Demandred (Full Spoilers).

[Calderis]

Its not as thou its huge groups of channellers going up to the blight at once but the single individual over the years and its been done from the first breaking. Whether the DO or Demandred have tucked them away somewhere to be brought out for this battle I would think it quite possible.

 

The DO has known about this battle and I can't see him/her not having a Ace up his sleeve and Demandred is that Ace.

 

but without the 13/13 conversion it won't happen. They find out they can channel and they head to the blight to try and KILL the DO. Sure some of them may be darkfriends, and you'll get a few that may be willing to learn to channel from the Forsaken, but the majority woould NOT voluntarily join up.

[Luckers]

Demandred army is the Aiel male channellers who have been going to the blight to fight shadowspawn for thousands of years.  The DO has turned them all into Demandred Dreadlord Army.  That's why he hasn't needed to be in Rands world.

 

Just a guess at this point ;D

 

Unless this was a continuous 13/13 scenario, with sisters and myrdraal just hangin on the borders of the waste and blight at all times.... I don't see it.

 

I don't nessesarily see this as impossible. It needn't be Aes Sedai doing it either. Any female channelers trained in the method could do it.

[Crossroad]

Also we don't know whats happen with that lot that went to the BT, 47 plus the Red sisters at the end of KoD.  If Taim working with Demondred there's your 13/13

[thewalrus777]

And remember that those male Aiel channelers are going to the Blight individually. I would imagine almost 90%+ get killed fairly quickly, because as we've seen previously, there are things in the Blight that scare most Shadow spawn. Thining the herd if you will. If the DO or Ishamael were to get some of those channelers and then turn them, they'd have to do it fairly quick.

[bronnt]

Demandred army is the Aiel male channellers who have been going to the blight to fight shadowspawn for thousands of years.  The DO has turned them all into Demandred Dreadlord Army.  That's why he hasn't needed to be in Rands world.

 

Just a guess at this point ;D

 

Unless this was a continuous 13/13 scenario, with sisters and myrdraal just hangin on the borders of the waste and blight at all times.... I don't see it.

 

I don't nessesarily see this as impossible. It needn't be Aes Sedai doing it either. Any female channelers trained in the method could do it.

 

But then you have this problem-Aiel routinely raid north into the Blight, most specifically younger ones to test themselves.  They learned (somehow) about the Eye of the World this way, but they've never encountered any of these conversion parties that are just waiting for male Aiel channelers to pop up?

[balefireruinssteaks]

Has anyone debunked the theory that Demandred is King Roedrin of Murandy?

 

I can think of a couple of reasons why this makes sense...I don't think we've ever seen him though we've certainly heard of him.  Also having Matt's Band right there to work with his army would be an ideal way to make a connection to one of the ta'veren they've been trying to kill this whole time.

 

The only thing that doesn't make sense is that Demandred said his rule was secure and I thought Murandy was in some sort of civil disarray or something?

 

Anyway...I was curious.

[morkhon]

Demandred army is the Aiel male channellers who have been going to the blight to fight shadowspawn for thousands of years.  The DO has turned them all into Demandred Dreadlord Army.  That's why he hasn't needed to be in Rands world.

 

Just a guess at this point ;D

Speaking of the Aiel, I had a theory Demandred was some unseen Aiel forming, mobilizing, and leading the Siswai'aman. Of course I base this on virtually nothing other than I think those 'Spears of the Dragon' will have a much deeper meaning and impact than we think. Maybe they're not what they seem.

[cgilbertmc]

Has anyone debunked the theory that Demandred is King Roedrin of Murandy?

 

I can think of a couple of reasons why this makes sense...I don't think we've ever seen him though we've certainly heard of him.  Also having Matt's Band right there to work with his army would be an ideal way to make a connection to one of the ta'veren they've been trying to kill this whole time.

 

The only thing that doesn't make sense is that Demandred said his rule was secure and I thought Murandy was in some sort of civil disarray or something?

 

Anyway...I was curious.

 

I like this one. It does seem to fit the profile...We've never seen him though we have heard of him.

Hiring the Band would have been a good way to get Mat in his clutches if he had (as would normally have been) with the Band.

A reader and collector of histories, his interest in the art of war book that Mat had recommended is appropriate

Roderan has been gathering his army, ostensibly to protect himself from the Seanchan and whatever other marauders may be out there, but in reality could be for TG.

Talmanes had the feeling that Roederan was about to turn on him and do away with the Band.

By the end KoD, Roederan's rule was indeed secure.

[morkhon]

By the end KoD, Roederan's rule was indeed secure.

What makes you say that? And also, I don't think it's a matter of just having his rule secure. It's that the ruler of Murgandy doesn't have much power at all. Unless things have drastically changed there.

[cgilbertmc]

As a minor kingdom, it is below the notice of Rand, and yet can still gather an army unto itself legitimately.

I just like this theory above Shara because bring in Shara at this point would seem a little too much deau ex machina for my taste.

Of course RAFO but until we can, we ponder...

[mb]

I doubt Roedrin is Demandred.

The Band's camp seemed close to the Aes Sedia's.

Aes Sedia and Warders can detect people deep in the Shadow.

Forsaken would be considered deep in the Shadow.

 

[lillcheese]

I doubt Roedrin is Demandred.

The Band's camp seemed close to the Aes Sedia's.

Aes Sedia and Warders can detect people deep in the Shadow.

Forsaken would be considered deep in the Shadow.

 

 

By that logic Messy cannot be in the WT because her evil darkness would be sensed.

[cgilbertmc]

What of Gaebril in Caemlyn and Lanfear and Asmodean in the caravan? Moiraine and Lan did not detect them until they chose to reveal themselves. Morgase was trained in the WT and was unable to detect Gaebril.

AS and Warders can detect shadowspawn (e.g. darkhounds, draghar, trollocs & fades) Can AS detect the Gholam?

[The Desert Pea]

Demandred being Roedrin just doesn't make sense, it doesn't fit his character at all. He's always tried his best to be the Dragon's better, and always comes in second place in everything. Simply taking over a small country with no real military threat doesn't fit.

 

Declaring himself the Dragon Reborn in Shara perfectly matches him, though. He would lead the unknowing Sharan forces into TG thinking that they were fighting the Shadow instead of helping them. Basically, he'd be playing Rand's role with a different set of people, making it the ultimate fight between the two to determine who's the best. Shara, to me, simply makes more sense for Demandred.

[Aquarius]

Declaring himself the Dragon Reborn in Shara perfectly matches him, though. He would lead the unknowing Sharan forces into TG thinking that they were fighting the Shadow instead of helping them. Basically, he'd be playing Rand's role with a different set of people, making it the ultimate fight between the two to determine who's the best. Shara, to me, simply makes more sense for Demandred.

I used to believe that as well, but the only issue I have with that is that it's too close with what Sauron does with the men from the south when fighting Gondor.

[Tel Asra Nejoar]

a wha... something being too close to the lord of the rings has not stopped authors before, and most of the troops from the south actually came from the east...

[balefireruinssteaks]

I just think everyone is trying too hard to bring Shara into the storyline.  Curiosity about it is all good and well but I thought RJ said we wouldn't see anything about Shara.

 

 

[yoniy0]

Declaring himself the Dragon Reborn in Shara perfectly matches him, though. He would lead the unknowing Sharan forces into TG thinking that they were fighting the Shadow instead of helping them. Basically, he'd be playing Rand's role with a different set of people, making it the ultimate fight between the two to determine who's the best. Shara, to me, simply makes more sense for Demandred.

The thing is, I don't think he CAN. The Pattern wouldn't allow that. The same way Logain and Taim couldn't go on claiming to be the Dragon when the real one has declared himself, Damandred would find himself unable to do so, should he try. Until the DO is released, Damandred still lives as part of the Pattern, just as everybody else.

[cgilbertmc]

I just think everyone is trying too hard to bring Shara into the storyline.  Curiosity about it is all good and well but I thought RJ said we wouldn't see anything about Shara.

 

 

 

Agreed. Might make an interesting spin-off, but Shara is too remote except by ship. We already have 2 Sea Powers and an armada of Sharan triremes coming to Tear or Ebou Dar strains credulity.

Although considered a minor country, Murandy still has considerable acreage and would be a good staging point for an army with 3 major roads, 1 major river and 2 tributaries. Demmy hiding down there, taking a "minor" role is sure to increase his frustration and worsen his mood. He has access to all the southern and eastern kingdoms with minimal effort. though in the past he was considered "action man" he is definitely more of a schemer now, what with his temporary alliances with Semi and Mesaana.

[morkhon]

I just think everyone is trying too hard to bring Shara into the storyline.  Curiosity about it is all good and well but I thought RJ said we wouldn't see anything about Shara.

 

 

I don't think people are talking about characters travelling to Shara, or even viewpoints from within Shara. But rather bringing a Sharan army to where the action's at. I don't think it's remotely probable. I look at two criteria to try and figure out what Demandred has been up to..

 

1. The DO's instructions in LoC to 'let the Lord of Chaos rule', and the subsequent maniacal laughter at the closing of the book when Demandred says something to the effect of 'have I not done well?'. So Demandred was very involved in something significant in LoC. It would be quite silly if it turned out to be some unkown events in Shara, and not events that we witnessed in the book. RJ wasn't a hack, so I rule that out. My feeling is he was controlling Masema during this time.

 

2. "My rule is secure. I gather for war..."  This is the more interesting (and baffling) quote. We should be able to get a clear idea where Demmy is by this line. First I thought he's using Taim as a proxy and 'gather for war' for some odd reason struck me as asha'man allowing to be bonded to aes sedai. Something about the 'gathering/joining/grouping' of saidar and saidin wielders. And Demmy does like to use proxies, but again there are inconsisties to Demmy's knowledge of the asha'man that poke holes in his close affiliation with them.

 

 

[The Desert Pea]

Declaring himself the Dragon Reborn in Shara perfectly matches him, though. He would lead the unknowing Sharan forces into TG thinking that they were fighting the Shadow instead of helping them. Basically, he'd be playing Rand's role with a different set of people, making it the ultimate fight between the two to determine who's the best. Shara, to me, simply makes more sense for Demandred.

The thing is, I don't think he CAN. The Pattern wouldn't allow that. The same way Logain and Taim couldn't go on claiming to be the Dragon when the real one has declared himself, Damandred would find himself unable to do so, should he try. Until the DO is released, Damandred still lives as part of the Pattern, just as everybody else.

 

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that actually. Definitely messes that idea up a bit. Maybe he's just the ruler there instead of a false Dragon? I don't know, I just want him to be somewhere other than Murandy, it's a terrible spot for such a promising character like Demandred.

[mb]

Another doubt about Roedrin:

The books do not tell whether Demandred reads or collects histories; nor whether he ever did.

 

Demandred (and most of the other Forsaken) would more probably go by knowledge available during the Age of Legends than by knowledge from the Third Age.

 

[Aagaard]

Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier....

 

We have some clues from the other forsaken as do Demandred's actions.

 

Sammael tells Graendal that he did not have a hand in the kidnapping of Rand and states that Messy was behind it, and then goes on to say that demmy and semi also might have been involved regardless of the end... From this I have always thought that Sammael was sure that the Ashaman rescuing Rand was somehow under either semi or demmy's control. Either that or in Perrin's group. Semi then is revealed in the Seanchan camp which only makes it more apparent that Demandred could be the one with control of the sith  dark ashaman.

 

I agree with the people who writes that many events have demmy written all over them, including Masema, Roedrin and this new savior in Andor, who's name I somehow have forgotten. We know that he like proxies so it is more than possible that he also set up the black tower, even though I believe Taim to be a new-age forsaken by now, because he has been able to make the dark black tower so strong and we know from Graendal that the DO always liked people who could rally people to the DO's cause.

 

Sorry that seem like ranting 

[bronnt]

Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier....

 

We have some clues from the other forsaken as do Demandred's actions.

 

Sammael tells Graendal that he did not have a hand in the kidnapping of Rand and states that Messy was behind it, and then goes on to say that demmy and semi also might have been involved regardless of the end... From this I have always thought that Sammael was sure that the Ashaman rescuing Rand was somehow under either semi or demmy's control. Either that or in Perrin's group. Semi then is revealed in the Seanchan camp which only makes it more apparent that Demandred could be the one with control of the sith  dark ashaman.

 

I agree with the people who writes that many events have demmy written all over them, including Masema, Roedrin and this new savior in Andor, who's name I somehow have forgotten. We know that he like proxies so it is more than possible that he also set up the black tower, even though I believe Taim to be a new-age forsaken by now, because he has been able to make the dark black tower so strong and we know from Graendal that the DO always liked people who could rally people to the DO's cause.

 

Sorry that seem like ranting 

 

AS of Winter's heart, though, Demandred doesn't know enough about the Asha'Man to have been associated with them at Dumai's Wells.  He doesn't recognize Flinn, who's among the first to show up for testing, and he doesn't recognize the significance of Flinn's black jacket, which should have pointed out an Asha'Man to someone who recognized it.  Therefore, anything connecting Demandred to the Asha'Man has to be discounted.

 

Sammael thinks that the other two might be involved because of their connection with Mesaana.  And I think he might be right-we don't know who was giving orders to the Aiel who attacked Demira Sedai in Caemlyn.  Sammael used the Aiel at various points, but he says he played no part in the kidnapping.  Those Aiel were certainly Darkfriends.  I think that much was probably Demandred, since Semirhage was probably on board a ship around that time, and would have had a tough time Traveling.

[Wingendosering]

I was talking about this with my friend the other day and I came up with two possibilities:

 

1) He is in Shara, since it is one of the only places that could have an army on the move that we wouldn't know about.

 

2) (and this seems the most likely to me) He is a Sea Folk leader.  I'm not sure when RJ said we hadn't seen Demandred alternate personality, but I believe him to be the Mistress of the Ships.  For several reasons.

a)  We know that one day the Cairhein Wavemistress will take the position, so the one currently in power has to be dethroned at some point.

b)  Having Demandred as a woman would be the perfect cover.

c)  Demandred tells Moridin that his army is assembled and ready to move just as the SEa Folk are preparing to set out to bring grain to Arad Doman's capital (can't remember the name of that place).

d)  Sammael's 'south' comment fits.