the city. In the Stone's courtyards, Defenders in their striped sleeves and breeches kept stopping and looking up toward the open sky. The clouds still lurked on the horizon, but they were broken around the city in an unnatural ring. Perfectly circular.

 

The warmth that Min felt was not caused by the sunlight.

 

And at the end of the chapter, in Cadsuane's POV, when Rand showed up:

 

Cadsuane froze. The tea tasted good.

 

It was wonderful, as a matter of fact. Perfectly sweetened with honey. Faint bitterness and a relaxing flavor. It had been weeks, perhaps months, since Cadsuane had tasted tea that wasn't spoiled.

 

Min gasped, turning sharply toward the northern quarter of the city. The two Maidens in the doorway were gone in a heartbeat, dashing down the hallway. Cadsuane's suspicions were confirmed; their careful watch of Min had been less about protecting her and more about watching for signs of . . .

 

"He's here," Min said softly.

There's no mention of the clouds after he shows up, but the first description was clearly before he showed up.

 

In Caemlyn:

 

Gaul and the Maidens formed up around Perrin and Faile, and the procession moved down onto the road, Arganda and a squad of Perrin's Wolf Guards riding ahead to announce them. The rest of them moved along the road at a regal pace. Caemlyn's sprawling growth was even worse than that of Whitebridge. Several armies camped near Low Caemlyn. Probably supported by the various lords who had supported Elayne's ascent to the throne.

 

There was a distinct irregularity here. The clouds broke around Caemlyn. The cloud cover had been so universal elsewhere that Faile started upon seeing this. The clouds formed an open circle above the city, eerily even.

 

And here, in Aviendha's POV in Rhuidean, between two of her future visions:

 

Aviendha's foot hit the flagstones. Around her, the forest of glass columns shimmered with prismatic color. It was like standing in the middle of an Illuminator's firework. The sun was high in the sky, cloud cover remarkably gone.

By the time she was done, the sky was dark.

 

Also, Nynaeve noted that the food supplies coming from Caemlyn to Tar Valon were not spoiling.

[Durinax]

Can Masuri travel pre Caemlyn trip?

"the snakebiites from the bubble of evil had affected the two of them and Masuri--- the only one of the Aes Sedai who had been bitten --- worse than the others."

 

I just cant see that throwing in Masuri among the two asha man who can definately travel as getting sicker then the rest being accidental

[Sharaman]

Can Masuri travel pre Caemlyn trip?

"the snakebiites from the bubble of evil had affected the two of them and Masuri--- the only one of the Aes Sedai who had been bitten --- worse than the others."

 

I just cant see that throwing in Masuri among the two asha man who can definately travel as getting sicker then the rest being accidental

 

Pretty sure she can't. Perrin's timeline, logistics problems and isolation work precisely because only the two Ashaman can Travel. It's true that some of the WO were taught the Travel weave by Egwene. But the ones who went with Perrin didn't know it. So Masuri cannot Travel.

Maybe the point to the quote you gave is that channelers get hit harder?

Edited May 2, 2011 by Sharaman