The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[mossman87]

Nah, Birgitte's still tied as far as I'm aware.

[Shadow Rider]

The biggest problem I see is that Moghedien ripping Birgitte out nearly killed her so Nyneave is probably going to have to find another way.

 

Nyneve could do it better than Moggy....when she figures out how.

[mossman87]

The biggest problem I see is that Moghedien ripping Birgitte out nearly killed her so Nyneave is probably going to have to find another way.

 

Nyneve could do it better than Moggy....when she figures out how.

 

I find it better if he came out naked and almost dying.. that sound weird to say, but it'd be almost a symbolic rebirth.

[sonieb33]

Thanks to another person's post in another thread I think it's Moiraine and Thom. In book 4 is where Moiraine tells Egwene that she could wager that she knows the face of the man she will marry better than either of them knows that of their future husbands. (TSR ch. 6) Then in book 6 Mat finally gives the letter from Moiraine to Thom.

 

I thought the warmth of Moiraine's letter to Thom was kind of strange but I never took it further. Now that the other person mentioned it it makes SOO much sense.

 

Egwene even has a dream about Thom reaching down to retrieve Moiraine's gem that she always wears.

 

The fact that Moiraine knows it's going to happen and mentions it for the ONLY time in book 4 and the letter finally reaches Thom in book 6 makes it kind of seem like this must be what Brandon was referring to.

 

 

[Val Mickey]

Thanks to another person's post in another thread I think it's Moiraine and Thom. In book 4 is where Moiraine tells Egwene that she could wager that she knows the face of the man she will marry better than either of them knows that of their future husbands. (TSR ch. 6) Then in book 6 Mat finally gives the letter from Moiraine to Thom.

 

I thought the warmth of Moiraine's letter to Thom was kind of strange but I never took it further. Now that the other person mentioned it it makes SOO much sense.

 

Egwene even has a dream about Thom reaching down to retrieve Moiraine's gem that she always wears.

 

The fact that Moiraine knows it's going to happen and mentions it for the ONLY time in book 4 and the letter finally reaches Thom in book 6 makes it kind of seem like this must be what Brandon was referring to.

 

 

 

In tEotW, doesn't Moirane dance? I thought that was for Thom. Like Nynaeve danced. For Lan. Seems like something a woman would do.

[mossman87]

Thanks to another person's post in another thread I think it's Moiraine and Thom. In book 4 is where Moiraine tells Egwene that she could wager that she knows the face of the man she will marry better than either of them knows that of their future husbands. (TSR ch. 6) Then in book 6 Mat finally gives the letter from Moiraine to Thom.

 

I thought the warmth of Moiraine's letter to Thom was kind of strange but I never took it further. Now that the other person mentioned it it makes SOO much sense.

 

Egwene even has a dream about Thom reaching down to retrieve Moiraine's gem that she always wears.

 

The fact that Moiraine knows it's going to happen and mentions it for the ONLY time in book 4 and the letter finally reaches Thom in book 6 makes it kind of seem like this must be what Brandon was referring to.

 

 

 

It's 3:30am so apologies I'm probably reading this wrong, but what is the BUT here exactly?  All of this stuff has been known for a long time, I wasn't even aware any of this was a secret to anyone, it's been a huge plotline.

[sonieb33]

It's 3:30am so apologies I'm probably reading this wrong, but what is the BUT here exactly?  All of this stuff has been known for a long time, I wasn't even aware any of this was a secret to anyone, it's been a huge plotline.

 

So Brandon's overlooked plotline has been figured out a long time ago? Definitively? So much so that there's no more room for speculation?

 

As for me, I just reread the books for the second time...and up until recently I didn't have much time to hang out on forums. Thanks to the economy I find I have a lot of idle time recently and this is all new news to me. Sorry if I'm not up to speed but I didn't start this thread and I didn't even revive it after it sat stagnant for a few years. I merely gave my personal opinion about it. Are you saying I was right then?

[DocBean]

Are you saying I was right then?

 

I think what he's saying is that this theory has been discussed a lot on the forums.

Brandon's big But has been described as something he's never seen discussed on the forums.

 

 

 

[aunt_pol]

Gaaah I hate when I accidentally delete my whole post just before posting.

 

Anywho, I just wanted to row in on the Rand-being-ripped-out-of-TAR ideer. Now, far as I can make out, Birgitte wasn't hanging round TAR as your common or garden variety of dead folk, she's tied to the Wheel, and hauled out at need. Presumably regular dead people go somewhere else, or TAR would be thronged.

Now I know Rand's not exactly a regular guy either, but I seem to remember it being said somewhere that he's not in the precise same category as Birgitte, Gaidal et al, but I wouldn't be surprised if his post death lodgings are somewhat different.

 

Still, Nyn is def gonna heal someone toes up!

[mossman87]

Gaaah I hate when I accidentally delete my whole post just before posting.

 

Anywho, I just wanted to row in on the Rand-being-ripped-out-of-TAR ideer. Now, far as I can make out, Birgitte wasn't hanging round TAR as your common or garden variety of dead folk, she's tied to the Wheel, and hauled out at need. Presumably regular dead people go somewhere else, or TAR would be thronged.

Now I know Rand's not exactly a regular guy either, but I seem to remember it being said somewhere that he's not in the precise same category as Birgitte, Gaidal et al, but I wouldn't be surprised if his post death lodgings are somewhat different.

 

Still, Nyn is def gonna heal someone toes up!

 

I doubt it, at least he doesn't make it sound different:

 

Q: "Is [the Dragon] soul born in any other Age, or only at the advent and (theoretically, of course) the closing of the Third Age, as the Dragon/the Dragon Reborn?"

RJ: This soul is one of the Heroes, and bound to the Wheel, spun out as the Pattern wills.  "It" is born in other Ages, but in a non-Dragon incarnation, to suit the pattern of that Age.  In the course of this answer, he related this to why Hawkwing calls Rand "Lews Therin" at Falme--because Hawkwing recognizes this soul.  This didn't really tell me why he specifically calls him "Lews Therin", but apparently they've been hangin' together in Tel'aran'rhiod and the etiquette there is to call each other by the name of your last incarnation.

 

And lately I've been thinking TAR is the collective conscience of everyone in that world, that's all just in my crazy mind though.

[aunt_pol]

Fair 'nuf so, case closed!

[rm1759]

Gaaah I hate when I accidentally delete my whole post just before posting.

 

Anywho, I just wanted to row in on the Rand-being-ripped-out-of-TAR ideer. Now, far as I can make out, Birgitte wasn't hanging round TAR as your common or garden variety of dead folk, she's tied to the Wheel, and hauled out at need. Presumably regular dead people go somewhere else, or TAR would be thronged.

Now I know Rand's not exactly a regular guy either, but I seem to remember it being said somewhere that he's not in the precise same category as Birgitte, Gaidal et al, but I wouldn't be surprised if his post death lodgings are somewhat different.

 

Still, Nyn is def gonna heal someone toes up!

 

 

But isn't the dragon tied to the wheel?  I would think of all heroes to be tied to the wheel, he would be first on the list?  I believ in TGH, Hawkwing tells rand he has fought with him as many times as against him, and also mentions something along the lines of "even though your face is different now" or something like that...

 

 

I have to admit though, this theory does have merit. The only flaw I see is that I would assume if Nyn rips him out of T'A'R', his hand would be whole, and THAT has been discussed quite a bit....

[Juggler]

Just started re-reading book 4 and have noticed some things - There is mention of "healing stilling is as likely as healing a lost hand" which would be interesting and the thing I reckon most likely.

 

Thom and moiranine are going to get married. Moiraine in the stone "I wager I know the face of the man I'll marry better than either of you" then looks like she's said too much. mixed with the tower of genji theme for the new book and thom always saying how she's a handsome woman.

[aunt_pol]

Sorry, I just can't see how Thom & Moiraine could possibly be the BUT. Ever since she was sittin' pattin' his knee in the Stone, then her comment to the Wondergirls, and finally her letter to Thom, I think that romance has been fairly clearly flagged. I for one just took it as a given.

 

My money's on a) the Watchers in TAR, b) the red crystal throne in Rhuidean, or c) perhaps Nyn dragging Rand from TAR.

 

Not long now! Anyone see BS's comment on Facebook? ToM is gonna be darker than TGS... I know, the Last BAttle's coming closer so it's not gonna be happy times, but wow...

[WolfDragonFox]

Hey Juggler, I like the theory on the healing of the hand...nice catch, that would be something that absolutely qualifies as mostly unnoticed and very few guesses about it by my count. Its a small mention seemingly in passing and unworthy of notice until we see the possibility of Rand getting his sword hand back and being all healed up.  Is it going to make a BIG happenings list maybe maybe not, the question is does he benefit Greatly from getting it back.

[farthammer]

In TFoH Siuan tells Bryne that she, Morgase, and Elaida's meeting and subsequent humiliation of Bryne was part of an effort to set up a young noble Dulain as one who could unite Murandy.  Later the effort turned out to be wasted apparently as he was killed by an arrow during a supposed sheep raid.  Murandy shares the border with Andor in the northern part of the territory.  Incidentally this is also where Elaida herself is originally from (north Murandy) and belonging to a minor house there.  I think this was a scheme by Elaida after convincing the other AS to essentially rule that nation, using her connections (possibly from the house as Dulain or close to it), under the assumption her advisory role to Morgase would also secure Andor.

 

I think his death is one of the odd or suspicious political assassinations that have surrounded Andor particularly with Thom, though he was not a part of the court when this was happening.

 

Well I'll throw more of a speculative bit at the end of it.  I think this is one of the hints we see throughout the series of a semi secret society or network of non noble, non militant mens organizations or fraternities that act as a counterbalance to the AS.  Not unlike the Freemasons or something.  I think people like Thom, Tam, Master Gill, and various other 'village council' groups throughout the westlands are connected through this.  Occasionally when the need is great performing some of these assassinations among other things.

[aunt_pol]

That's .... interesting. I'm not sure if it's not a *bit* conspiracy theory, but it is interesting! However, Basel Gill always sounded like he'd row in behind his Queen in all but catastrophic circumstances.

[farthammer]

Oh yeah I meant to include him as someone who isn't plotting against his Queen but rather helping keep someone as power hungry as Elaida away from securing too much influence over her.  I found it surprising how nuts Elaida really was and how little damage she managed to do in Andor.  She had her foretellings yes but we also saw how she kept big secrets, even right in front of her when Rand was there.

[aunt_pol]

Well don't forget, some of her more extreme nuttiness, in the later books, may have had an element of Fain Exposure in it.

[farthammer]

Maybe, she does have a vicious streak going all the way back to her treatment of Moiraine and Siuan as novices.  She probably got worse but definitely an oddball since she was young.

[bobothebarbarian]

Are you saying I was right then?

 

I think what he's saying is that this theory has been discussed a lot on the forums.

Brandon's big But has been described as something he's never seen discussed on the forums.

HA HA this made me laugh well now we have discussed Brandon's big But ;D

[Rebop]

Dr. Seuss lives in the Wheel of Time.

 

From an earlier post. "**As to the Dr. Seuss Theory: The Mat In The Hat." If the trip to the Tower of Ghenjei closely parallels the Cat in the Hat story we will have our proof. Mat as the cat in the hat, Thom as Thing One and Noal? as Thing Two.

The thing that led me down this path is Rand as the Grinch who stole Christmas. He was about to steal "Christmas" from the Seanchan when he had his Grinch moment with his mad dash to the top of Mount Crumpit aka Dragonmount. Rand then has a conversation with himself, as he is about to destroy everything, that (very) closely mirrors the Grinch's conversation.

I have not figured out what book Perin parallels.

I believe the last book in the series will mirror The Lorax.

 

[navahgar]

Recently been reading the relevant books, and I wondered whether anyone had suggested Rand's anger as a potential BUT.  It seems to me that in books 4 and 5 especially, everyone (including Rand himself) is talking about how angry Rand gets now when he was much calmer in his youth.  Of course I'm sure people will offhandedly dismiss this as standard character development, but it really is surprising the number of times it is mentioned, and specifically mentioned as being different from the way Rand used to be.  Maybe this is somehow related to a third person influencing him (other than the Ishamael/Moridin influence).  Most likely this theory will go the way of my suggestion that the Dark Lord's servants' lack of use of balefire is ridiculous, but I just thought I'd put it out there.

[Val Mickey]

I have a potential winner.

 

Hold before sept, sept before clan, but Aiel before wetlanders.

 

So why the hell are Bain and Chiad following Faile? Even after finding He Who Comes with the Dawn, they stick with her.

That's like abandoning the Messiah to follow Ben Hur. (I'm suspicious of everything now, even Loial's beard!)  :)

 

BAIN. WOULD YOU BE NAE'BLIS? :D

[Doselan]

Has Slayer/Lord Luc been mentioned? 

 

In book 4 he hid in the Tower of Genji in the dream world and was harmed/run off by Perrin, but not killed.  Could he make another appearance in ToM when Mat goes in? 

 

It also seems he killed rand's real father, and was rand's uncle.