Rand's Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[1eejit]

has anyone considered the "his blood will be spilled" prophesy to be Galad dying?

 

Galad is Rand's half brother, and as far as I know his only living "blood" even if Galad doesn't know this.

 

has this already been shot down?

Nope, though I prefer the idea of it being Elayne's twins either being hurt/killed or born at SG (I believe some blood during childbirth is fetal in origin).

[Declan]

i think Elayne's twins will have NOTHING to do with Rand's blood being spilled at SG. How many months does she have left anyway? She will definitely not give birth there, like anyone would let a pregnant Elayne, Queen of Andor, give birth at SG.... I think it will just be Rand's blood that is spilled. his very own. not his children.

[1eejit]

I can think of some rather nasty people who'd probably quite like to have the pregnant lover of the Dragon Reborn there - and I don't think they'd really care if her guards don't want to "let" it happen.

With Avi gone and herself barely able to channel due to the pregnancy she's as vulnerable as she's ever been.

 

I'm not saying it's what will happen, but it sure is a possibility.

[Ashamandragoran]

I was wondering about the whole the dragon being tied to the earth and how Rand being dark and hard caused the food to spoil.

 

When Moridin orders Graendal to make sure Rand suffers, I guess this means he is aware of Rand's connection to the land right? I mean, this is the first time in the series where we see such an order. We've seen attempts at Rands life, but nothing like this before.

[Tinkerwrks]

In order to break the remaining seals will Rand have to use the TP again?  Since they are made of cuendillar, not even balefire will destroy them.

[Declan]

I can think of some rather nasty people who'd probably quite like to have the pregnant lover of the Dragon Reborn there - and I don't think they'd really care if her guards don't want to "let" it happen.

With Avi gone and herself barely able to channel due to the pregnancy she's as vulnerable as she's ever been.

 

I'm not saying it's what will happen, but it sure is a possibility.

 

putting aside that it would be nasty. think of what you are saying. why would someone who is barely able to hold it together emotionally and is unable to defend herself with the one power (not to mention physically) be anywhere near SG? It's ridiculous. until i read that this happens in the books i wont leave it as an option. My money is that she will give birth before they attack or do whatever at SG.

[Muad Cheade]

In order to break the remaining seals will Rand have to use the TP again?  Since they are made of cuendillar, not even balefire will destroy them.

 

They were weak enough for Moiraine to scrape off a a sliver of it with her belt knife.

[mossman87]

I can think of some rather nasty people who'd probably quite like to have the pregnant lover of the Dragon Reborn there - and I don't think they'd really care if her guards don't want to "let" it happen.

With Avi gone and herself barely able to channel due to the pregnancy she's as vulnerable as she's ever been.

 

I'm not saying it's what will happen, but it sure is a possibility.

 

putting aside that it would be nasty. think of what you are saying. why would someone who is barely able to hold it together emotionally and is unable to defend herself with the one power (not to mention physically) be anywhere near SG? It's ridiculous. until i read that this happens in the books i wont leave it as an option. My money is that she will give birth before they attack or do whatever at SG.

 

Uh, easy.  Kidnapped by the Dark.

 

Not that I believe it'll happen, the kids as the blood thing, but that's a great way to make Rand suffer.

[Declan]

they would have to know that they are Rand's kids first. they don't. by the time they do they will have bigger concerns on their hands, such as armies fighting each other and all of Randland (hopefully) united against them.

[1eejit]

How can you be sure they don't and won't? There could be related Dark Prophecies. Alternatively Fain might be able to sense something...

[jemron]

How can you be sure they don't and won't? There could be related Dark Prophecies. Alternatively Fain might be able to sense something...

 

Also, if Cyndane gets one wiff of the fact that Rand is having children with another woman, she might go crazy and try to get/kill the kids in front of Rand in a fit of rage...  Remember what she almost did to Egwene at the docks in FoH because she thought she was Rand's "lover"?

[mossman87]

they would have to know that they are Rand's kids first. they don't. by the time they do they will have bigger concerns on their hands, such as armies fighting each other and all of Randland (hopefully) united against them.

 

Really they wouldn't have to know Elayne was pregnant.

Demandred knows about Elayne, and there are a ton of DFs in Caemlyn currently, they could just grab her to get to Rand and the fun happens in Shayol Ghul.

 

I dunno why I'm arguing for this since I don't believe it will happen lol, but I'm sure before TGS you never would have thought Rand would almost choke Min to death, or any of the other dozen surprises in the books.

[Aleron688]

I dunno why I'm arguing for this since I don't believe it will happen lol, but I'm sure before TGS you never would have thought Rand would almost choke Min to death, or any of the other dozen surprises in the books.

 

i did. knew it since EotW. :D

[lordofsoup]

i had this terrible dream last night that rand gave into the seanchan in order to get a treaty no matter what, and the seanchan collared all the aes sedai in the world and invaded my town, and i spent the whole time running away, and i saw all my favorite characters getting killed.  i only bring this up bacause i think Rand should have made the seanchan obey him

[jemron]

i had this terrible dream last night that rand gave into the seanchan in order to get a treaty no matter what, and the seanchan collared all the aes sedai in the world and invaded my town, and i spent the whole time running away, and i saw all my favorite characters getting killed.  i only bring this up bacause i think Rand should have made the seanchan obey him

 

The Dreamer has spoken!

[Firebird]

i had this terrible dream last night that rand gave into the seanchan in order to get a treaty no matter what, and the seanchan collared all the aes sedai in the world and invaded my town, and i spent the whole time running away, and i saw all my favorite characters getting killed.  i only bring this up bacause i think Rand should have made the seanchan obey him

 

I actually laughed out loud at this. Cheers!

;D ;D

[a great fantasy fan]

i had this terrible dream last night that rand gave into the seanchan in order to get a treaty no matter what, and the seanchan collared all the aes sedai in the world and invaded my town, and i spent the whole time running away, and i saw all my favorite characters getting killed.  i only bring this up bacause i think Rand should have made the seanchan obey him

 

I believe he did. Remember? Darth Rand tried to use his pattern grip on Tuon, trying to make her see the greatness that a treaty could bring?

 

Man that was an awesome reveal. Rand, using his ta'vern-ness consiously? Awesome! I wonder if it was only Darth Rand though... hope not...

[analyticalkeys]

i had this terrible dream last night that rand gave into the seanchan in order to get a treaty no matter what, and the seanchan collared all the aes sedai in the world and invaded my town, and i spent the whole time running away, and i saw all my favorite characters getting killed.  i only bring this up bacause i think Rand should have made the seanchan obey him

 

I believe he did. Remember? Darth Rand tried to use his pattern grip on Tuon, trying to make her see the greatness that a treaty could bring?

 

Man that was an awesome reveal. Rand, using his ta'vern-ness consiously? Awesome! I wonder if it was only Darth Rand though... hope not...

 

That never happened. That could've just been his ta'veren pull.. it was in Tuon's PoV, so you can't know that he did it himself.

[lordofsoup]

i had this terrible dream last night that rand gave into the seanchan in order to get a treaty no matter what, and the seanchan collared all the aes sedai in the world and invaded my town, and i spent the whole time running away, and i saw all my favorite characters getting killed.  i only bring this up because i think Rand should have made the seanchan obey him

 

I believe he did. Remember? Darth Rand tried to use his pattern grip on Tuon, trying to make her see the greatness that a treaty could bring?

 

Man that was an awesome reveal. Rand, using his ta'vern-ness consiously? Awesome! I wonder if it was only Darth Rand though... hope not...

 

ya, but after/ currently.  now that he destroyed the CK, he has nothing to fight against the seanchan with that will make it an easy fight.  its gona have to be ashaman/ aes sedai vs damane, unless rand can get callandor or find some other sa'angreal.  im really disappointed that he dident teach the seanchan to respect him

[Declan]

They will learn to respect him once they find out their attack got owned by one person (egwene) and that he is no slouch himself with the One Power. Where did his Fat Man angreal go?

[Ged]

The Seanchan consider the raid on the WT a fair success - especially with them gaining Traveling from it (which I think was confirmed by Brandon). With Traveling, they could bring a whole army to the White Tower if they wanted to.. Not that that is likely to happen. People in WoT never use the tools available properly, to get what they want.

 

 

... This whole book, since Rand's encounter with Semirhage, it has seemed like Rand was using his ta'veren powers intentionally. He says stuff like 'do you think I could kill you just by wishing it'. If someone reported to him the variation in his ta'veren affects, that might have given him something to work with.

 

The whole thing with Tuon was interesting. On one side, it seemed like Rand's ta'veren powers were trying to and failing to make her bend. On the other hand, she did exactly what she was destined to do by the Pattern, leading to the attack on the White Tower that Egwene had dreamed of... seems like Rand's ta'veren powers came up against the will of the Pattern and flunked.

Brandon seems to have implied that it was indeed Rand's ta'veren powers that Tuon managed to resist with her will, for all that it sounded like compulsion, rather than luck and her choosing a low probability choice.

 

As for forcing Tuon and the Seanchan to bend... he had the Choedan Kal. It would've been pathetically easy. Like I've said before... make a giant fireball in the sky of Ebou Dar, and you've damn near proved that you could nuke them if you wanted to. What're they going to do? Choose oblivion?

 

Realistically, not having the CK doesn't change that much. With the tools available to him, he could still do things like that... using the Asha'man and AS available to him, and links among other things.

 

 

... You know, I'm surprised that the general impression is that Rand with the CK could only channel as much as 200x what he could channel before...

Even if it were just 1000x, that would mean that 200 Asha'man linked to Aes Sedai, (assuming one AM as half of Rand's strength) could have erased the taint in a month. A thousand, could have done it in a day as easily as Rand.... Lame.

 

The CK really should have been 100000X power (not that that would really still make it difficult for Asha'man to be used to remove or at least manage the taint, but still...)

 

-

 

Random thought: If I were Rand, I suspect I'd be going into the mirrors of the wheel to harvest copies of people I know to be useful. More people who can be trusted... more people who have talent like Flinn with his super healing.

Heck I'd have more of myself - but I'm not sure Rand could trust other versions of himself so much, not to mention it being inconvenient to have a bunch of clones of the main leader. Might still be worth it to have an Alt-Rand leading the Asha'man though.

 

-

 

And now to the reason I dropped by the board today :P

Was just reading TGS again, and saw the part where Rand has just erased Graendal, and then Nynaeve is half supporting Rand's choice, and Min like Cadsuane is going on about their usual 'Do we dare send him to the Last Battle like this? It won't be victory if he goes against the DO as he is' crap. Seriously, its like having a dog that can't think past its supper or its feelings for its master, thinking that it understands the needs of an entire world and should be making choices.

So far, apart from their feelings about what they want or how they feel things should be, none of them has presented one reason that suggests that there would be an advantage to Rand and the world if he goes against the DO changed.

 

Pre-TGS, I was rather hoping that Rand would walk up to the DO and find out that the DO is a female. That would've been just awesome :P

But seriously, if he was weak and cowardly, one could hardly expect that to help his chances of beating a force like the DO.

 

Of course, for all we know its going to end up something like that part in Highlander where Duncan beats Ahriman by cleansing his heart of evil, causing Ahriman's evil to be defeated without fighting. So far, we really don't have any indication of how the DO can be defeated.

[Harry998]

seems like Rand's ta'veren powers came up against the will of the Pattern and flunked.

It was more like the will of Tuon. Sandersson said that she thinks of her as the most important person in the world, great importance and all that come with it. Will of the pattern have very little to do with the outcome of this mind fight. She thinks of Rand as a lesser being compared to her, so I doubt she was ever going to bow before his will. Especially when she ain't getting anything out of it.

[Kelitor]

seems like Rand's ta'veren powers came up against the will of the Pattern and flunked.

It was more like the will of Tuon. Sandersson said that she thinks of her as the most important person in the world, great importance and all that come with it. Will of the pattern have very little to do with the outcome of this mind fight. She thinks of Rand as a lesser being compared to her, so I doubt she was ever going to bow before his will. Especially when she ain't getting anything out of it.

 

 

I agree. Its about time Rand was reminded that being a Ta'veren doesn't mean everyone is putty in your hands for your political games. It was about time that his ta'veren nature stopped being an "I Win" button every time he had to interact with other people.

[Ged]

Setting Tuon straight about her status or winning that encounter in general would've been pathetically easy without any need for ta'veren abilities.

 

And Tuon's supposed mental strength really doesn't mean anything since she did exactly what she was supposed to do. If she were violating the will of the Pattern, it would be different and actually interesting.

[b9anders]

It is my understanding that T'averen influence IS the will of the pattern. When Tuon found herself so strongly influenced, it is because the pattern wanted her to accede to his demands.

 

Her saying no might not be going directly against the pattern, but she certainly tweaked it a bit. The way I see the pattern working, it is not a case of 'things must happen this way'. But more the case that the pattern will create situations and possibilities for what is prophesied to come true and when those situations do occur, it will push hard for that outcome to come to pass.

 

It can happen in other ways though and that is what I think happened here. She rejected it and so the pattern is now working new threads and possibilities to make a new situation happen whereby there can be peace between them.