The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Sharaman]

Ok, all of you slow down.

 

1. Tuon cannot channel. With training she could, but as things stands she simply has the ability to learn. According to RJ she is not even like how Zeta and Bethamin. They, due to their long sul'dam work were so close that they could step over any time (and thus could be held by an a'dam). Tuon cannot as yet be held by an a'dam. She is too young. Too inexperienced as a sul'dam for all her seeming skill.

 

Ah - KoD when she grabs Joline and Teslyn together, she's holding two damane simultaneously - the first time we even learn this is possible. Also when she tries to channel at Mat during that scene she's shocked because she sees the weaves melt.

I'd say she's well along the way to stepping over as you call it, she's skilled and practised enough to be held.

 

 

 

My statement was not me, but RJ--Tuon is not at the stage where the a'dam could hold her.

 

Cool. Only, his description of the scene in the circus does suggest that she can already see weaves, etc. Of course, if he said she wasn't. BTW - when did he say it - post-KoD signings or earlier?

 

[firstfishman]

They were. The Aelfinn will allow one visit only from any person, and during that visit they will answer up to three questions (though Mat, with his usual luck, manages to squeeze 4 answers out of them - he must go to Rhuidean or he will die, he is fated to marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons, to die and live again, and to give up half the light of the world to save the world. TSR,Ch15) We have only heard two of Rand's qs. Is the third the BUT? What might that q be?

 

 

Mat actually had two other questions answers.  Go to Rhuidean was one of them.  Can't remember the other off the top of my head.

 

Question one: Should I go home to help my people?

Anser: "You must go to Rhuidean"

 

Question two: "Why should I?" (go to Rhuidean)

Answer: "If you do not go to Rhuidean, you will die"

 

Question three: "Why will I die if I do not go to Rhuidean"?

Answer: "You will have sidestepped the thread of fate, left your fate to drift on the winds of time, and you will be killed by those who do not want that fate fullfilled"

 

Question four: "what fate?"

Question five: "Burn you, what fate?"

Question six: "What fate?"

Answer Four: "To marry the daughter of the nine moons"

Answer five: "to die and live again, and live once more a part of what once was"

Answer six: "To give up half the light of the world to save the world"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sharaman]

Sorry, I didnt feel like reading all 168 previous posts to see if anything I have to add was mentioned before.

 

1) What did Moiraine see when she went to Rhuidean? It was said that they think they saw through their ansestors eyes. Did she see her forefathers give the Aiel water? Or worse?

 

The Wise Ones run a different circuit from the wannabe chiefs. Moiraine ran the WO circuit, which gives some visions of the runner's own future. She saw stuff, which will become clear when you read the next book. (Spoilers from TFoH)

 

 

 

2) If the taint of Shadar Logoth spreads, does this mean there are thousands of Fain followers out there now? Do they have a part to play in the final battle? Who does Fain hate more, the DO or Rand?

 

It depends on which side of bed Fain got up in the morning. A mouse would starve on the difference.

No, there aren't thousadns of Fain followers but there are a few that he has influenced.

 

3) Lan'fear tells Rand there are two more powerful an'greal than Callandor that a man can use. The Choeden Kal is one, whats the other? Where is it?

 

We don't know - plenty of speculation about it.

 

4) Egwene finds a broken Choeden Kal in Tanchiro while wandering the world of dreams. Is there another male Choeden Kal out there?

 

We don't know if there are more access keys out in the wild.

 

5) Is the song the Travelling people seek the seed sewing song Rand sees while walking through the crystal pillars in Rhuidean? Aiel, Ogier, and Nym all sing it while sewing the crops.

 

Im only on chapter 36 of The Shadow Rising, so Ill have more questions soon enough.

 

Perhaps. Again the song and what it may be, is a matter of heated debate.

Enjoy the series!

 

[dumont76]

 

 

- I like the Rand's questions to the Aelfinn theories

 

- I have a real hang-up with Mazrim Taim (we all know there's something extremely dangerous lurking in that story arc), so I'm leaning into a closer look at his Red Ajah deal to allow Asha'man bonding with Red sisters.  I have a bad feeling about Taim, and he hasn't had alot of press time in the last few books if I remember correctly.

[JakeBarnes]

 

 

- I like the Rand's questions to the Aelfinn theories

 

- I have a real hang-up with Mazrim Taim (we all know there's something extremely dangerous lurking in that story arc), so I'm leaning into a closer look at his Red Ajah deal to allow Asha'man bonding with Red sisters.  I have a bad feeling about Taim, and he hasn't had alot of press time in the last few books if I remember correctly.

 

The questions happened in book 3 in the Tear doorway.  The doorway in TSR (book 4) was 3 wishes.  THe questions/answers are not the BUT.

 

I TAKE IT BACK!!!  I always want to associate all of the events in Tear with TDR.  I apologize now for being dumb.

[dumont76]

Well after reading tGS after Christmas, I decided to delve back into the series from the beginning.(I'm a little past half on tGH, so in a couple more books I'll get to the marrow of this thread!) I'm hoping this will help me get a better handle on some of the older stuff that we are hashing out here!  It feels good to have this much info coming to one place:)

 

 

[bronnt]

 

 

- I like the Rand's questions to the Aelfinn theories

 

- I have a real hang-up with Mazrim Taim (we all know there's something extremely dangerous lurking in that story arc), so I'm leaning into a closer look at his Red Ajah deal to allow Asha'man bonding with Red sisters.  I have a bad feeling about Taim, and he hasn't had alot of press time in the last few books if I remember correctly.

 

The questions happened in book 3 in the Tear doorway.  The doorway in TSR (book 4) was 3 wishes.  THe questions/answers are not the BUT.

 

I TAKE IT BACK!!!  I always want to associate all of the events in Tear with TDR.  I apologize now for being dumb.

 

Nice to catch yourself before someone works up an indignant fury to correct you ;-)

[bronnt]

So, regarding Rand's three questions, is there any consensus as to whether we've seen them?  I know we've seen at least three different answers.

 

1)  To live, you must die.

2)  The North and West must be as one.  The South and East must be as one.  The two must be as one.

3)  It's unclear what they actually said, but the question was about cleansing saidin.  My personal belief is that they let him knew he'd have to use saidar as a conduit (he knew the saidin conduit would shatter if used that way).

 

I suppose it's possible that two of those answers are relevant to his "How do I win the Last Battle and live?" question, in which case we're still wondering about his third question.

 

If the third question is missing, it's hard to speculate because we don't have the remotest hint what else he might have asked.  What else is of interest? The Forsaken, I suppose, but he never knows enough about what they're doing to conclude he got an answer on that regard.

 

What else is there?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

There has been a lot postings that one of Rand's questions was how to cleanse Saidin.  Where is that reference coming from?

 

His third question could have been about to save Emond's Field.  There is no reason that Mat and Rand would not have had similar questions.  Something interesting would be the answer, depending on how Rand asked the questions.  If Rand said how do I save my people?  And they answered about how to save the Aiel instead of the Two Rivers.

[Dreamwalker]

There has been a lot postings that one of Rand's questions was how to cleanse Saidin.  Where is that reference coming from?

 

His third question could have been about to save Emond's Field.  There is no reason that Mat and Rand would not have had similar questions.  Something interesting would be the answer, depending on how Rand asked the questions.  If Rand said how do I save my people?  And they answered about how to save the Aiel instead of the Two Rivers.

 

In Rand's PoV in tPoD Ch. 14 we learn that one of Rand's questions was how to cleanse saidin and he had asked Herid Fel about the answer they gave him. We don't get to know the exact wording of question or answer specifically, though Fel says it has "sound principles, in both high philosophy and natural philosophy."

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

There has been a lot postings that one of Rand's questions was how to cleanse Saidin.  Where is that reference coming from?

 

His third question could have been about to save Emond's Field.  There is no reason that Mat and Rand would not have had similar questions.  Something interesting would be the answer, depending on how Rand asked the questions.  If Rand said how do I save my people?  And they answered about how to save the Aiel instead of the Two Rivers.

 

In Rand's PoV in tPoD Ch. 14 we learn that one of Rand's questions was how to cleanse saidin because he asks Herid Fel about the answer they gave him. We don't get to know the exact wording of question or answer specifically, though Fel says it has "sound principles, in both high philosophy and natural philosophy."

 

thanks

[dumont76]

So, regarding Rand's three questions, is there any consensus as to whether we've seen them?  I know we've seen at least three different answers.

 

1)  To live, you must die.

2)  The North and West must be as one.  The South and East must be as one.  The two must be as one.

3)  It's unclear what they actually said, but the question was about cleansing saidin.  My personal belief is that they let him knew he'd have to use saidar as a conduit (he knew the saidin conduit would shatter if used that way).

 

I suppose it's possible that two of those answers are relevant to his "How do I win the Last Battle and live?" question, in which case we're still wondering about his third question.

 

If the third question is missing, it's hard to speculate because we don't have the remotest hint what else he might have asked.  What else is of interest? The Forsaken, I suppose, but he never knows enough about what they're doing to conclude he got an answer on that regard.

 

What else is there?

 

What about Mazrim Taim?  Or do we agree that he's had too much presence to be the big unnoticed puzzle?

[Bazarat]

Here is something odd, but it might have already been talked about.  Be'lal, Sammael and Mazrim Taim all use the same sigil (the gauntlets with 2 lightning bolts, I think it is).  We have heard alot of talk about thirteen Dreadlords weaving through thirteen Myrddraal can turn anyone who can channel to the Shadow against their will but have yet to see it.  I am wondering if after Mazrim Taim escapes, or was freed by say Sammael or some black ajah, if he was turned to the shadow then sent to Rand with the seal as a way to get him in the good books.

 

Anyways there is more in books 7-11 but maybe this is just too far fetched, for the record I thought Ishy might have been playing as Taim being he is playing both sides.

[bronnt]

Here is something odd, but it might have already been talked about.  Be'lal, Sammael and Mazrim Taim all use the same sigil (the gauntlets with 2 lightning bolts, I think it is).  We have heard alot of talk about thirteen Dreadlords weaving through thirteen Myrddraal can turn anyone who can channel to the Shadow against their will but have yet to see it.  I am wondering if after Mazrim Taim escapes, or was freed by say Sammael or some black ajah, if he was turned to the shadow then sent to Rand with the seal as a way to get him in the good books.

 

Anyways there is more in books 7-11 but maybe this is just too far fetched, for the record I thought Ishy might have been playing as Taim being he is playing both sides.

 

Taim is much too significant to be the "big unnoticed thing."  He is discussed more than practically every other character, especially in connection to wacky theories.

 

Now, while there's a possibility Taim had the 13 and 13 trick performed on him, I remember a quote from RJ where he indicated that Taim has never been exactly a nice guy.  I don't think he's a leading candidate for such a conversion, but I do keep wondering that 13+13 trick it will pop up.  I'd really like to learn that one of the Forsaken-maybe Mesaana-was turned that way, but it seems to be a fading possibility.

[Sharaman]

The 13+13 will surely feature at some stage. Brandon compared it to the loaded gun on the stage in a play - it's there as a prop because it'll be used. But it would be overkill doing it to a Darkfriend or somebody who was nasty anyhow.

It'll probably be used or an attempt will be made to use it on a channeller who is known to be on the side of the Light.

Cadsuane maybe? Or Egwene herself, given the circs in which the subject cropped up?

[bronnt]

The 13+13 will surely feature at some stage. Brandon compared it to the loaded gun on the stage in a play - it's there as a prop because it'll be used. But it would be overkill doing it to a Darkfriend or somebody who was nasty anyhow.

It'll probably be used or an attempt will be made to use it on a channeller who is known to be on the side of the Light.

Cadsuane maybe? Or Egwene herself, given the circs in which the subject cropped up?

 

Egwene might make sense, but it piss me off that so much character development has been put into her if she was just going to be turned at the end anyway.  It's not that we're attached to the character, but we had to plod through years of the Egwene-becomes-Amyrlin plotline.  If it turns out she's turned now, we're left wondering what she actually accomplished during the entire series.  It took her until now to kill off about 70 Black Ajah, and that was, by far, more Verin than Egwene.  Her entire role in WoT can't be that she rediscovered Traveling.

[Crael123]

I am rereading LoC and i passed the part yesterday where Bashere almost knifed rand in the face in Caemlyn, right before Taim showed up. this would be HUGE if bashere is a DF and would play a huge role in TG

[bronnt]

While I'm sure this doesn't qualify for something unnoticed...we have no idea where Rand has stored the remaining seals.  Most of that stuff from Rhuidean is in a warehouse in Cairhien, but that seems a careless place to leave the seals.  When he went to Far Madding, he brought the access keys and Callandor, but apparently not the seals, so they didn't end up in Cadsuane's possession.  There's no way to even know whether they're still safe.  Apparently they weren't with Bashere or Dobraine since those plots failed in the CoT prologue.

 

 

[Sharaman]

One is with Bashere - the one Taim handed on in LoC.

Two were with the Rhuidean cache so they may be in the warded warehouse.

Or hidden somewhere else, since Rand knew exactly where they were.

The rest IIRC are broken. 

 

[Crael123]

also there is still the seal that we have no clue where it is

[Sharaman]

also there is still the seal that we have no clue where it is

 

All the seals are accounted for.

Four are broken, one is with Bashere and only Rand knows for sure where the other two are.

1) EotW - broke

2) Domon had one and gave it to Turak - broke

3) Turak himself had another - broke

4) Nyn found one in the Panarch's Palace - broke

5) One in Tear - intact

6) One in Rhiduean - intact

7) Taim had one - gave it to rand - who gave it to Bashere - intact

 

# 5-6 were packed up by Moiraine along with other Rhuidean stuff.

 

[Crael123]

then why was rand wondering where the final seal was and if it was safe?

 

or that may have been eggy or nyneave. i might be wrong

[FarShainMael]

There has been a lot postings that one of Rand's questions was how to cleanse Saidin.  Where is that reference coming from?

 

His third question could have been about to save Emond's Field.  There is no reason that Mat and Rand would not have had similar questions.  Something interesting would be the answer, depending on how Rand asked the questions.  If Rand said how do I save my people?  And they answered about how to save the Aiel instead of the Two Rivers.

I like it!

(And 'hi' from ZZ9pluralZalpha..)

[Owayn The Traveller]

The Tinkers

[lillcheese]

then why was rand wondering where the final seal was and if it was safe?

 

or that may have been eggy or nyneave. i might be wrong

 

No one person in the story knows where they all are, iirc.  Rand doesn't know about the one Nynaeve & Elayne picked up in Tanchico and carried to the SAS.  It broke sometime during their trip from Valan Luca's circus to Salidar.