The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[metria31183]

Rand will not be able to heal his hand by entering the world of dreams in the flesh.

 

Egwene traveled to Salidar by entering the world of dreams in the flesh.  She rode her phantom Bela, and made the pain from her beatings (meeting her toh with the Wise Ones) fade.  As soon as she stepped out of the world of dreams into the real world, the pain returned. 

 

I deserve the Idiot Award for the day then.  I completely forgot about this.

 

All right then all, carry on, go about your business.  Nothing to see here.

[NetSlider]

I wouldn't dismiss your theory yet. There might be more to it. Egwene might have not went an extra step to take her pain away permanently.

[metria31183]

I wouldn't dismiss your theory yet. There might be more to it. Egwene might have not went an extra step to take her pain away permanently.

 

Possibly.  Rand was fighting for his life.  Egwene was just trying to take away tht butthurt (hehe).  Admittedly, the healing his hand part was far fetched.  I'm not willing to dismiss the other part of my theory just yet.  I just started on a re-read of the whole series so we will see.  I'm finding lots of little things I missed.  I found an example of Moiraine drawing strength from Lan in tEotW when I was listening to it on audiobook a couple of weeks ago.

[lilltempest]

How about the Aiel prophecy? that if they ever fail AS again, the AS will destroy them. Has this been discussed much?

 

Honestly, I doubt the AS even remember what happened with the Aiel, and if they do, I can't imagine them caring... the Aiel had to be reminded by Rand going through the columns, and it doesn't seem too likely that many AS would've done research on this.

 

The AS may not have done research on it, but they now have an Amyrlin that intends to force all channelers to be tied to the White Tower. Egwene could very well attempt to force them to accept the WT's (specifically her) authority, thereby "destroying" them in the a very different way than they expect. The remnants would be the Shaido that went back to the Waste, while the "destroyed" Aiel will be forced to serve the White Tower and lose their previous way of life.

[lilltempest]

And just one more idea to throw on the fire...

 

I don't know if it's  been mentioned (I've only made it to about page 22 of this thread), but what if it has to do with Moggy's comments on the sad bracelets? She basically told Nyn in tSR that eventually the man could get control of the link. If Rand is collared again - perhaps by the WT? - this could come into play. 

[mike-cook]

im convinced its something to do with Alanna. In book 4 Verin tells Perrin to not trust Alanna and then she goes and bonds Rand. I also never understood her emotional state since bonding Rand. She's a weirdo.

[lillcheese]

How about the Aiel prophecy? that if they ever fail AS again, the AS will destroy them. Has this been discussed much?

 

Honestly, I doubt the AS even remember what happened with the Aiel, and if they do, I can't imagine them caring... the Aiel had to be reminded by Rand going through the columns, and it doesn't seem too likely that many AS would've done research on this.

 

The AS may not have done research on it, but they now have an Amyrlin that intends to force all channelers to be tied to the White Tower. Egwene could very well attempt to force them to accept the WT's (specifically her) authority, thereby "destroying" them in the a very different way than they expect. The remnants would be the Shaido that went back to the Waste, while the "destroyed" Aiel will be forced to serve the White Tower and lose their previous way of life.

 

I don't get the impression that Egwene is going to use force.  I certainly don't see her forcing the Aiel - she has too much respect for them.  The Windfinders though, they could use a bit of forcing.  The whole society is obnoxious.  (I'm on WH right now and damn, I forgot how horrid they are.)

[ed2funy]

agreed!

 

Egwene has lived the Aiel...

she will not want to force them...she will keep trying to bring them in..and maybe we will see a sort of deal like that with the "horrid" Sea Folk (agreed again), but this time the AS will be more on equal footing....

 

We might see Wise Ones teaching AS in the Tower...

who know...Wise Ones know how to use battle weaves...i think...or at least they can use them quicker....

[Blackhoof]

From what we saw of the Seanchan attack on the Wite Tower, that random wilder in Andor could be more effective at defending themselves than the Aes Sedai.  :) I mean, honestly, 3000 years of dominance and they get massacred by 50 damane (There were 300 AS in the tower at the time), 200 soldiers, and a few Bloodknives.

[Lord_Mat]

In book 6 when Taim present's Rand with the seal Lews Therin Telamon was telling rand to break the seal.

[emyali]

From what we saw of the Seanchan attack on the Wite Tower, that random wilder in Andor could be more effective at defending themselves than the Aes Sedai.  :) I mean, honestly, 3000 years of dominance and they get massacred by 50 damane (There were 300 AS in the tower at the time), 200 soldiers, and a few Bloodknives.

 

thats because:

 

1. the seanchen took them by surprise, at the middle of the night while they were sleeping.

2. they were fractionized, and after realizing the attack they have had no idea about how to organize themselves to defend the white tower.

3. mostly were in utter shock that some one actually got the gut to attack the might white tower.

4. the state of the tower b4 the attack helped the seanchen in their raid, for the majority of Aes Sedai thought first about themselves, then thought about their ajah..

 

 

Sure Egwene will recover that, and put some plan to organize the whole tower against any other attack from the seanchen or any one else.

[Blackhoof]

But still, the POV we get from Adelora (sp?) shows us that (assuming that the average Aes Seai was in the same mental and emotional state) the average Aes Sedai lost all vestiges of the fabled Aes sedai calm and didn't even have the balls to strike back. You'd think that they could at least be able to shoot some fireballs or at least defend themselves.

[emyali]

But still, the POV we get from Adelora (sp?) shows us that (assuming that the average Aes Seai was in the same mental and emotional state) the average Aes Sedai lost all vestiges of the fabled Aes sedai calm and didn't even have the balls to strike back. You'd think that they could at least be able to shoot some fireballs or at least defend themselves.

 

alot of the Aes Sedai already fought back, but they didnt achieve much progress, because they werent used to the situation as much as the Sul'dam and damane

dont forget that the seanchen sent their best in this raid, and they were very organized and work on a plan.. (attack, capture any Aes Sedai u find, take her to the toraken and leave)

the seanchen got the advantage of already knowing what they r going to face, and the target of their raid.. add to that they r sooooo full of self assurance and confidence on the contrary of the Aes Sedai on this stage.

 

 

 

mmmmm.. i think now ur posts and mine are off this topic .. sorry for all readers for that

 

[Ashaman Kovan]

im convinced its something to do with Alanna. In book 4 Verin tells Perrin to not trust Alanna and then she goes and bonds Rand. I also never understood her emotional state since bonding Rand. She's a weirdo.

 

You bond yourself to a man who is going insane (Was) and has the entire weight of the world on his shoulders and see if your moods don't fluctuate a little bit.

[Blackhoof]

She shouldn't have bonded him in the first place; can you imagine a better way to make him distrust her and all Aes Sedai in general?

[Ashaman Kovan]

She shouldn't have bonded him in the first place; can you imagine a better way to make him distrust her and all Aes Sedai in general?

 

I'm not arguing that. I'm just giving the evidence that compensates for her weird moods.

[Blackhoof]

I

She shouldn't have bonded him in the first place; can you imagine a better way to make him distrust her and all Aes Sedai in general?

 

I'm not arguing that. I'm just giving the evidence that compensates for her weird moods.

 

I know, i'm just stating my opinion, is all.

[Calderis]

But still, the POV we get from Adelora (sp?) shows us that (assuming that the average Aes Seai was in the same mental and emotional state) the average Aes Sedai lost all vestiges of the fabled Aes sedai calm and didn't even have the balls to strike back. You'd think that they could at least be able to shoot some fireballs or at least defend themselves.

 

Egwene had another advantage here.

 

Some of the AS may have been able to fight back at first, when the thought the To'Raken were darkspawn, but once they knew it was the Seanchan, and that they were intent on capture and not kills, the oaths would have kept them from using the power as a weapon.

 

Egwene has no such problem.

[Blackhoof]

If you see a bunch of strange people flying aroung on winged snakes with channelers who are shooting fireballs and lightning at you, the general consensus would be that you were in mortal danger, enough to fight back and not run away like a panzy. The Aes Sedai did an abysmal job at defending themselves and fighting back, they were all useless. Couldn't even form circles and prevent shielding.

[Calderis]

The oaths are something that are extremely literal though. "general consensus wouldn't be enough. unless the life of a sister or warder were in immediate danger, the oaths would hold.

[Blackhoof]

*explosion rocks the tower*

Warder: Quickly, Marien Sedai, shoot fireballs at those lizard things before they kill us!

*more fiery explosions*

Marien Sedai: Mmmmm.... sorry, i dont feel in enough danger too attack them, looks like i'll have to wait.

*Warder perishes in explosion*

Marien Sedai: Mmmm.... i think that i am almost feeling in danger.

[Calderis]

lots of stuff in the tower was goin on internally. You make it sound like every AS and warder were in range of falling blasts.

 

The very nature of this attack shows that the external blasts were more a distraction from the actual raid than anything else.

 

The only place I can see the seanchan intentionally killing in this raid is with warder's, or if they couldn't handle the situation (and then the knives after the pullout of course).

 

Anyone without a warder, who'd realized they were to be captured rather than killed would be bound by the oaths, unless they had a warder with them, who they knew would be killed and thus they could protect.

 

I know I'm not going to change your mind here, but I am not going to agree with you on this one. The AS were at a disadvantage due to the split in the tower, and the internal politics at the time. Combined with the weaknesses imposed by the oath rod when dealing with humans...

[Thermos]

im convinced its something to do with Alanna. In book 4 Verin tells Perrin to not trust Alanna and then she goes and bonds Rand. I also never understood her emotional state since bonding Rand. She's a weirdo.

 

I had wondered about that too, but I think if Verin knew her to be Black Ajah, her name would've come up when Egwene was reviewing the lists Verin gave her.  So if there's something significant about the warning and about Alanna, it's probably not that shes a darkfriend.

[Dolphineus]

She shouldn't have bonded him in the first place; can you imagine a better way to make him distrust her and all Aes Sedai in general?

 

I'm not arguing that. I'm just giving the evidence that compensates for her weird moods.

 

There is a much better explanation for her fluctuating moods ... one of her warders was killed by Whitecloaks when she arrived in the Two Rivers.  We have heard Aes Sedai (Leanne, I think) state that losing a warder could leave her in tears most nights for almost a year.

[Dolphineus]

Also, about the Aes Sedai's lackluster response to the Seanchan attack, you have to remember they didn't believe Egwene.  She told them what the Seanchan did, but they completely poo-poo'd her.  Elaida forbid people to discuss the Seanchan. 

 

Most Aes Sedai were not prepared for the reality of what the Seanchan have done with their adam.  Made channelers into perfect weapons.  No hesitation, no doubt, no oaths in the way.  Egwene was the only person in the tower prepared for this.  The first thing Egwene did was not strike back, but to ensure that she and the novices/accepted with her would not be easily collared or shielded.  She knew that an Aes Sedai cut off from the source is pretty much useless.  She created circles and retreived sa'angreal from the storerooms.  Once she had taken those preliminary steps, she struck back. 

 

Did any sisters who weren't with Egwene's groups link?  Two sisters from different ajahs would barely talk to one another, let alone trust each other enough to link.  Take their ignorance of the Seanchan and couple that with the state of the tower, and you have a target that wouldn't offer much resistance.  The Seanchan didn't know any of this, so they will regard the raid as incredibly successful.  If it weren't for Egwene, the tower would have been almost completely routed.