The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[OptimusPrime]

Why?

 

Why do we need to 'clear the rubble' first?

 

  What exactly will breaking the seals do?  How free was the DO before he was bound? vOv

 

i think its that the seals themselves were flawed. maybe the nature of the seals is what allowed the dark ones counterstroke to touch saidin. what if the seals rand makes act as a barrier between the dark one and whatever they "touch" him with?

[Agitel]

I feel as if it must be whatever Nynaeve and Elayne avoided in the tower in their search in tel'aran'rhiod. That happened but hasn't been discussed at all since. It MAY be connected in some way to the weakening wards around the Tower. I'm not sure how, but that's the only way I can think of this issue in the Tower having been continually hinted at throughout later books.

[mossman87]

Why?

 

Why do we need to 'clear the rubble' first?

 

 What exactly will breaking the seals do?  How free was the DO before he was bound? vOv

 

You can't reverse what Lanfear did and close up the Bore with the seals still there blocking you, just think of them as a bandaid.

[Teslan]

 

This is what I do not understand.

 

We take the fact that the bore was open for a long time in AoL.  Yet we seem to think that the moment the dark one is unbound now he can break the wheel/pattern?  If it was that simple he had plenty of time before the companions came and patched that bore back up.

 

So yeah, break the seals and what exactly can he suddenly do? What stopped him from doing it last time?

[ed2funy]

He need time to ascertain his control in the physical world...

 

idk

[cleantoe]

I wonder if Padan Fain himself will be turned into Cuendillar and used as the new seal on the bore. His evil will always be fighting the DO's evil and that'll make a good buffer that the DO can't lash out through.

[ed2funy]

Wow CleanToe...

 

lol...that is funny...

 

(If he is cuendillar, is his evil still able to function?)

[cleantoe]

Wow CleanToe...

 

lol...that is funny...

 

(If he is cuendillar, is his evil still able to function?)

 

:P

 

Well, why do the seals work? They are cuendillar. It's not that they ARE cuendillar that makes them work, it's what they were imbued with--presumably before they were turned into cuendillar.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

 

This is what I do not understand.

 

We take the fact that the bore was open for a long time in AoL.  Yet we seem to think that the moment the dark one is unbound now he can break the wheel/pattern?  If it was that simple he had plenty of time before the companions came and patched that bore back up.

 

So yeah, break the seals and what exactly can he suddenly do? What stopped him from doing it last time?

 

Yup, they made the bore and then it was as if the dark one suddenly started existing, they patched up the bore but the dark one still existed. You get the impression there was no knowledge of the dark one's existence never mind darkfriends before they made the bore. Incredible then how little the patches really did - he was still able to influence the pattern, people and even maintain a following.

 

What form would the dark one take? Would he leave the pits of doom or just sort of permiate.

 

 

I guess we look at it like he wants to escape, thing is he must sort of want to "leak"

[sumquy]

what if the seals are what is holding the bore open? Breaking them would allow the pattern itself to seal the dark one away.

[Teslan]

My point is the bore was open for weeks at least (as I read it, Mierin has to turn into lanfear etc between the opening and the 100 companions sealing it) the first time.

 

The dark one still seems to have worked through proxies in the physical world, and was unable to unmake the pattern or any of that shit.  

[Rocky_Outcrop]

My point is the bore was open for weeks at least (as I read it, Mierin has to turn into lanfear etc between the opening and the 100 companions sealing it) the first time.

 

The dark one still seems to have worked through proxies in the physical world, and was unable to unmake the pattern or any of that shit.  

 

I wrote a big reply two posts up agreeing with you. This will become, possibly, The Big Unanswered Question

[ed2funy]

I thought it was years before it was sealed?

 

They had time to build up armies, and take over cities.....

 

I agree Rocky... :P

[Teslan]

My point is the bore was open for weeks at least (as I read it, Mierin has to turn into lanfear etc between the opening and the 100 companions sealing it) the first time.

 

The dark one still seems to have worked through proxies in the physical world, and was unable to unmake the pattern or any of that shit.  

 

I wrote a big reply two posts up agreeing with you. This will become, possibly, The Big Unanswered Question

 

If it does I intend to invoke large degrees of :smug: ^_^

 

Like as not it isn't though, and yes I would have thought years of the bore being open before LTT went for his finalattack - but I tend to take the most pessimistic possibilities when I am unsure of the facts.

 

  The thing that gets me is I never really considered this before. We are led to see the prison being destroyed as effectively the end of the world. Yet the world existed in that state for a decent amount of time. Time for a complete re-read? :p

[Rocky_Outcrop]

I really want to know what the whole deal is with that time period. Have you seen "The Devil's Advocate"? I very much doubt the Dark One is going to be like that.

[Luckers]

My point is the bore was open for weeks at least (as I read it, Mierin has to turn into lanfear etc between the opening and the 100 companions sealing it) the first time.

 

The dark one still seems to have worked through proxies in the physical world, and was unable to unmake the pattern or any of that shit.  

 

Actually it was open for somewhere between fifty and a hundred years before the War even began, and the war lasted for ten years after that. The bore itself did not allow complete freedom--he could even then only get a pinky finger through it. And yes, it will still be that small--though the the Dark One may have weakened the bore below the patch. In effect made it worse.

 

But in terms of 'the end of the world'. No, the seals breaking will not immediately give the Dark One his freedom, or allow him to destroy the world. It will make the things we've already seen--the corruptions from his touch--far worse. The period between the drilling of the bore and the beginning of the War are called the Collapse (as in the collapse of civilisation), and thats with the Age of Legenders having ways to deal with effects of the Dark One's touch--they could modulate the weather and keep it good, they could seed-singing to create food resistant to corruption.

 

They may even have had ways to stabalize reality.

[sumquy]

Do we even know if the seals are still intact? I remember back in KoD when the rippling effect went over the Shaido camp and where Perrin was, thinking that maybe that was the last seal breaking.

[ed2funy]

I think Luckers is still drunk ;)

 

So, the Bore doesn't allow immediate and complete freedom of all that is good evil?

 

I wonder how long it will take the DO to do some damage before they kill him/seal him off.

 

EDIT NEW: I think like 3 and a half are.

[dflinn]

I am just speculating and have NO facts to back this up but throwing it out there anyway.

Imagine the DO's prison being the size of your front door. Lanfear "bored" a hole into his prison the size of a doorknob. Enough that the DO's could have a small but direct link to the world. But to completely escape, the entire door has to be open. While the DO worked to break free, Lews Therin and the 100 companions had time to be ready to reseal the prison as soon as the door opened. You have to remove the old seals before you can put a fresh/new seal on his prison. Clear away the rubble. Anyway, if I am way wrong dont blast me. This is just what popped in my head as I was reading above.

 

OOps Lucker posted as I was posting. So looks like I wasnt far from the mark.

[thewalrus777]

Yeah even though the size of the bore is only big enough to barely let a finger through of the DO to influence things. Without the DR to reseal the Bore, just the finger that is touching, does extreme amounts of damage to the pattern. You see, evrything is in cycles. It all comes full circle. In the AoL it's stated that they DID NOT know the DO exsisted until Lanfear bored into his prison. Thus starting the 100 Collapse. Can't start the Collapse without the DO coming into existence. It was sealed but not completely, and will be resealed completely again. It's a cycle. Rand will seal the DO away completely and another "AoL" will come again. Women and Men working together to do those same wonders from past days. And they'll eventually forget about the DO's presence...again. Ishamael had the right of it at the beginning of EoTW. Every age has a struggle with DO eventually, and each of those ages alternate opening the Bore initially, sealing it partially, and then sealing it completely again. It just goes araound, and around.

[cleantoe]

Yeah even though the size of the bore is only big enough to barely let a finger through of the DO to influence things. Without the DR to reseal the Bore, just the finger that is touching, does extreme amounts of damage to the pattern. You see, evrything is in cycles. It all comes full circle. In the AoL it's stated that they DID NOT know the DO exsisted until Lanfear bored into his prison. Thus starting the 100 Collapse. Can't start the Collapse without the DO coming into existence. It was sealed but not completely, and will be resealed completely again. It's a cycle. Rand will seal the DO away completely and another "AoL" will come again. Women and Men working together to do those same wonders from past days. And they'll eventually forget about the DO's presence...again. Ishamael had the right of it at the beginning of EoTW. Every age has a struggle with DO eventually, and each of those ages alternate opening the Bore initially, sealing it partially, and then sealing it completely again. It just goes araound, and around.

 

No, I don't think so for two reasons:

 

1) RJ already said in some interview that this age was "unique" or something like that, if i recall correctly. So something new has to happen other than just a resealing of the Bore that's happened in every other cycle.

 

2) If Rand does just do a reseal like in every cycle, then wtf is the point of reading the series? We'd basically be reading about one age of the cycle that happens every cycle. I will never forgive BS and RJ if this is the case. Sure the series will still be entertaining and fun to read, but my god, what a let down. For RJ to tell us this great story of a hero with ups and downs that goes to fight against impossible odds who only ends up doing what's always been done in their world would TOTALLY suck.

 

I think that something will be different this age. I think the DO will be permanently relegated into his little hole.

[thewalrus777]

See, now your just throwing out the telling of the story all together, just because the battle between DR and the DO has been happening since the beginning of time. WOW.

 

There isn't anything different about this age. Unique maybe, but the purpose IS the same. And to completely be rid of the DO is just not possible. You have to have that balance of good and evil. RJ just happened to pick Rand's journey as the focal point of the series. The struggle is the story. Just because the struggle has happened time and again doesn't detract from the power of what's being written.

 

And might i add, that the beginning of the first chapter in each book indicates that there is a cycle that has come and gone, and will only keep on going. And btw, a complete reseal, does NOT happen every age. It goes from being completely sealed shut, to being open, to being partially sealed, to being completely sealed again. The fact that we are in the story of it being possibly completely resealed again, shouldn't dissapoint you.

[Luckers]

I'm actually inclined to agree with Cleantoe. RJ had to have a reason for telling the story in this Age. Maybe its because some random convergence allows for the final resolution of this age old conflict.

[Agitel]

And might i add, that the beginning of the first chapter in each book indicates that there is a cycle that has come and gone, and will only keep on going. And btw, a complete reseal, does NOT happen every age. It goes from being completely sealed shut, to being open, to being partially sealed, to being completely sealed again. The fact that we are in the story of it being possibly completely resealed again, shouldn't dissapoint you.

 

Where do you get that? We've only seen two out of seven Ages.

[thewalrus777]

IMO, it's the fact that Ishamael presumably has direct information from the DO, to conincide with his findings in research with his philosophy. I'm just only stating an opinion. We don't know for fact if their will be a complete resolution or finality to the struggle between good and evil. It just seems to me that the balance would be upset if you in essence, kill the DO. To the point were it would severely damage the pattern. To all things there is a balance. And to not have something opposite the Creator, would just be weird. Like i said it's just an opinion.