The Black Ajah (spoilers for the entire book)

[JenniferL]

This is where you can discuss Verin and the Great Purge.

[Lord of the Morning]

Think egwene did a great job at it, you knew that as soon as it started the BA would warn the others to get out, i think the count was 80 dead between two camps.  By verin's notes that leaves another 120, 80 that escaped and 40 that kept clear of the schism.

 

My belief is that they will go to the BT, my idea is that Taim turned the sisters that went to the BT at the end of KoD to the DO, the BT could quickly become a stronghold for the dark if the BA sisters fled there, setting up for a massive battle next book between channelers.  Rand will win, just based of logain's faction, the massive # of aes sedai and initiates under egwene, not to mention the tower's store of angreal and rand weilding callandor, prolly linked with nyanaeve and aviendha

[ohaitharguiz]

Verin is badass. /thread

[Thorn]

It is kinda weird that Egwene begins her reign as Amyrlin with an almost-literal bloodbath. In almost any other context it'd be reign-of-terror horrifying, but -- literally, satanist anarchist witches who cannot be jailed!  

 

Question: why did Verin choose that particular moment to spill her guts? My guess, unless I missed a salient detail: she'd been ordered to kill Egwene, so couldn't put it off any longer .

[Mr. Micawber]

You know what's crazy?

 

She managed to identify the three leaders of the Supreme Council: Alviarin, Galina, and Sheriam. At first I thought Sheriam, eh, well, she's clearly just another BA.

 

But the implication of her conversation following Egwene's successful accusation is that she knew basically the whole membership.

 

I'm floored that someone with out Semirhage's ability to torture or Graendal's strength with Compulsion or any of the Chosen's ability to disguise herself, Verin essentially identified the leadership using not much more than her intellect.

 

Jesus, she's good. She might very well be the most intelligent person in the series.

 

EDIT:

 

Thorn, she herself gave the explanation in KOD.

 

The Last Battle is going to happen very, very, very soon.

 

She wanted to make sure the Light went into the Last Battle without having to worry about the BA suddenly shanking them in the ribs from behind.

[Lord of the Morning]

It is kinda weird that Egwene begins her reign as Amyrlin with an almost-literal bloodbath. In almost any other context it'd be reign-of-terror horrifying, but -- literally, satanist anarchist witches who cannot be jailed!  

 

Question: why did Verin choose that particular moment to spill her guts? My guess, unless I missed a salient detail: she'd been ordered to kill Egwene, so couldn't put it off any longer .

 

I think it was the imminence of the last battle that led to verin's big reveal, verin knew that TG is coming, and knew that a tower holding 200 Black sisters would fail very quickly at the last battle, she saw egwene as the only person strong enough to carry out the final stage of her 70 year plan.  It is pretty friggin lucky that the Seanchan attack came almost immediately after, so that Elaida gets kidnapped, and egwene can rebuild the tower on a base of purely light side aes sedai.

 

I do agree that egwene's reign started on a sour note, but that's not her fault in the slightest, it's the flawed aes sedai system of tradition that forebade even mention of the BA, that let the BA get such a grip around the tower's throat.

[JenniferL]

We also still don't know what plans Verin put in motion with Mat. He does have that sealed letter from her.

[Mr. Micawber]

It is kinda weird that Egwene begins her reign as Amyrlin with an almost-literal bloodbath. In almost any other context it'd be reign-of-terror horrifying, but -- literally, satanist anarchist witches who cannot be jailed!  

 

Question: why did Verin choose that particular moment to spill her guts? My guess, unless I missed a salient detail: she'd been ordered to kill Egwene, so couldn't put it off any longer .

 

I think it was the imminence of the last battle that led to verin's big reveal, verin knew that TG is coming, and knew that a tower holding 200 Black sisters would fail very quickly at the last battle, she saw egwene as the only person strong enough to carry out the final stage of her 70 year plan.  It is pretty friggin lucky that the Seanchan attack came almost immediately after, so that Elaida gets kidnapped, and egwene can rebuild the tower on a base of purely light side aes sedai.

 

I do agree that egwene's reign started on a sour note, but that's not her fault in the slightest, it's the flawed aes sedai system of tradition that forebade even mention of the BA, that let the BA get such a grip around the tower's throat.

 

Mon seigneur de la matinée, you put it a hell of a lot better than I did, seeing as you managed zero (0) references to brutal prison stabbings.

[Lord of the Morning]

We also still don't know what plans Verin put in motion with Mat. He does have that sealed letter from her.

 

I wondered about that, verin wrote that letter before she knew which one it was (perrin or Mat), so the plans wouldn't be centred around anything specific about mat, more about his ta'veren...ness, (Oh no, i'm doing it as well).  Mat's journey is about to get veeeery interesting methinks.

[ohaitharguiz]

 

 

Question: why did Verin choose that particular moment to spill her guts? My guess, unless I missed a salient detail: she'd been ordered to kill Egwene, so couldn't put it off any longer .

 

Either her, or Rand, is what I thought.

[Lord of the Morning]

It is kinda weird that Egwene begins her reign as Amyrlin with an almost-literal bloodbath. In almost any other context it'd be reign-of-terror horrifying, but -- literally, satanist anarchist witches who cannot be jailed!  

 

Question: why did Verin choose that particular moment to spill her guts? My guess, unless I missed a salient detail: she'd been ordered to kill Egwene, so couldn't put it off any longer .

 

I think it was the imminence of the last battle that led to verin's big reveal, verin knew that TG is coming, and knew that a tower holding 200 Black sisters would fail very quickly at the last battle, she saw egwene as the only person strong enough to carry out the final stage of her 70 year plan.  It is pretty friggin lucky that the Seanchan attack came almost immediately after, so that Elaida gets kidnapped, and egwene can rebuild the tower on a base of purely light side aes sedai.

 

I do agree that egwene's reign started on a sour note, but that's not her fault in the slightest, it's the flawed aes sedai system of tradition that forebade even mention of the BA, that let the BA get such a grip around the tower's throat.

 

Mon seigneur de la matinée, you put it a hell of a lot better than I did, seeing as you managed zero (0) references to brutal prison stabbings.

But that's what gives your posts that certain flair  ;)

[lillcheese]

Re timing:  I think she was holding out as long as she thought she could to find out who Mesaana was in the tower.

 

Re Mat's letter:  She had a bunch of letters. I bet she had one for Perrin, Rand, and anyone else she might run into in that time.  But what was in the letter?  Could she betray herself in writing before the hour of her death if she knew it wouldn't be opened until after her death?

[Mr. Micawber]

 

 

Question: why did Verin choose that particular moment to spill her guts? My guess, unless I missed a salient detail: she'd been ordered to kill Egwene, so couldn't put it off any longer .

 

Either her, or Rand, is what I thought.

 

She indirectly told us who she had been ordered to kill.

 

Mat and Perrin, as per Elan Morin's standing order. She was given portraits of them by another Darkfriend.

 

There is also a standing No Kill order on Rand; I still suspect that has nothing to do with Elan Morin's link, and everything to do with the Big Guy not wanting anyone to steal his kill.

 

He's an Eleventy Billionth Level Elder God of Absolute Evil. Do you have any idea how much XP it takes to level up when you're where he is? The Dragon's the only possible solution other than killing billions and billions of people in the same excruciating way Cartman and the other guys had to kill forest pigs or whatever to beat that Griefer.

[trench]

We also still don't know what plans Verin put in motion with Mat. He does have that sealed letter from her.

 

I wondered about that, verin wrote that letter before she knew which one it was (perrin or Mat), so the plans wouldn't be centred around anything specific about mat, more about his ta'veren...ness, (Oh no, i'm doing it as well).  Mat's journey is about to get veeeery interesting methinks.

 

She was preety adamant about the 10 days he had to wait to open it. I figured 9 days later she died, and the letter is info on the shadow.

 

Who else got letters as well? Mat saw a bunch in her bag.

[Lord of the Morning]

We also still don't know what plans Verin put in motion with Mat. He does have that sealed letter from her.

 

I wondered about that, verin wrote that letter before she knew which one it was (perrin or Mat), so the plans wouldn't be centred around anything specific about mat, more about his ta'veren...ness, (Oh no, i'm doing it as well).  Mat's journey is about to get veeeery interesting methinks.

 

She was preety adamant about the 10 days he had to wait to open it. I figured 9 days later she died, and the letter is info on the shadow.

 

Who else got letters as well? Mat saw a bunch in her bag.

Oh, i missed that, well I guess there's nothing to do but reread it again ;D

[Majsju]

We also still don't know what plans Verin put in motion with Mat. He does have that sealed letter from her.

 

Also, all the other letters that Mat saw that she had. Seems like she was a busy little Brown before her chat with Egwene.

 

Too bad she never got to find out just how spot on her comment to Egwene was, about her being quite thorough. Egwene found less than ten BA that verin had missed. Out of 200, that is a quiye thorough job indeed.

[Dert]

Wonder whats in the letter, really really curious now.  Could be a list of sisters that are dark near or around Andor.  Or something about snakes and foxes, or maybe one of the sisters with Mat is a darkfriend.  Maybe it's to do with the Horn, been wondering how Mats going to get his sticky paws back on it for a few books now. Lots of things that Mat could be upto in the next book.

 

I don't see the execution of the BA as a sour note, shows that Egwene going to be able to make tough decisions in the future. Though 200 plus sisters being darkfriends is scary, would Aes Sedai be more vunerable to the DO, or is the population of Randland going to have a huge percentage of DF's?

[Mr. Micawber]

Wonder whats in the letter, really really curious now.  Could be a list of sisters that are dark near or around Andor.  Or something about snakes and foxes, or maybe one of the sisters with Mat is a darkfriend.  Maybe it's to do with the Horn, been wondering how Mats going to get his sticky paws back on it for a few books now. Lots of things that Mat could be upto in the next book.

 

I don't see the execution of the BA as a sour note, shows that Egwene going to be able to make tough decisions in the future. Though 200 plus sisters being darkfriends is scary, would Aes Sedai be more vunerable to the DO, or is the population of Randland going to have a huge percentage of DF's?

 

Um, Sheriam provides the answer.

 

Being an AS already predisposes you towards scheming and backstabbing and trying to gain power.

 

Her associates, as she says, are just a little more practiced at it.

 

I'm thinking Friends of the Dark are going to be no more than 10% of the general population, and probably even less, since they seem much less prevalent among the three non-Randland civs running around.

 

The Aiel and the Seanchan in particular have...impressive ways of dissuading people from joining the Dark.

[Mashiara Sedai]

But did Verin tell Mat to wait the 10 days because she said some secrets in the letter that she couldn't until "her final hour?"  Or is there another point to her making him wait at least 10 days?

 

Verin has A LOT of info in her head and I'm sure the letters are passing along info.  She gave Egwene the BA names because that was what Egwene needed from her.  I still think Verin is the one who knows where the Horn of Valere is (Siuan couldn't have been dumb enough to leave it in the Tower).  Also, she seems to know more about anything (or everything) than any other character.

 

I know we had that clue that she was Black, but I really didn't expect her to be. I was SO shocked!  I was even more shocked by Sheriam.  Of course, we had clues about that too.  The rest of list just made my eyes goggle.  It was a very great part of the book.

 

 

~Mashiara

[Majsju]

 I don't see the execution of the BA as a sour note, shows that Egwene going to be able to make tough decisions in the future. Though 200 plus sisters being darkfriends is scary, would Aes Sedai be more vunerable to the DO, or is the population of Randland going to have a huge percentage of DF's?

 

Actually, I think keeping a bunch of them alive but stilled, in order to question them would be the tougher choice. As we have seen, channelers tend to prefer death over stilling.

[Mr. Micawber]

But did Verin tell Mat to wait the 10 days because she said some secrets in the letter that she couldn't until "her final hour?"  Or is there another point to her making him wait at least 10 days?

 

Verin has A LOT of info in her head and I'm sure the letters are passing along info.  She gave Egwene the BA names because that was what Egwene needed from her.  I still think Verin is the one who knows where the Horn of Valere is (Siuan couldn't have been dumb enough to leave it in the Tower).  Also, she seems to know more about anything (or everything) than any other character.

 

I know we had that clue that she was Black, but I really didn't expect her to be. I was SO shocked!  I was even more shocked by Sheriam.  Of course, we had clues about that too.  The rest of list just made my eyes goggle.  It was a very great part of the book.

 

 

~Mashiara

 

It's in the Tower.

 

See Chapter 19 of FOH. Fain grabs his dagger from the same place as the Horn and tells off/scares the fecal matter out of Alviarin, head of the flaming Black Ajah.

 

This chapter always reinforces to me that Fain is way, way, way worse than any Darkfriend, and could probably in his own way go toe to toe even with Rand or the Forsaken.

[µ231282083275]

Though 200 plus sisters being darkfriends is scary, would Aes Sedai be more vunerable to the DO, or is the population of Randland going to have a huge percentage of DF's?

 

it seems like there was a stronger push to recruit aes sedai than general civilians from all the darkfriend povs we got they were the only ones actively seeking new members

 

also they are more vulnerable than the general population

[Mr. Micawber]

Ah, yes, I should have mentioned they're not merely predisposed by temperment, they're predisposed genetically to being Darkfriends, since they can be forcibly converted.

[dmanmiller34]

I bet I know exactly what is in that letter. Verin could Travel. I bet she went into the Tower and retrivedthe Horn Of valere and stashed it some plce for Mat. He had to Promise not to open it before hand because I bet it was in direct violation of her BA orders Thus if its after she is ded taht she is telling this in wriniting it does not break he BA oaths. She side steps them. Verin Totally rocks. It was one of my *gasp* gasp moments when she told egwene that lie.

[adverge]

 

Does Verin's actions absolve her of being a Darkfriend upon her death and redeem her soul for eternity?

 

Could she honestly be classified as a Darkfriend since she was working so hard against them?

 

How would it have been possible to do such a thing for decades without getting caught?

 

What sort of Darkfriend crimes was Verin guilty of and what weight do they have on her soul?