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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Place the Race: Real World and Randland Race Comparisons


WolfDragonFox
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Hello all and welcome, I found an earlier thread that only got 8 comments because I guess people don't find this to be an exciting topic but I beg to differ.  I think that figuring out or gaining a picture of the different Randland nationalities that one can better see the characters and lends a great imagery tool to the reader, it has for me anyway.  So of to the Races, pun intended.

 

            I will be naming a Randland nationality and what i believe is the MOST ACCURATE COMPARISON IN MY OPINION to one of our real world races of people with a link to a picture i find represents my selection.  Not all will be posted at once but i will continue to do these till I cover all of them i can find or think of or that have been described as well as why i think so.

 

Saldeans - Jewish/Greek take your pick on this one, mine is more the Jewish/Greek route.  I think these people are described as caucasian NOT ASIAN as some seem to believe. Its in the attitude too. Heres and example in the form of Donna Feldman a Jewish Model. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Donna_Feldman_2008.jpg/401px-Donna_Feldman_2008.jpg

 

Sea Folk - Indian - and this is quite obvious to me in the description of clothing jewelry piercings and skin tone.  It seems straight out of a Bollywood movie. example in form of the lovely Aishwarya Rai http://www.bihartimes.com/Newsbihar/2009/Jan/aishwarya_rai.jpg

 

Tairens - Dark Asian - by this I mean your Vietnamese, Mongolian, and Philipino stock.  Notice the high wooden sandals that are used in rice patties to keep the feet from getting wet also go in Tear and there is the everpresent bamboo staff Juilin uses but his discription, which is the best we have of a Tairen is aged dark wood.  This cold of course be Native american but I beg to differ on that. here is an example via Jason Scott Lee who I want to play the role of Juilin should they get off the ol butt and make the movies. http://img.movieberry.com/static/photos/28189/14_midi.jpg BTW he is Chinese Hawaiian the latter of which gives him the skin tone so he is the exception because he is so great.

 

Thats it for this round i'll be back w/ some more later please add your own tho and/or comment on my opinion, cuz thats what its really all about.  LATER!

 

 

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Tairens - Dark Asian - by this I mean your Vietnamese, Mongolian, and Philipino stock. Notice the high wooden sandals that are used in rice patties to keep the feet from getting wet also go in Tear and there is the everpresent bamboo staff Juilin uses but his discription, which is the best we have of a Tairen is aged dark wood.
So sandals are a racial characteristic?
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He means the clogs used to keep them out of the mud in the Maul (sp?).  Its funny, becides the dark skin, I always pictured the tairens as dutch because of the clogs LOL

No, however it is regionally specific and use specific to walking in wet ground conditions I never said it was race specific just something more to think on.  I would say he was Native American but that is more for the Aiel.

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Sorry High Lord, I napped th wrong quote.  Mr Ares is the one I was going for lol anyway yes you are correct in were I was going with the sandals thing but its almost his whole wardrobe plus the way he fights plusthe ol' conical had http://venthemiux.webs.com/-%20New%20Folder/Conical%20Hat.pngHe is lean and handsome and in his middle years. He looks as though he were carved from aged wood. He has short, black hair and dark eyes. (TDR,Ch49)This is the description right out of TDR.  All signs point to Dark Asian Cultures.

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Maybe the title should be changed.

 

Because first off, Race would not mean "Indian" or "Dark Asian"'s.

 

I think what you mean is:

 

Ethnic / Regional relations.  Or even Cultural relations.  I'm sorry, but according to classic metrics, there are about six "races" and they are ambiguous

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Sea Folk - Indian - and this is quite obvious to me in the description of clothing jewelry piercings and skin tone.  It seems straight out of a Bollywood movie. example in form of the lovely Aishwarya Rai http://www.bihartimes.com/Newsbihar/2009/Jan/aishwarya_rai.jpg

 

yes, but you have to remember that in WOT culture and skin color don't always match up the way they do in the real world.  A good example is the Shinarians who seem to have a Shogun like culture but are described as fair skinned, or the Aiel who look like Irishmen but have a culture similar to the Zulu or Cheyenne.

 

I've always pictured the Sea Folk with the skin tones of sub saharan Africans but that's just how they appear in my mind.

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He means the clogs used to keep them out of the mud in the Maul (sp?).  Its funny, becides the dark skin, I always pictured the tairens as dutch because of the clogs LOL

No, however it is regionally specific and use specific to walking in wet ground conditions I never said it was race specific just something more to think on.  I would say he was Native American but that is more for the Aiel.

 

When was the last time you saw a red headed Native American  ;D

 

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You guys make valid points which is why I love this topic, the answer is never perfect i'm just throwing out my best in mind picture and sharing. As of yet i only see The Watcher and Wanderer offering other options. 

 

  To answer the question of the conical hat: yes this is the one he WAS wearing when we first meet him, he now wears a top hat of a sorts I believe.

 

  In answer to a "Red headed Native American" This is an easy fix, we know they are sun darkened so you can portray the Aiel with Native american, tho i believe a mix of Samoans for the males and Latina women for the females would be the best on screen representation.  Light skinned black people as well.  All you have to do is change the hair colors to range from pale blonde to crimson reds according to character description.  EASY!!!...lol

 

  Not that it will give me any kind of better standing in your views of my opinions and solutions (you must decide for yourself) but as a filmmaker I tend to use most of my spare time thinking of how to get this series to film format. (obviously the ol' lady comes first for that spare time...lol but I really have devoted a lot of my time to hatching these things out in my mind and on paper, notebooks full of wants needs problems and solutions.  That is why I finally signed in to the forum to get some feedback.  The big one for me is casting correctly.  Scripts and CG and locations can all be done.  Thanks for reading this so you can understand where i am comming from and please keep this thread alive with contributions of your own.

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Okay lets tackle a few more of these ETHNICITIES, Happy...lol  here we go

 

Seanchan - this is easy so we'll get it out of the way, it is basically in my eyes the equivalent of the United States.  Its a melting pot of ethnicities, probably from years of conquering like they are doing in Randland now.  The difference being it is a Monarchy system.

 

Aiel -  Samoan/Native American for the men and South American for the Women, just give them the change in hair color.  Like i said above, light skinned black is good too for this role. examples below:

 

Michael Ealy as the light skinned black representation http://www.daemonsmovies.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/michael-ealy.jpg

Yasmin Deliz for the South American women representation http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UAr5YEoecHI/SfdtlSj3kmI/AAAAAAAACGc/ETs7P79XMzw/s400/yasmindeliz.jpg

Dwayne Johnson for the Samoan representation...yes THE ROCK http://www.kidzites.com/images/TheRock.jpg

Native american representation http://www.onetalentsource.com/pmembers/Model/10544/Pocohontas1644444.jpg

 

 

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Sea Folk - Indian - and this is quite obvious to me in the description of clothing jewelry piercings and skin tone.  It seems straight out of a Bollywood movie. example in form of the lovely Aishwarya Rai http://www.bihartimes.com/Newsbihar/2009/Jan/aishwarya_rai.jpg

 

yes, but you have to remember that in WOT culture and skin color don't always match up the way they do in the real world.  A good example is the Shinarians who seem to have a Shogun like culture but are described as fair skinned, or the Aiel who look like Irishmen but have a culture similar to the Zulu or Cheyenne.

That's precisely the point I was making - these cultural details aren't really helpful in terms of establishing the race of various countries in the books. RJ even said the Aiel were based on the Irish.

 

that's the hat he's wearing?

no, i always pictured it something like a fez, some models are slightly conical

I think that's the hat he has at first, then he gets a new one in Tanchico, which is a fez.
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Absolutely I think I said that he USED to where that hat which is how we are first presented with his character but he is wearing some kind of top hat now so I agree on that point. 

 

I think everyone is still missing my point which is, I know and have studied who RJ ACTUALLY based the different ethnicities on but I'm trying to say who should play them as representations if we were to see them on screen, I am not disputing the fact that they wil all need totally crazy but fun modifications to their speech patterns and wardrobe and makeup(which includes hair.)

 

Someone please throw in some of your own thoughts tho about which ethnicities physically represent the Randland ones best.  LOL I hope i am finally clear on what I am doing w/ this thread now.  Much respect for all the feedback tho keep it coming

Thank you for this Ashaman DeRouge, I have actually already read these descriptions previous to you pointing them out, I have read everything on that site actually...lol took a long time.  But yes those are the correct ethnic basings, I'm just looking to get the best physical representation and it is super hard since every group is so mixed with various styles and cultures.  WHICH IS ONCE AGAIN WHY I LOVE THE TOPIC!
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Just to point out, the Aiel are a pale-skinned people. Their dark complexion is only from heavy exposure to the sun. Any time one's out of their cadin'sor, or has removed a part that's almost always covered, it's mentioned that they have fair skin underneath. They have hair that's red, blond, and brown, though the fairer two are more often mentioned, and black even makes an appearance every once in a while. Their eyes are all light-colored, though.

 

Some of the sea-folk have been described as being dark as charcoal, so I'm hesitant to label them as being similar to Indians, though it's quite possible that they have a variety of people.

 

Cairhienien are short and fair.

 

Tairen's are often referenced as dark

 

If it's any help (which I don't think it will be), to the best I can judge and given that the planet this takes place on is the same as Earth given everything we've been told, the Borderlands lie across northern Europe, south of Scandinavia, from where Germany meets the sea on its eastern coast to the Ural Mts. Arad Doman lies in eastern France and into Germany, Toman Head lies in eastern Spain, Tarabon lies in northern Africa and part of the Mediterranean. Going east from there we have Amadicia, Altara, Illian, and Tear from there to the western Himalayas, with Tear lying across much of northern Saudi Arabia. The Aiel Waste is seemingly made up of parts of Afghanistan, eastern Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. It gets harder to fill in the middle nations of Randland. But the Sea Folk islands would be made up of the remnants of Africa and maybe southern India. Shara is mostly China through southeast Asia.

 

But people have been scattered, so ethnic relations between everything are somewhat meaningless, I guess.

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Just to point out, the Aiel are a pale-skinned people. Their dark complexion is only from heavy exposure to the sun. Any time one's out of their cadin'sor, or has removed a part that's almost always covered, it's mentioned that they have fair skin underneath. They have hair that's red, blond, and brown, though the fairer two are more often mentioned, and black even makes an appearance every once in a while. Their eyes are all light-colored, though.

 

I think with regards to the Aiel, the entire point is that while they should look like individuals who have grown up in a harsh, dry and hot environment, they should NOT look like a people who evolved there. They are in fact settlers in the Three-Fold Land, descended from a people who would have lived a much easier life, climatologically speaking.

 

 

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I remember how Greeks were mentioned earlier. I think it's more likely that Altarans are ethnically closer to Greeks than Saldeans. Southern Altarans are referred to often as having olive skin, which is pretty much associated with Greece and Sicily, to my knowledge. I believe northern Altarans are fairer, though. Saldeans strike me more as Armenoid. I'm not sure if that's exactly a politically correct term anymore, considering it goes back to the whole racial classifications. You see this a lot in Asia minor, though throughout Europe as well. They tend to have hooked noses, high cheekbones, tend towards Mediterranean darkness of skin, dark hair, and while the description says round eyes, the pictures I see appear "slightly tilted". They also tend to be relatively tall.

 

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Someone has asked me to point out the following:

Irish people have PALE SKIN, and in the waste would all die of skin cancer and heat stroke. Also, a fierce warrior culture did exist in celtic ireland (and scotland), and the clann and sept system have been taken directly from there (on a side, red hair is surviving better in scotland than ireland..why do recessive genes even EXIST?). Obviously famed for their indiscipline though, and never had to fight lions, search for water, and not everybody was trained in fighting (musicians/bards, elite crafts people, druids, later priests), as everyone seems to have been in Aielic(?) culture.
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I always picture the Aiel as being sort of Celtic or Scandinavian, with a Native American sort of culture.  I started leaning toward Scandinavian due to the height thing and the fact I've mentally assigned the Two Rivers to be kind of an Irish sort of place.  I never made the association about Juilin's conical hat, but that hat in the link would look pretty cool.  Some very interesting stuff brought up here.

 

Also I like Mr. Ares' quote, very enlightening about the clan and sept thing.  I think Pale skinned people could survive in that environment though, if they were hardy enough.  I think the ozone layer was more potent then, and they had tools and an ability to give themselves some sort of rudimentary shelter.

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Sea Folk - Indian - and this is quite obvious to me in the description of clothing jewelry piercings and skin tone.  It seems straight out of a Bollywood movie. example in form of the lovely Aishwarya Rai http://www.bihartimes.com/Newsbihar/2009/Jan/aishwarya_rai.jpg

 

LOL! I'll take it you think all Indians are like that. Not all Indians have dark skin tone, buddy. Some are quite fair too. And its only the "just married" or "getting married" women who deck themselves with crazy 5 kg or heavier jewellery. But I wont argue on the choice. Lol. It's still amusing though. :D

 

Lmao. There was a time back two years when there used to be frequent water shoratges in Bombay (gone for now, from my place at least), so much so that I used to co-rellate to the Aiel. Not anymore though. Sea Folk is good enough. :D

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Sea Folk - Indian - and this is quite obvious to me in the description of clothing jewelry piercings and skin tone.  It seems straight out of a Bollywood movie. example in form of the lovely Aishwarya Rai http://www.bihartimes.com/Newsbihar/2009/Jan/aishwarya_rai.jpg

 

LOL! I'll take it you think all Indians are like that. Not all Indians have dark skin tone, buddy. Some are quite fair too. And its only the "just married" or "getting married" women who deck themselves with crazy 5 kg or heavier jewellery. But I wont argue on the choice. Lol. It's still amusing though. :D

 

Actually not at all, I don't know why everyone thinks I assume things so much, lol thats funny to me because I am a very unassuming man.  Just love the actress and bollywood films so thats why I picked her for the photo, I dated and Indian girl in college and her father was pale but full blooded so no assumtions here.  In fact I find this to be more the style basis than the actual ethnicity base because as was pointed out, some are described as "Dark as coal" which indicates Central and western African tribes.  Mostly the style is my point for them and the ethnic group would be a decent base race with others thrown in like another of those melting pot cultures.  And I know the women don't always dress that way excepting special occasions (once again loved one for years) but the Sea Folk do dress this way when shorebound.  Everything goes out the window in the middle of the ocean its just topless fever then so no style required...lol

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