The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Dead Guy]

In that prequel an entire Aiel army greets Lan in unison using that name, IIRC.

[Tel Asra Nejoar]

yip, the ail have one thing in common with nynaeve...

 

 

 

...lan love

[Sharaman]

This probably isn't the BIG thing, but what about in TSR when the Aiel start referring to Lan as Aan'allein, "man who is an entire nation". How do they recognize him, and how do they know about his broken crown, let alone their knowledge of Malkier.

 

Apart from the NS hail of respect, there's a section in TDR when Rhuarc looks at the golden crane ring and says (paraphrasing)" We remember the Malkieri - they danced well against us in alliance with Shienar and we know about their uncrowned king who courts death in his war against the shadow as if it's a beautiful woman. " In TSR, the WO discuss Lan with Moiraine and Lan explains the ways in which Aiel fight (the enflanking movements) to Rand. Plenty of contact therefore, even if hostile.

 

[Ramza20]

This probably isn't the BIG thing, but what about in TSR when the Aiel start referring to Lan as Aan'allein, "man who is an entire nation". How do they recognize him, and how do they know about his broken crown, let alone their knowledge of Malkier.

 

Apart from the NS hail of respect, there's a section in TDR when Rhuarc looks at the golden crane ring and says (paraphrasing)" We remember the Malkieri - they danced well against us in alliance with Shienar and we know about their uncrowned king who courts death in his war against the shadow as if it's a beautiful woman. " In TSR, the WO discuss Lan with Moiraine and Lan explains the ways in which Aiel fight (the enflanking movements) to Rand. Plenty of contact therefore, even if hostile.

 

 

Right, like I said to someone else, I know Lan fought them in their marches to Sheinar. That doesn't mean that they would know his history and the history of his fallen kingdom. They talk for almost a whole chapter about how much they respect him (other than the fact that he carries a sword). I just think that the respect that the Aiel have towards Lan is going to play a bigger part than a person would have originally thought.

[Tommatt]

Hey guys, been lurking here for awhile, first time poster.  The BUT thread has really sucked me into these forums, and with the last book being so great, it seems the whole WoT series has been rejivinated on message boards everywhere.  Saw this tidbit on a forum at penny-arcade, in the WoT thread there.  Never seen it mentioned this way, and wanted your thoughts on it here.  I was looking for the prophecy thread, as it may be more appropriate there, but couldn't find it.

 

This is from Ender on the penny arcade forums.

 

The South and West shall be as one. The North and East shall be as one. The Three shall be as one.

 

In thinking about this, the answer now seems pretty simple. The south and west belong to the Seanchan. The north and east to Rand. What about the three?

 

Then I thought about it, and this came to me. Cadsuane figured out that Callandor required 3 people to use properly. Two women, one man. We know Alivia will assist Rand in dying, whatever that means.

 

I think the Three are representative of the land, that's why the prophecy lists them together. From the Seanchan (South and West) comes Alivia. From the Aes Sedai (North and East, one must assume the references match each other, and the Aes Sedai only have power in the north and east) will undoubtedly be Moiraine (Rand thinks he will fail without the help of a woman who is dead and gone). Then Rand.

 

From what I can tell, this pieces a number of prophecies together, and one of Egwene's Dreams (I think she was the one who told Rand about the woman dead and gone, or was that Min?).

 

 

 

Thought it was a very interesting take on a couple prophecies and a dream. 

[Ramza20]

Hey guys, been lurking here for awhile, first time poster.  The BUT thread has really sucked me into these forums, and with the last book being so great, it seems the whole WoT series has been rejivinated on message boards everywhere.  Saw this tidbit on a forum at penny-arcade, in the WoT thread there.  Never seen it mentioned this way, and wanted your thoughts on it here.  I was looking for the prophecy thread, as it may be more appropriate there, but couldn't find it.

 

This is from Ender on the penny arcade forums.

 

The South and West shall be as one. The North and East shall be as one. The Three shall be as one.

 

In thinking about this, the answer now seems pretty simple. The south and west belong to the Seanchan. The north and east to Rand. What about the three?

 

Then I thought about it, and this came to me. Cadsuane figured out that Callandor required 3 people to use properly. Two women, one man. We know Alivia will assist Rand in dying, whatever that means.

 

I think the Three are representative of the land, that's why the prophecy lists them together. From the Seanchan (South and West) comes Alivia. From the Aes Sedai (North and East, one must assume the references match each other, and the Aes Sedai only have power in the north and east) will undoubtedly be Moiraine (Rand thinks he will fail without the help of a woman who is dead and gone). Then Rand.

 

From what I can tell, this pieces a number of prophecies together, and one of Egwene's Dreams (I think she was the one who told Rand about the woman dead and gone, or was that Min?).

 

 

 

Thought it was a very interesting take on a couple prophecies and a dream. 

 

Good theory, except for when rand asks the Finns how to win the last battle they say "The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The TWO must be as one. If you would live, you must die."

 

Nothing about the THREE being as one

[Ramza20]

Though you are right about Cadsuane saying that to weild callandor the two females and one male must become one. So there is a part with three becoming one, and I agree that this is how Alivia will help Rand die. I figured the other would be Nynaeve, just because of her sheer power, but Moraine does make a lot of sense to be the other.

[and42is]

Ok, so I've posted this before in this thread, but no one seemed to notice, but after doing some more research, I think it warrants considering:

 

In chapter 56 of The Shadow Rising (Book IV) we are given a PoV of a defeated Fain leaving the Two Rivers. He says (on page 942 on the paperback) that he is taking his remaining darkfriends to Tar Valon, "But Caemlyn first!" We next see Fain already in Tar Valon in the prologue of The Fires of Heaven, with no hint of what he did in Caemlyn. We know that Fain can have a corrupting influence wherever he goes, so it seems important to consider what Fain did in Caemlyn.     

[Auld Manriva]

Good theory, except for when rand asks the Finns how to win the last battle they say "The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The TWO must be as one. If you would live, you must die."

 

Nothing about the THREE being as one

 

The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one ... Fairly straightforward I think and just as has been predicted.

 

The TWO must be as one ~ Belief (that Saidin is clean) and order (AS/Ashaman work together) give strength ...If you take Fel's message and put it next to this Finn partial answer. It seems apparent to me that both these refer to Saidin & Saidar needing to be used together.

 

If you would live, you must die.... This could very well be just the LTT part of Rand "dying". Not proclaiming, just suggesting.

[Jong]

There was alot of stuff from TFOH regarding birgette that is sort of not fully explained.

 

How was Birgitte ripped away? Moggy is relatively weak in the power and supposedly very strong in manipulating TAR. Was her tossing Birgitte out of TAR a result of the OP or a result of her manipulating TAR? Was it the TP?

 

Also what was up with the prescripts and rules for the heroes in TAR that prohibit talking to outsiders, but in reality fail to keep them from talking to anyone? Let me get this straight, if you are a hero in real life and save the world or whatever... how lame is it that you have to follow a bunch of rules while waiting in limbo to get spit out and save the world all over again?  Who makes the rules and, if they really are rules, why was Birgette not punished for breaking them? For that matter, What do the heroes do in TAR all day long? Just hang out on the beach and sip cocktails? If the heroes wait in TAR what about everyone else they just dies and gets reborn whenever? Is there an afterlife in the WOT? Where are the normal folks hanging out?

 

And on the subject of heroes... What ever happened to Gaidal? Is he really just filling up a dirty diaper somewhere?

 

[saidarisnowtainted]

When rand is in rhuidean and sees the bore made.  He can put together that lanfear has knowledge and/or ability to reverse/wipe ou the bore as if it never was. 

[saidarisnowtainted]

Here's something wacky off the top of my head:  what if there is a connection between the seals weakening and the wolves that slayer kills in the wolfdream?  Could this be it?  There are hints that their numbers dwindle and the seals weaken, etc

[Dreamwalker]

There was alot of stuff from TFOH regarding birgette that is sort of not fully explained.

 

How was Birgitte ripped away? Moggy is relatively weak in the power and supposedly very strong in manipulating TAR. Was her tossing Birgitte out of TAR a result of the OP or a result of her manipulating TAR? Was it the TP?

 

Also what was up with the prescripts and rules for the heroes in TAR that prohibit talking to outsiders, but in reality fail to keep them from talking to anyone? Let me get this straight, if you are a hero in real life and save the world or whatever... how lame is it that you have to follow a bunch of rules while waiting in limbo to get spit out and save the world all over again?  Who makes the rules and, if they really are rules, why was Birgette not punished for breaking them? For that matter, What do the heroes do in TAR all day long? Just hang out on the beach and sip cocktails? If the heroes wait in TAR what about everyone else they just dies and gets reborn whenever? Is there an afterlife in the WOT? Where are the normal folks hanging out?

 

And on the subject of heroes... What ever happened to Gaidal? Is he really just filling up a dirty diaper somewhere?

 

 

I'm pretty sure that stuff concerning Birgitte getting ripped out of TAR has already been eliminated by virtue of being on that long list of stuff discussed on Theoryland.

 

Nevertheless, I would like to point out that Birgitte very definitely was punished for breaking the precepts - by being ripped out before her time. Have you not noticed how depressed she's been about Gaidal lately? Definitely punished, just not in the form of some reprimand by a council or higher being, but rather punished by the results of her own actions. I have a feeling these "precepts" are like the Prime Directive in Star Trek - it's a non-interference pact that got put in place because experience says that interfering eventually results in bad mojo.

[ed2funy]

Moggy does not enforce the Precepts of TAR.

 

[Dreamwalker]

Moggy does not enforce the Precepts of TAR.

 

 

I wasn't trying to say Moggy "enforces" the precepts. I don't think anyone enforces them - I think that the precepts are a set of guidelines that say, "Hey, bad stuff happens when you interfere with the living. So don't do it." Basically that getting involved with the living simply results in bad consequences, not caused by anyone, just the fact that you interfered. It's like telling someone not to play with a live wire - they won't get arrested for doing so, it's just going to end up with them getting zapped.

[ed2funy]

I don't see it that way.

TAR is a whole other thing we know relatively nothing about.

 

Someone has to enforce em imo.

If you interact with people, you will be ripped out!

Not seeing it....:-\

 

I don't see it. Just don't. Don't know how to explain it. It was Moggy, not Karma or w/e.

[Tel Asra Nejoar]

i see TaR working just like karma ed. it all fits,  its a place where if you dont follow the rules, you get hurt, even if your not a hero of the horn. verin went in ignorance, and payed the price...

[Sharaman]

i see TaR working just like karma ed. it all fits,  its a place where if you dont follow the rules, you get hurt, even if your not a hero of the horn. verin went in ignorance, and payed the price...

 

Are you referring to the wound Verin may have received in TaR? We don't know for sure that it was received in TaR and we don't know what the background was. And what does it have to do with Books 4-6?

 

[NetSlider]

Americans don't have accents. Everyone else does. ;D

 

Texan's do...but they aren't normal. :D

If you visit Taxes and cop pulls you over and you DON'T have a gun, do you know what he will do?

 

Give you one :) (jk, I actually like TX, cool people there; not all, there are couple idiots of course, but cool place none the less).

 

On a serious note, was listening to SR last night and here what came to me - Hopper says that he thinks if Perrin would to die in TAR his soul would be lost forever and will not be report (just like wolf's). Maybe this is it. In order to NOT be reborn again you have to be completely out of the pattern (not just balefire but completely, kind of like DO). Maybe this is part of this BUT.

[insane_ashaman]

Americans don't have accents. Everyone else does.

 

Texan's do...but they aren't normal.

 

No we ain't. We eat nails, crap bullets, and shoot anything that moves. We're all bigger than y'all too, cause you know, EVERYTHING'S BIGGER IN TEXAS.

 

The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one ... Fairly straightforward I think and just as has been predicted.

 

The TWO must be as one ~ Belief (that Saidin is clean) and order (AS/Ashaman work together) give strength ...If you take Fel's message and put it next to this Finn partial answer. It seems apparent to me that both these refer to Saidin & Saidar needing to be used together.

 

If you would live, you must die.... This could very well be just the LTT part of Rand "dying". Not proclaiming, just suggesting.

 

I rather like this, very logical, Fel would be proud.

 

 

[GrandpaG]

Now just look what you started!!!  Bad GrandpaG!!!

 

 

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,51911.msg1411656.html#msg1411656

 

 

 

So far they haven't discussed what an impact this will have in the Last Battle or how it will devastate Rand's trust of the Aiel.

 

 

The Pattern forces balance into all things good and bad...otherwise the universe would wobble out of control...you can't have too much of any one thing...it goes against nature.

[NetSlider]

Rand suppose to lose his trust for the Aiel? I don't recall this from anywhere. If this is the case than I have to say that a good amount of Aiel turning DF is probably this BUT. Where in the prophecies, or foretelling, or viewing, or whatever, is this trust of Aiel was mentioned?

[thewalrus777]

Rand suppose to lose his trust for the Aiel? I don't recall this from anywhere. If this is the case than I have to say that a good amount of Aiel turning DF is probably this BUT. Where in the prophecies, or foretelling, or viewing, or whatever, is this trust of Aiel was mentioned?

 

Rand only trusts 7 people. Min, Elayne, Aviendha, Mat, Perrin, Tam, and Moiraine. Otherwise than that, he trusts no one. He doesn't have a distinct distrust of the Aiel, because he has a distrust for everyone. And as stated earlier either in this thread or another, no one is infallable. Everyone(including Aiel)is subject to human error. Especially in judgment and decision making.

[rhadamanthus]

Rand only trusts 7 people. Min, Elayne, Aviendha, Mat, Perrin, Tam, and Moiraine. Otherwise than that, he trusts no one. He doesn't have a distinct distrust of the Aiel, because he has a distrust for everyone. And as stated earlier either in this thread or another, no one is infallable. Everyone(including Aiel)is subject to human error. Especially in judgment and decision making.

 

8.  He trusts Nyneave too.

[WolfDragonFox]

I don't know about this Walrus, I think he trusts Rhuarc pretty darn well.  he just got a little crazy with being "harder" that he started treating everyone like crap.  He's gonna trust a lot more people but I do agree that it is a strong possibility that an uprising of Aiel DFs could happen.  And your forgetting a couple of people, Egwene, Lan, Loial, and even though he is bonded now, Damer Flynn.  I actually think he trusts Berelain too though her story mostly rolls with Perrin's.