Elaida (Full Spoilers)

[ed2funy]

i don't think we are that close to TG...maybe a few months..not days or weeks...

 

I believe her plot is mainly over..she has nothing special left to do but live her life....

 

BUT, I think we will see her in the next book, and her plot line will officially end...even if she is in the back round a little....which i doubt...

[Calderis]

As far as timeline goes, I think that the state of things at the end of TGS is probably just a few weeks, if not days, away from the Last Battle.  For all we know, the Last Battle might be fought, over, and done by the time the to'raken carrying Eladia even reaches Ebou Dar, or if it does get there in time, there probably wouldn't be enough time to break her and teach the weaves to the number of damane strong enough to travel.

 

Perhaps in the future of things that happen after the Last Battle and after the series is over, this might have come into play, but as far as the next two books is concerned, I think her part is over and done.

 

We're in the part of the series that all this mass conglomeration of plot threads are starting to end or come together with other plot threads, I don't see either Jordan or Sanderson want to add another one at this point in the series, in what was originally meant to be the last book.

 

It has to be longer than that. According to Min's viewings, Rand can't win without Moiraine. So the ToG has to happen, Still have the WT BT Clash which at this point is Rand and Egwene, but with serious "Why'd you get you bond's all up in my shiznah!" politics.

 

Then there's the Creation of Aludra's Dragons, which could be goin on while their in ToG...

 

All on top of "binding the nine moons" and all that Rot...

 

So essentially next book is, Rand and Mat heavy in final prep for battle, which involves the Seanchan and gives AMPLE time for Elaida to reach Ebou Dar.

[Dakota]

As far as timeline goes, I think that the state of things at the end of TGS is probably just a few weeks, if not days, away from the Last Battle.  For all we know, the Last Battle might be fought, over, and done by the time the to'raken carrying Eladia even reaches Ebou Dar, or if it does get there in time, there probably wouldn't be enough time to break her and teach the weaves to the number of damane strong enough to travel.

 

Perhaps in the future of things that happen after the Last Battle and after the series is over, this might have come into play, but as far as the next two books is concerned, I think her part is over and done.

 

We're in the part of the series that all this mass conglomeration of plot threads are starting to end or come together with other plot threads, I don't see either Jordan or Sanderson want to add another one at this point in the series, in what was originally meant to be the last book.

 

It has to be longer than that. According to Min's viewings, Rand can't win without Moiraine. So the ToG has to happen, Still have the WT BT Clash which at this point is Rand and Egwene, but with serious "Why'd you get you bond's all up in my shiznah!" politics.

 

Then there's the Creation of Aludra's Dragons, which could be goin on while their in ToG...

 

All on top of "binding the nine moons" and all that Rot...

 

So essentially next book is, Rand and Mat heavy in final prep for battle, which involves the Seanchan and gives AMPLE time for Elaida to reach Ebou Dar.

 

Admittedly, I had forgotten about some of those points, such as Moiraine having to have been rescued before the last battle (I was half expecting Moirane's capture to be one of those plot threads not wrapped up by the end of the book), and a few other points.

 

So TG might not be as close as I had thought, but I still think that Eladia's part in the series is done and anything she'd tell the Senchean wouldn't have ramifications until after the last battle.

[The Watcher and Wanderer]

i don't think so...

we saw Galina's POV and it had a sense of finality to it....

 

That's what I thought at first, but now I'm not so sure.   For one thing I really can't see the Shaido just sitting out for TG.  Even if they wanted to I'm not sure they would have that option,   at some point they would probably at least have to defend themselves.   Also we now have Avi returning to The Threefold Land which opens the possibility of a Shaido encounter.  The Shaido did return to the Threefold Land to rebuild, and considering that they are in a transition phase I wonder if Avi will somehow finally bring them over to Rand.  Of course I suppose this could all happen without having Galina in the foreground

 

we will definitely see her from Tuon or a sul'dam POV....

 

I certainly hope so, it sounds like a hoot.

[lsm]

When did eliada ever meet fain? what is this nonsense? i need to do some rereads of the early books.....

when fain fails in the two rivers vs goldeneyes, he goes to caemlyn, then heads off to the white tower. his knowledge of rand lets him get some sort of interview..

 

i think her part in the story is finished much like galina's

 

i don't think so...

we saw Galina's POV and it had a sense of finality to it....

 

Elaida wasn't mentioned...

 

Maybe in ToM, the story will backtrack and we will see her....

we will definitely see her from Tuon or a sul'dam POV....

 

no, even though she is a horrible leader and not so nice person...she will be back..

 

well it's always possible she'll come back, but to me, i found elaida's scene similar to galina's, both with a sense of finality

[ed2funy]

i don't think so...

we saw Galina's POV and it had a sense of finality to it....

 

That's what I thought at first, but now I'm not so sure.   For one thing I really can't see the Shaido just sitting out for TG.  Even if they wanted to I'm not sure they would have that option,   at some point they would probably at least have to defend themselves.   Also we now have Avi returning to The Threefold Land which opens the possibility of a Shaido encounter.  The Shaido did return to the Threefold Land to rebuild, and considering that they are in a transition phase I wonder if Avi will somehow finally bring them over to Rand.  Of course I suppose this could all happen without having Galina in the foreground

 

True...but idk think we will see Galina trying to escape or any possibility of her coming back in any such way....

Elaida has a chance....of at least doing something....

[Theodor89]

Didnt Brandon give a hint about Elaida and the coming book? Don´t have a link though, but it was mentioned somewhere...

[Valisbourne]

Personally, I'm half expecting Elaida to die during the 'questioning' that she is certain to receive (extra for her since she was the former leader of the AS) regarding the perceived super weapon the Aes Sedai are supposed to possess.  The Seanchan sincerely desire this weapon and would likely not believe that she doesn't know of it.

 

Regarding her 'fate' in captivity...  I think every AS (excepting Eqwene, as of the last book or so) in the world could use a good 3 month stint in that captivity.  Might knock some of their ingrained arrogance out of them and put them in touch with the common folk a bit more.

[1eejit]

I expect we'll see her in the Prologue of ToM, but that will probably be her final appearance unless she becomes one of Fortuona's personal damane or something.

[lillcheese]

I think everyone is over-thinking Elaida's Fain encounter.  Yes, she was effected, but Mat had the frickin' dagger for months!  There is no way Elaida was as effected by her limited time with Fain was as Mat was by possessing the dagger.  Fain's influence pushed Elaida's already "evil" or "power loving" mind further in the wrong direction, but it didn't cause her to go completely paranoid like it did to Mat right before he was healed.  She started getting there, and maybe after more time she would have been even worse, but she was not as effected as Mat was, and I'm sticking to it!

 

Agreed. Fain nudge < Dagger possession

 

I guess I look at the taint problem as similar to cancer.  I don't know a lot about cancer, everything I know comes from tv. So, maybe my analogy is worthless, but here it be:

 

I think of Mat's possession of the dagger as him getting one giant tumor, in the brain perhaps.  Deadly, yes.  Huge impact on personality, yes.  But, it's all in one place.  It can be removed.  Once removed, there are some residual effects.  Overall though, you get a complete recovery. 

 

In Elaida, the tumor started out much smaller.  But it metastisized.  How? She had more vulnerable points in her personality for the Taint to grow and spread.  Removing the effects of the Taint would be near impossible as it can't be isolated any longer.  It's too incorporated into her own original personality.

 

all IMHO of course

[ed2funy]

Personally, I'm half expecting Elaida to die during the 'questioning' that she is certain to receive (extra for her since she was the former leader of the AS) regarding the perceived super weapon the Aes Sedai are supposed to possess.  The Seanchan sincerely desire this weapon and would likely not believe that she doesn't know of it.

 

What if Elaida knows Balefire? And she thinks this is it? and she gives it to the Seanchan?

 

omg...that would be horrible...

 

But...channeling can heal cancer....any kind right....

lol..i get you analagy..i just wanted to say that...

[randfandom]

Personally, I'm half expecting Elaida to die during the 'questioning' that she is certain to receive (extra for her since she was the former leader of the AS) regarding the perceived super weapon the Aes Sedai are supposed to possess.  The Seanchan sincerely desire this weapon and would likely not believe that she doesn't know of it.

 

Nope she will be broken, but as one of the strongest Aes Sedai, I just can't see the Seanchan letting her go to waste - they are very protective of the life of their damane, being such useful tools.

 

Regarding her 'fate' in captivity...  I think every AS (excepting Eqwene, as of the last book or so) in the world could use a good 3 month stint in that captivity.  Might knock some of their ingrained arrogance out of them and put them in touch with the common folk a bit more.

 

How can you say that? I am with Egwene here - *no one* deserves to be collared. The damane don't get their arrogance knocked down a bit - they are completely broken. They are treated as mad dogs that must be tools on a leash. Reread Egwene's experience as a damane in book 2 - it's horrible.

Most Aes Sedai are arrogant and bullies, but also strong and capable women for all that. If you seek lessons in humility for them, I'd say the Aiel Wise One training is a lot better. It's harsh, but they are training leaders, not scared dogs on a leash. Anyway, Egwene is making a good start there.

 

I think the next one to get her pegs knocked down should be Tuon - she really needs it - I like her strength, intelligence and honesty but she is so arrogant, self serving and narrow minded, she needs a real lesson in humility... A confrontation between her and Egwene would be something to see...

[ed2funy]

I think a few days (up to a week perhaps) would be good for them....

 

Egwene didn't break!

It made her stronger.....they need to experience it....IMO....

 

They can just leave the Wise Ones....

Just look at the Salidar AS who dealt with them....

it didn't teach them any humility...it made them stick their backs up and lash their tails....they got more snooty for it!

[Valisbourne]

 

Regarding her 'fate' in captivity...  I think every AS (excepting Eqwene, as of the last book or so) in the world could use a good 3 month stint in that captivity.  Might knock some of their ingrained arrogance out of them and put them in touch with the common folk a bit more.

 

How can you say that? I am with Egwene here - *no one* deserves to be collared. The damane don't get their arrogance knocked down a bit - they are completely broken. They are treated as mad dogs that must be tools on a leash. Reread Egwene's experience as a damane in book 2 - it's horrible.

Most Aes Sedai are arrogant and bullies, but also strong and capable women for all that. If you seek lessons in humility for them, I'd say the Aiel Wise One training is a lot better. It's harsh, but they are training leaders, not scared dogs on a leash. Anyway, Egwene is making a good start there.

 

I think the next one to get her pegs knocked down should be Tuon - she really needs it - I like her strength, intelligence and honesty but she is so arrogant, self serving and narrow minded, she needs a real lesson in humility... A confrontation between her and Egwene would be something to see...

 

Do I honestly think that?  No.  Although the typical Aes Sedai sets my teeth on edge and makes me wish they could all be spanked by Mat. Or severed for a year and turned out with no money into the streets. (I really don't like most AS)

 

As for Tuon and the rest of the Seanchan...  I truely think it's a cultural difference.  Is it slavery?  Yes.  Is it horrible?  Yes.  Have they been taught, for over 1000 years, that channelers are mad dogs who will destroy them all if not collared?  Yes.  I am hoping that 'serious' contact between of the leaders of the Seanchan and the rest of Randland will begin to change that opinion.  (Eqwene's dream of a Seanchan woman 'helping her to the top' during the attack on the white tower indicates to me that they will HAVE to work together, sooner or later.  At the very least, at the last battle.)

 

My opinion, regarding AS during the series, are that the Wise Ones are far more what the Aes Sedai SHOULD have been than the AS have been in at least 1000 years.  Which is why I'm hopeful with Eqwene as Amrylin fully, now.

[Calderis]

At this point, if you wanted to look at it right, Egwene's dream could technically be fulfilled.

 

Tuon sends the raid to the Tower, Egwene never see's here (thus the shifting face)

 

They take Elaida, and Egwene is chosen as the knew Amyrlin.

 

Elaida's Capture was directly responsible for the timing of Egwene's official rise to power and the reconsolidation of the tower.

 

Tuon kinda gave her one hell of a boost there, and neither of them realize it.

[velinion]

Didnt Brandon give a hint about Elaida and the coming book? Don´t have a link though, but it was mentioned somewhere...

 

Not sure about on here, but at the signing I was at, someone asked Brandon (Paraphrasing here, take with a grain of salt) about the impact of Elaida's taint on the Seanchan. Brandon was a little dodgy (so take this with a fair bit of salt) but the impression I got was that while the taint would spread and effect those around here, the effect would be somewhat confined/limited by her being Damane, and the way in which Damane are viewed by the Seanchan.

 

I'll see if I can dig up the exact quote later.

 

[Jemlin]

I think any of you who are suggesting, seriously, that the Aes Sedai should all be put under the Seanchan Collar for while to be "taught a lesson" need to seriously re-adjust your morals.

 

Like pointed out, Egwene's thought to having Aes Sedai train with Wise Ones for a while is better.  Harsh training, but it IS training for true leaders...not breaking spirit to make puppies on leashes, who will cower to the ground if their "masters" are killed. 

 

I am just as against the orthodox Aes Sedai arrogance as the rest, but we need to remember two points. One, the Seanchan collaring of women is WRONG. Period.  And two, that not all Aes Sedai fall into the same category in terms of arrogance and ignorance. 

[Sev]

So...everybody here that 'hates the arrogance of the Aes Sedai' and Tuon realize that they get to be flawed and interesting characters that don't fit into our own REAL WORLD idea of morality, right?

 

Can't you just appreciate that they are well-written characters and serve a purpose in the story without distilling them down into "I wish they were this" or "I wish they were that?"

 

Just rolling my eyes a little at how much everybody wants this story to conform to their own ideas.

[Crael123]

slavery, and all ypes of it is wrong. it is just sick. aes sedai are arrogent bitches most ofthe time but the damene are just wrong.

[ed2funy]

lol...wow...i just think it would be interesting to see the worse ones as damane for a week....

i don't really want them too...

meh...

[Mr. Insane]

  I anticipate the hall putting Eladia back in the Amrylin seat after Egewene somehow rescues and captures a large number of damane.  I dont realy want to see it happen, but Egewene's mistakes are going to catch up to her.  She used Eladia musing about a fourth oath as ammunition.  Somehow the oaths of Faolain and Theodrin will make that shot blow up in her face.  She let the statement at the bridge that "Eladia, Flame of Tar Valon, The Amrylin seat, is missing and presumed captured or otherwise unable to fulfill her duties" stand rather than challenging it.  Egewene will step down without a fight, because she will feel that she has fixed the hall and the tower, and they wont let Eladia bully them.  

[Mr. Insane]

On the topic of Aes sedai deserving or not deserving leashes, I think the black ajah deserve leashes.  Giving the dark one back his servants is not the answer.  What if the trollocs that attacked tylee's army were the resurrected souls of darkfriends that had just died at the battle at malden.

[ed2funy]

wow...Egwene will not step down...she feels she can do a better job  than Elaia (and she can)...and all the AS know how strong she is...in power and in will...

[Mr. Insane]

  Well there is plenty of evidence to back up that prediction,  but I'll admit maybe its a crazy one anyway.  I thought Eladia foretold Egewene kneeling before her and asking forgiveness for rebelling?

[Diederichos]

Was it Egwene or was it the rebels in general that asked for forgiveness and was it the Amyrlin that was asked for forgiveness and Elaida assumed it was her or was it Elaida specifically? Given what we know of Elaida, she properly interpreted that wrong.