White Tower Reunification Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[coteaz]

Yeah and nynaeve and Rand were almost comatose after that.

 

And yeah it was weird that she wasn't blocked from mogy aswell.

[Ged]

Well Egwene was almost as comatose, although I'm not sure it matters. I'm more surprised that she and the others combined, couldn't take down the Seanchan force. I remember the numbers just not being very high. With the sa'angreal and a circle behind her, she should've been able to take down the few flyers the Seanchan had deployed there. She should've been able to just imprison them with air and weaves too powerful for the damane in any one group to oppose.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

60 Novices and 40 Aes Sedai.  Plus or minus 1 or 2

[GB]

Egwene does some cool stuff throughout the book but she is still missing the point when it comes to Rand, I think.

 

She,like any other Aes Sedai, think that Rand has to be controlled.

 

Moirane started on this line of thinking and in the end she realised that aes sedai has been used to make people dance to their tunes. don't remember the exact words. sorry

 

and Egwene (i do like her as a character), but she is a bit of hypocrite. When it comes to Rand, who she grew up with, she can believe every rumour even the nastiest one but when it comes to Gawyn, she is like amys says to aviendha "the silly girl".

 

I hope that when she meets rand, she is more like  Nynaeve who finally starts to understand Rand.

 

 

[Ged]

I'd say Super-Rand needs to be embarassing a lot of these over-confident people. Its not as if their guidance would've led to any of the prophecies happening. At this point, they should just accept that they have no real idea of how to contribute effectively to the Last Battle, since none of what any of them wanted to do would've led to Rand being where he correctly is.

[Theris]

Am I alone in thinking that Rand doesn't really need all that much guidance?

 

While practically ignoring Moiraine, Rand successfully defeated Ishamael (repeatedly), drove off the initial Seanchan invasion, conquered Tear, and became the Ca'ra'carn. Had he listened to Moiraine he would have attacked Illian, which would probably have been a disaster, as the Aiel were not in great numbers and Sammael was ready. His choices - often directly opposite to Aes Sedai advice - have successfully confirmed prophecy.

 

I find it frustrating that he keeps doing these things, and yet not once has a single Aes Sedai given him any sort of acknowledgment - not once. If I were him I would have exiled Cadsuane long ago. I mean, c'mon - because of her general carelessness in keeping the a'dam, Rand had to go through that horrible experience, and still she can't bring herself to just apologize, but rather directly tries to confront him with "What, you expect an apology?" as if that's some unheard of thing.

 

Also, keep in mind Moiraine's advice to Rand - do not trust *ANY* Aes Sedai. He trusted her, and so took that advice to heart - particularly with the subsequent things the Aes Sedai have done to him. Really, all Aes Sedai think too much of themselves, which is really funny considering Egwene and Nynaeve do the same (despite the fact that most Aes Sedai snobbishness comes from their great age and experience, and Nynaeve and Egwene have neither).

[coteaz]

Thankfully now nynaeve has started seeing rand as moiraine did, not as a dreaded channeller going mad that doesn't know what he is doing, to a man who knows a lot about what he is doing.

[Theris]

Yeah, it's about time.

 

I think my favorite part of the book was the conversation regarding Balefire: Cadsuane, in typical arrogant Aes Sedai fashion, tries to bluff and bluster, calling Rand a child and saying he has no idea what he's playing with; Rand calmly responds that he has seen entire cities burned out of the pattern, and if he is a child, what does that make the rest of them who are effectively 3,000 years his junior?

 

Despite his accomplishments, the prophecies, and the very fact that he is the Dragon *REBORN*, almost all the Aes Sedai insist on treating him as an idiot farmer, if not a mad channeler.

[coteaz]

Yeah well, i wonder what he will pull out of his head, 'i remember 3000 years before the AOL so and so did this and this is how we learned to channel'. etc etc

[BrainFireBob]

The chapter is named "A Fount of Power"

 

She was wielding an incredible amount of Saidar.. she likely had a full circle of novices (12) plus the small amount she could use, funneling through the most powerful S'angreal in the tower. That's gotta be significantly more than Nynaeve could use if she was swatting away shields and blowing up stuff everywhere as if it were nothing.

 

Remember that a circle pushes everybody in the circle to max capacity before burn out. So even tho they were novices.. there were 12.. at max capacity x s'angreal.. tons of power..

 

the only reason they probably didn't notice is because there were about 400 people channeling in the tower. Probably kinda hard to distinguish between what is coming from where at that point.

 

False. In a circle, you can't draw as much as you could otherwise, so it's not as simple as adding the power of one to the poewr of another. This is explained multiple times, including in many glossary entries.

[Hallow]

Yeah, it's about time.

 

I think my favorite part of the book was the conversation regarding Balefire: Cadsuane, in typical arrogant Aes Sedai fashion, tries to bluff and bluster, calling Rand a child and saying he has no idea what he's playing with; Rand calmly responds that he has seen entire cities burned out of the pattern, and if he is a child, what does that make the rest of them who are effectively 3,000 years his junior?

 

Despite his accomplishments, the prophecies, and the very fact that he is the Dragon *REBORN*, almost all the Aes Sedai insist on treating him as an idiot farmer, if not a mad channeler.

 

Thats actually one of the few things I loved abut Rand in his new "Ice cool" state. Finally telling the Aes Sedai to fudge of when they call him child and in experienced when he has seen far more than they ever have.

[fikkie77]

I'm guessing that Cadsuane will swear an oath of fidely to Rand now. It will be the only way left to her to gain his trust and even then every attempt to guide him will ruin it for her.

 

About Egwene's strength in the circle against the Seanchan: she was holding the strongest sa'angreal known for women (the CK is destroyed)! Her strength at that moment surpassed by far that of any channeler ever existed (even Lanfear).

[benr]

Perhaps if Nyn (CALMLY!) tells Caddy her thoughts on Moiraine, and how Moiraine gained at least a level of trust with Rand, maybe, just maybe, Caddy can now work her way back into Rand's good graces with BlackRand hopefully being a thing of the past.

[fikkie77]

Perhaps if Nyn (CALMLY!) tells Caddy her thoughts on Moiraine, and how Moiraine gained at least a level of trust with Rand, maybe, just maybe, Caddy can now work her way back into Rand's good graces with BlackRand hopefully being a thing of the past.

And even the relationship between Rand and Moiraine needed an oath to change into a workable one.

[griz]

Rand will be meeting with Egwene for help with the BT.  Possibly at the beginning once the other group gathers Rand and hears of what happened at the WT.

 

Also I think it's important to remember her "need" she found in the dream world.  She came to the Tinkers.  They will fix the land with that seed singing I think...

[Lambada]

People!

This is the Eqwene thread, not the Rand thread!

I wanted to read opinions on Egwenes plot, not on Rands!

 

 

Now to get back to the question of Egwenes power.

I was under the impression that circles have a resistance element so 2 channelers in a circle won't be as strong as 2 by themselves.

In addition I thought that you have to reach through a sa'angreal yourself, so you couldn't funnel the entire circles power through it. Instead I thought that Egwene pulled her saidar through it and the rest of the novices just added their own normal stength (minus the resistive effect).

 

This would explain how as the sa'angreal gave Egwene back most of her normal strength and when added into a full circle of 13 she would appear to have a huge amount of power - particularly as she chose several of the strongest novices. She would quite possibly ahve been the largest single power wielder in the Tower in the battle. However she would not be strong enough to make mincemeat of the Seanchan like she would have been if she had been at full strength with sa'angreal and full circle.

[Sasie]

It seems a bit silly to me how well Egwene did in the battle to be honest. I fully buy that her circle is better then most Aes sedai yet somehow she managed to train novices to defend themselves better against Damane then fully trained sisters. I can't believe that even the most experienced novices would know nearly enough to defeat Damane. Novices really are not that skilled and she can't have been everywhere at once. How did she manage to train novices well enough to hold their own and protect her back when it took time for them to even learn how to link?

 

I loved Egwene in this book for the most part yet at times it seems she was just a little too much of a perfect Amyrlin to me.

[Lambada]

It seems a bit silly to me how well Egwene did in the battle to be honest. I fully buy that her circle is better then most Aes sedai yet somehow she managed to train novices to defend themselves better against Damane then fully trained sisters. I can't believe that even the most experienced novices would know nearly enough to defeat Damane. Novices really are not that skilled and she can't have been everywhere at once. How did she manage to train novices well enough to hold their own and protect her back when it took time for them to even learn how to link?

 

I loved Egwene in this book for the most part yet at times it seems she was just a little too much of a perfect Amyrlin to me.

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that - I agree with the skill part - I wouldn't have thought teaching shields was very high on the novices learning list.

[Thorn]

It seems a bit silly to me how well Egwene did in the battle to be honest. I fully buy that her circle is better then most Aes sedai yet somehow she managed to train novices to defend themselves better against Damane then fully trained sisters. I can't believe that even the most experienced novices would know nearly enough to defeat Damane. Novices really are not that skilled and she can't have been everywhere at once. How did she manage to train novices well enough to hold their own and protect her back when it took time for them to even learn how to link?

 

The other sisters in the Tower were taken by surprise and disorganized, without clear leadership, and didn't form circles. Egwene had her novices form circles, and because the damane couldn't form links, they couldn't shield the novices. It wasn't a matter of skill or strength -- it was just that the novices had good leadership that got them into circles, and the Seanchan couldn't combat that due to the limitations of the a'dam.

 

Notice that it looks like all/most of the actual attacking was done by Egwene with the sa'angreal. The novice circles appear to have been in an entirely defensive role, and that's not hard to believe, since they couldn't be shielded by the damane.

[lillcheese]

I think the reason Egwene couldn't smack more of the Seanchan was a line of sight issue.  She was working out of one hole in the tower.  The impression I got from Siuan's ground viewpoint was that Seanchan were above and behind Egwene's position, grabbing collared women from top the roof.  Egwene could only blast those that came after her or whose retreating flight plan put them in view.

[Thorn]

I think the reason Egwene couldn't smack more of the Seanchan was a line of sight issue.  She was working out of one hole in the tower.  The impression I got from Siuan's ground viewpoint was that Seanchan were above and behind Egwene's position, grabbing collared women from top the roof.  Egwene could only blast those that came after her or whose retreating flight plan put them in view.

 

I think you're generally right, but there's also just the problem that there were a lot more Seanchan than there were Egwene. We did see her move around a fair bit, but her little group was defending most of the Tower. Wherever she wasn't and Seanchan were, she couldn't do much.

[Rowan Sedai]

It seems a bit silly to me how well Egwene did in the battle to be honest. I fully buy that her circle is better then most Aes sedai yet somehow she managed to train novices to defend themselves better against Damane then fully trained sisters. I can't believe that even the most experienced novices would know nearly enough to defeat Damane. Novices really are not that skilled and she can't have been everywhere at once. How did she manage to train novices well enough to hold their own and protect her back when it took time for them to even learn how to link?

 

I loved Egwene in this book for the most part yet at times it seems she was just a little too much of a perfect Amyrlin to me.

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that - I agree with the skill part - I wouldn't have thought teaching shields was very high on the novices learning list.

 

Actually, there is a very reasonable response to this.  Novices are trained to create balls of fire on their hands, as well as threads of air.  Most novices aren't strong enough to do much with these weaves, however if you add them into a circle their reach and strength would be much greater.  One of the things Egwene showed them was how to uncollar a damane with flows of air.  Once the damane was uncollared she simply stopped, shocked, in all cases.  Then the novices most likely fireballed the soldiers and sul'dam.  That would, also, explain how they captured so many damane.

[Lambada]

Ah yes, i'd forgotten that she showed them how to uncollar the damane.

I withdraw my skill objection.

[elec1cele]

It seems a bit silly to me how well Egwene did in the battle to be honest. I fully buy that her circle is better then most Aes sedai yet somehow she managed to train novices to defend themselves better against Damane then fully trained sisters. I can't believe that even the most experienced novices would know nearly enough to defeat Damane. Novices really are not that skilled and she can't have been everywhere at once. How did she manage to train novices well enough to hold their own and protect her back when it took time for them to even learn how to link?

 

I loved Egwene in this book for the most part yet at times it seems she was just a little too much of a perfect Amyrlin to me.

 

It is mentioned after the battle that many full Aes Sedai were with her as well it seems to me that logically she would have had some of them join in the other circles and they would have been the ones melding the flows.

 

Relevant quote from page 652

Only three novices in Egwene's group of over sixty had died? And only one sister out of some 40 she had gathered

[Ashaman Drasil]

nicola was a major reason y Egwene was elected because she was the one who told the novices about Egwene frets i mean she was hard on Egwene as a novice in salidar then when she goes to the tower she her biggest supporter i smell a foretelling by nicola.