Rand's Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[fikkie77]

I, too, mean to think on this further, but an initial thought of mine is that they will all three TRULY become one.  Rand has accepted LTT as a part of him, not a separate entity - the joining with Moridin wouldn't necessarily have to be the same.  It's a part of the next book(s) that I really anticipate.

Maybe a long shot, but I was thinking of saidin, saidar and the True Power. Rand can channel that because of Moridin. Would he be capable of channeling both saidin and TP and the same time, linked to a woman channeling saidar?

 

A very long shot indeed...

[firstfishman]

Except that any two sex circle beyond a two person circle requires one more woman than there are men.  So, it can't be Rand, Narishma and Alivia.

 

Including a circle that contains someone drawing upon the TP? I believe that men and women are equal when wielding the TP... Therefore it is unknown what limitations, if any, would apply to said circle...

[Ged]

Even though Rand may have seen Moridin's face a bit when he channeled the TP (or maybe some former Dragon who fell to the Shadow, which would be cooler).. I don't think we can say with surety that Rand can channel the TP because of Moridin. It may be accessible to anyone who knows how to use it, unless that person is specifically blocked from using it.

 

DO isn't physical creature to be balefired. There's nothing to be target of balefire. Therefore no. That doesn't work

 

You know this how? It could just as well be a big ugly beastie. The thing is contained within a prison ain't it. Obviously its existence is at least limited. Its also unkillable if there is no target to attack.

[Rowan Sedai]

The DO could very well be a physical thing.  After all, the AS in AoL created a drill to bore through the DO's prison.  I seem to remember flaming pieces of said prison raining down in fiery death at the end of the AoL in Rand's vision of the past.  Just saying...

[Bob T Dwarf]

No.  What rained down was flaming pieces of the research installation called the Collan Dan.

[Rowan Sedai]

Serves me right, trying to site something I haven't read in a while. <sigh>

[Bob T Dwarf]

Serves me right, trying to site something I haven't read in a while. <sigh>

 

Serves me right for going from memory, too.  It really Collam Daan located in V'saine.

[sheikh chilli]

ged,

 

the true power is the dark one's special gift. no one can access it unless he wills it so. rand did it because of moridin. semi was torturing rand and causing pain to moridin as well. she also took her sweet time instead of bringing rand to shayol gul. result a pissed off dark one and moridin and bye bye semi.

 

 

by the way did'n i tell you guys that callandor was intentionally 'flawed'. it was meant to work in  circle from the beginning. it holds the key in sealing up the prison.

 

 

and lol at killing the dark one. this aint the stupid gods of dragonlance series where you can smash gods like chimps. this is shaitan we are talking about. if he breaks free game over

[Rowan Sedai]

Actually, I just went back and read it again.  What breaks apart isn't the university, but an orb floating a thousand feet -above- the university.  They call it the Sharom.  The ground ripples, and a small piece of the Sharom breaks off, shooting black fire from it.  The piece falls toward the ground, and then a thousand bits of the Sharom break off, black flame shooting in all directions.  It shatters, the sky goes black.

 

It takes about half a page to read it, but you can find it in TSR p.436 - 437.  With that description, it feels like the Sharom was a physical manifestation of the DO's prison.  Makes me think the DO may be more than just a dark spirit.

[Lambada]

I shall say it again.

Discussion of Balefiring the DO is pointless.

RJ himself stated that the amount of Balefire required to 'kill' the DO would destroy the pattern.

 

 

Oh and about the TP being the DO's own gift. The only source we have for this is the Forsaken - who got their information on it from the DO.The DO is the 'father of lies' therefore he may be lying about the properties of the TP.

[Rowan Sedai]

Not saying the DO should be balefired.  Just saying it's possible the DO has a physical form, possibly. :o

[Bob T Dwarf]

Actually, I just went back and read it again.  What breaks apart isn't the university, but an orb floating a thousand feet -above- the university.  They call it the Sharom.  The ground ripples, and a small piece of the Sharom breaks off, shooting black fire from it.  The piece falls toward the ground, and then a thousand bits of the Sharom break off, black flame shooting in all directions.  It shatters, the sky goes black.

 

It takes about half a page to read it, but you can find it in TSR p.436 - 437.  With that description, it feels like the Sharom was a physical manifestation of the DO's prison.  Makes me think the DO may be more than just a dark spirit.

 

The Sharom was the facility that was used to make the Bore.  The blackness is the teensy bit of the DO that was released by the drilling.  The release destroyed the Sharom.

[richnewton82]

.

[firstfishman]

Another though about "The Three Become One"..

 

Maybe that means Mashadar (the mindless evil of Aridhol), the Dark One's evil, and Machin Shin combine and struggle for control of all evil... Evil does not like to share, and I cant see them allowing each other to exist while they try to take control of the world. They are three seperate evils, and we know from DarkRand that darkness does not like any threat at their backs...

 

Just a thought

[tneva82]

Its also unkillable if there is no target to attack.

 

What says it IS killable in a first place?

 

Wheel of Time world keeps repeating itself. Same ages come and go. DO therefore always exists. Eventually the age describing these events(3rd age?) comes again and there will be DO there with seal that is breaking. Eventually there comes time where DO is in his prison with no aparant hole ready to be bored in age of legends.

 

Or the DO wins and everything dissapears and universum ceases to exists. Forever.

 

Albeit if DO gets reborn always there's way it could be killable but as it's outside pattern it doesn't look likely it can be reborn constantly. Rather like constant presence outside pattern.

[richnewton82]

.

[Ananda]

When I first read the section where LTT tells Rand that saidin was tainted because it touched the DO, using the TP to remake the prison was my first thought. We know that something has to touch the DO and that something can be tainted by the DO.

 

What about the Eye of the World? RJ did say that it wasn't used for its intended purpose. What if its purpose was to provide Rand with a pool of saidin, separate from the rest of saidin (much like drawer water from the ocean andusing it to create a lake), that could be used to remake the prison? Being separate from the rest of saidin (and we know it is because it wasn't tainted), the DO couldn't touch and taint the Power like he did last time.

Of course, it's gone now, so that could be a problem...

But if it was done once, it could be done again, right?

 

My other thought is that the Pattern IS the DO's prison, and that Rand, as the most powerful ta'veren ever, has the ability to "weave" the Pattern in the manner he needs (I think we saw that he's beginning to get this idea himself--his threat to Cadsuane where he asked if she was sure that he couldn't stop her heart if he really wanted to using his ta'verenness--I think this is foreshadowing). I think that the Last Battle is a contest of wills rather than a One Power showdown.

[Jaric Mar Tedronai]

Bob T Dwarf is wrong. Asmodean tells Rand in order to teach him better, he should ask Egwene or Moraine to link them.

 

2 men can link with one woman.

 

In addition to RJ's comment about balefiring the Dark One, I don;t understand how that would work. Balefire burns threads out of the pattern. The Dark One was imprisoned outside of the pattern, implying he is not a thread to be burned out of it.

[Ashaman Drasil]

my theory on the three become 1 is that there are 3 separate purposes to Calandor that is why it is mentioned in the prophecy because the purpose cant just be sa'agreal or the chodin kal would be the one mentioned as rand states   

[fader6818]

Maybe that means Mashadar (the mindless evil of Aridhol), the Dark One's evil, and Machin Shin combine and struggle for control of all evil... Evil does not like to share, and I cant see them allowing each other to exist while they try to take control of the world.

 

No.

 

Cadsuane is pretty sure that the "three" are indeed the two women and one man needed to safely use Callandor. This would be Rand and two other women. I'm further guessing that this will be key to beating the Dark One (and I even suspect the mechanics of how it will happen, but... meh) and that one of the two women will be Alivia.

 

The game will be changed.

 

RJ said the greatest gift to (real) human history was moving beyond the idea that time is cyclical. I don't hold the idea that the turning of "the Wheel" can only be broken by a Dark One victory..

[Lambada]

The more I think about my saidin, saidar, TP theory with regard to 3 becoming one, the more I think it makes sense.

 

Oh and Cadsuane could be wrong. She is after-all not omnipotent.

[lillcheese]

I was just reading the Min viewings thread over in structured.  It reminded me about her "firefly" viewings.  According to the fireflies, all three ta'veren have to be together at TG.  My earlier thought about them being the 3 seems slightly less kooky now.

 

Oh and Cadsuane could be wrong. She is after-all not omnipotent.

 

Yes, but Min came to that conclusion on her own.  I'd like her to be right about that.  That would show all those people thinking she's just a pretty.

[Lambada]

Yes, but Min came to that conclusion on her own.  I'd like her to be right about that.  That would show all those people thinking she's just a pretty.

Hmm, I had forgotten that Min also thought it had something to do with Callandor. Perhaps it might refer to several things - rather than just one particular three. Callandor seems possible, but I just don't see how two women and one man will become one whilst wielding Callandor - when it was wielded in the cleansing of Saidin there is no mention of Narishma becoming one with anyone else.

[kasper11]

I think the 3 become 1 prophecy refers to Rand/LTT/the Dragon, and I think it has already come to pass.

 

He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and the three shall be one

Page 742

 

Through his eyelids, he could sense the blazing light of the access key.  The power he held inside dwarfed that light.  He was the sun.  He was fire...

Rand raised his arms high, a conduit of power and energy

Page 759

 

Then, a bit later,

It all swept over him, lives lived, mistakes made, love changing everything.  He saw the entire wold in his mind's eye, lit by the glow of his hand.  He remembered lives, hundreds of them, thousands of them, stretching to infinity.  He remembered love, and peace, and joy, and hope

 

and finally...

And Rand opened his eyes for the first time in a very long while.  He knew -somehow- that he would never again hear Lews Therin's voice in his head.  For they were not two men

 

First, the imagery of him with the light of the power through him, with his hands together above his head to me is the blade of light.  Maybe not blade in a literal sense, but as far as an instrument of destruction.  Rand is holding this blade of light, when he and Lews Therin finally become one person.  This, to me, just fits perfectly.

 

I admitt the part about the third person is a little vague, but the quote about the thousands of lives makes me think that the Dragon was not Lews Therin, it was not Rand Al'Thor.  They were only a part of the Dragon.  The Dragon is the champion of light, and has been through hundreds of lives.  Now Rand realizes that.  Now he can truly be the champion that is needed.

[karehiro]

I really doubt the Dark One can be balefired out of existence considering that the Dark One isn't even of the Pattern (which is what balefire affects), and that there's already effective defenses created that can nullify balefire, including cuendillar and Callandor, and possibly the gholam.  If objects such as those are immune to balefire, I doubt the Dark One himself would be affected.  I have doubts it could even harm Shaidar Haran, considering he could remove the Power itself from channelers.

 

As for beating the Dark One, I'm thinking it may be similar to how Rand cleansed saidin or destroyed the Choedan Kal; that meaning he may use another evil (Fain) to act as a seal for the Dark One, or he'll direct the True Power against him, using Moridin as a psuedo-sa'angreal for that power.  Just a theory though.  Of course the seals will have to be broken before he does whatever he plans though.

 

Regardless, whatever Rand does, the only way for him to actually win will be due to Moiraine, and what she's destined to do.  Alivia merely is meant to "help" Rand die; Moiraine is actually needed to assure Rand's victory.  So I'm assuming that whatever way Rand plans on fighting the Dark One, Moiraine will be there by his side (and possibly Nynaeve and Alivia too).

 

I sincerely doubt Elayne or Aviendha will play any role in the final outcome.  They aren't really relevant to Rand's storyline besides that of romantic interests, and they haven't been foreshadowed to have any role in that area.