The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[clu7ch]

I was reading through Shadow Rising and came accross a part where the aiel dreamwalkers are taking to Nyn or Elayne and they ask them if its possible to pull someone into the world of dreams and they say that it is something evil that happened in the last days of teh War of Power and its certainly the last days of this age so I figure maybe something like this will happen it would be a good way to get at certain ppl like min for example who know nothing of the world of dreams

 

Didn't that happen with Faile and the hedgehog? or are they implying physically pulled in?

[lammbo]

Rane008 brought up something I was going to, and here is the exact quote out of TSR, Chap 54: Into the Palace, page 909 in my paperback edition;

 

    Moghedian smiled and took a step nearer. "...travel to other worlds, even worlds in the sky. Do you know that the stars are..."

 

This was when Nyn and Mog were having their power struggle in the Panarch's museum near the cuendillar objects and the dinosaur bones. Space travel was mentioned before in an obscure reference to Neil Armstrong's moon landing. Now what this means is beyond me, so I'll pass the ball onto the rest of you to discuss ;D.

 

Although I have no qualms accepting blindly that the AoL AS could do some remarkable things, possibly including space travel / off-world colonization, but why would the off-planet colonies not have been heard from in all this time?  Did the breaking happen off-world also as the men went mad?  One would assume this is the case given the lack of any other reference, but that's just the thing you see, there are no other references... Impossible for this to be tBUT because it is not repeatedly mentioned.

[yoniy0]

Although I have no qualms accepting blindly that the AoL AS could do some remarkable things, possibly including space travel / off-world colonization, but why would the off-planet colonies not have been heard from in all this time?  Did the breaking happen off-world also as the men went mad?  One would assume this is the case given the lack of any other reference, but that's just the thing you see, there are no other references... Impossible for this to be tBUT because it is not repeatedly mentioned.

I don't remember if it's RJ or BS who is quoted to say that you could get to a planet on your own solar system using traveling, but not further that that, no matter how big a circle you're using. Hence the reason - while they could explore our immediate surroundings, they found no place suitable for a colony.

 

I was reading through Shadow Rising and came accross a part where the aiel dreamwalkers are taking to Nyn or Elayne and they ask them if its possible to pull someone into the world of dreams and they say that it is something evil that happened in the last days of teh War of Power and its certainly the last days of this age so I figure maybe something like this will happen it would be a good way to get at certain ppl like min for example who know nothing of the world of dreams

 

Didn't that happen with Faile and the hedgehog? or are they implying physically pulled in?

I don't know about Faile, but I thought that's what Ishamael did to Rand, Mat and Perrin in TEoTW.

[FarShainMael]

'Mark' can also mean 'notice', 'take note of', as in 'mark my words'. Rand has certainly been noticed.. Maybe Selene / Lanfear is being deliberately ambiguous, to unsettle Rand.

 

[Sharaman]

Marked can also be marked by living - lines on the face, harder eyes, etc.

I think Lanfear is saying the Shepherd she led around the nose in TGH has grown up some.

 

 

[Eagle Prince]

I think Dreamwalker is dead on about the mark thing.

 

The other planets thing is interesting.  Aren't the Ogier from another planet?  So they can only Travel inside their own solar system even with the most powerful cirlce/sa'angreal.  So they'd have to have made some kind of spaceship to get to another solar system.  The people of the AoL had lost even their cars/airplanes and such, so I doubt there is any spaceships kicking around to get to any possible colonized worlds, even if there are any.  And they wouldn't be able to come to Randland for the same reason.  But, the point of Moghedien bringing that up (storytelling wise) might have just been for some context about the Ogier coming from another planet.

[yoniy0]

I don't think the Ogier are aliens, what basis do we have for that? Just 'magical beings' who use the Book of Translation to move in and out of Randland in certain ages. I assumed they were going to a parallel world, but it's all speculation. We'll probably find out more about it in ToM or AMoL.

 

Regarding the marking, my money is with Sharaman, for what it's worth.

[Sharaman]

Ogier are from "another world" - we don't know if this is a parallel world or mirror world (two different things) or another planet in this universe.

The BoT returns them to that world - again we dunno how.

 

[Elwynn]

Alright, gotta go with Sharaman for shooting this one down. *Snap*

I didn't put in the quotes leading up to the situation, but she notices he's marked before any talk of other women is put forth. I seriously doubt she can tell he is in love by looking at him (or in his heart or whatever), otherwise I think the chosen would have big problems hiding their schemes from one another  ;)

Unless maybe she can see it in his eyes, she does say somewhere she would know those eyes anywhere. But that would lend to Sharaman's idea as well.

 

I was thinking it was a weave or SH mark, something tangible. But nicely put Sharaman, it's probably something like that.

[Eagle Prince]

If you can tell someone is more "experienced" at life by looking at them, then why wouldn't the same be true about him being in love or whatever.  I didn't mean the mark was some magic thing she could see on his soul.

 

The Ogier could be from another world in another dimension rather than another world in the same universe.  My point was other planets being mentioned was just to put certain things in context, not as a clue that aliens will show up in ter'angreal spaceships at the end and take part in the Last Battle.  If for no other reason, that would just be freakin' wierd.

[yoniy0]

by looking at them

Oh, but she said those things in reply to his own words, which actually did indicate he wasn't that young farm-boy she knew anymore.

[Eagle Prince]

To me, it makes a lot more sense if she's talking about him looking like a love-sick puppy than him just looking less naive.

[Dreamwalker]

Alright, gotta go with Sharaman for shooting this one down. *Snap*

I didn't put in the quotes leading up to the situation, but she notices he's marked before any talk of other women is put forth. I seriously doubt she can tell he is in love by looking at him (or in his heart or whatever), otherwise I think the chosen would have big problems hiding their schemes from one another  ;)

Unless maybe she can see it in his eyes, she does say somewhere she would know those eyes anywhere. But that would lend to Sharaman's idea as well.

 

If him being more grown up is the case, then how does it have anything to do with her comment that he will be hers again that she makes in conjunction with her statement that he's been marked? I think that is the big tip-off that she's just talking about Elayne marking him out for herself (remember that Lanfear is pretty unhealthy/obsessed/a stalker when it comes to her relationship with him and sees it as owning him - like a wolf marking territory, so she'd put it in those terms). As for him not having mentioned other women before that in the conversation, that does not in any way mean that Lanfear doesn't know all about it. It wasn't exactly a secret in the Stone, from other's POVs (like Mat) we know that they know about him and Elayne, and she definitely keeps an eye on Rand and seems to know what goes on around him.

[Eagle Prince]

If him being more grown up is the case, then how does it have anything to do with her comment that he will be hers again that she makes in conjunction with her statement that he's been marked? I think that is the big tip-off that she's just talking about Elayne marking him out for herself (remember that Lanfear is pretty unhealthy/obsessed/a stalker when it comes to her relationship with him and sees it as owning him - like a wolf marking territory, so she'd put it in those terms). As for him not having mentioned other women before that in the conversation, that does not in any way mean that Lanfear doesn't know all about it. It wasn't exactly a secret in the Stone, from other's POVs (like Mat) we know that they know about him and Elayne, and she definitely keeps an eye on Rand and seems to know what goes on around him.

 

I was going to say the same thing myself, but didn't bother.  1) Lanfear is obsessed with having LTT as her lover, 2) right after she says Rand's marked, she starts talking about anyone else who tries to be his lover, she only considers a caretaker until LTT is her's once again.

[Elwynn]

Ya, the fact that she starts talking about someone else being a caretaker in the meantime (directly after noticing him marked) is what made me thinking it's a woman, it actually made me jump immediately to Moraine.

I didn't even go back to consider it until the very end when she is talking about her own mark on him (her bite mark) and asking him if he wants her to make it permanent. That's what got me thinking so hard on something tangible and noticeable that she remarks on in the beginning. Guess I couldn't let that go once I got it in my head. That's the great thing about forums :)

The love-sick puppy thing makes quite a bit more sense now. The eyes, in love or weathered; it makes more sense now than reaching for some invisible touch.

[yoniy0]

She also says it would have been easier if she found him when he was a baby. So I think she might have meant "you've grown up (and you don't get excited just because I'm standing next to you anymore), but it doesn't matter. Now I'm claiming you".

Of course, it kind of boils down to the same thing, so maybe the point is moot.

[Caveman_Nick]

I am not sure what's so "Big" and "Unnoticed" about Rand being marked, in particular in the way of marked with living.  THere are comments all over the books about how much Rand has changed from the shepherd that left the two rivers.

 

I think there has to be some bigger underlying theme that's being missed.

[NetSlider]

I know it has been discussed to some degree (though not very much) but what about the headbands some Aiel wear. I know it is a far stretch, but maybe that will be how "good" Aiel know they are not DF. Any Aiel not wearing the symbol is a DF (except the Maidens, of course). 

[NetSlider]

P.S. And isn't there something about "under this symbol he will break you?" or something like that.

[yoniy0]

It's "Under this sign will he conquer" (took it from TFoH, ch 6: Gateways).

And I hope you're wrong, considering most of the Aiel don't wear the symbol.

[NetSlider]

Remnant of a remnant will survive. I mean, at this point light has a major military upper hand, so it seems there has to be something monumental that would make the DO forces truly stronger, truly threatening, and truly overwhelming. But I also hope I'm wrong, because than it's up to wetlanders, and I'm just not too crazy about most of them.

[yoniy0]

Oh, no no no. The Light certainly doesn't have the military upper hand. I'm not an expert (didn't follow the military thread), but it seems to me that the Light side (with the Seanchan) would be hard pressed to produce more than 2 million soldiers.

Now, someone threw 100K trollocs in Rand's way just for something to do, which I think paints a very gloomy picture. My guess is there's a lot more where that came from.

[NetSlider]

Not to start a military discussion, but do you even imagine the amount of resources you need to arm and feed that many trollocs? How many forges you'd need to fire? And how much meat you need to feed the soldiers (trolocs will eat anything as long as it's meat). I'm not even talking about the territorial issues and the limited space of the blight with hostile creatures (like worms) that would kill even trollocs and only would serve DO himself. I think it's clear that SO FAR light has upper hand, but that's for now. I think what Demandred is doing and where he is will shift things (every great literary work starts with great conflicts  :)). So, unless Shara opens up and throws about 2 million soldiers at the western lands (with many channelers to boot) I don't see how DO forces are superior.

[deathgate]

Think about how many trollocs a worm would feed. Darkfriend wormhunters in the Blight. Dangerous occupation?

[Shazzai]

Think about how many trollocs a worm would feed. Darkfriend wormhunters in the Blight. Dangerous occupation?

 

...  I just got a crocodile hunter flashback...

 

"Just let me stick my finger in 'is bum.  Roight, now he's REALLY mad!"