Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[Aleron688]

bah. nonsense.  Rand lives.  the way i see it there is a 50/50 change that he survives TG.

 

I'm betting he does. 

[Swigaro]

I couldn't agree more, I just don't think he is going to be any sort of a world leader post Tarmon Gaidon.

[peacefreak99]

Let me preface this by saying that I have only listened to the audio books and have no idea or inclination to find out how to spell any of the character names.

 

A few things we know that may come into play.

 

Someone will figure out a way to break a shield. There have been hints that it can be done even if there are many holding the shield.

 

One of the kins women knows how to craft a shield that bends and stretches. That needs to be learned by others.

 

ToG

Fire to blind = Striker sticks (they are not really fire, but they are)

Iron to bind = A dagger or weapon that was once iron but is now cuendillar (it isn't iron but it sort of is. also, the DO seals were made of cuendillar)

Music to dazzle= terangrial music box. (its not an instrument but it plays music.

 

Avi will identify a shit load of terangrial

 

Mistress anon was once AS who last studied terangrial, can her being burned out be healed like stilling? And will she help Avi identify some terangrial.

 

Rand has severed the thread to the dark one before with Asmodian, can he do that with anyone and is it like reversing a stilling? In which case, Nyneve and one of the Ashaman can learn it quick snap.

 

During tGS, when Rand is angry or has that black aura around him, food spoils. There are about 4 references to it throughout. Also, his tavern nature was only producing negative effects while ridding through town. None of the births and marriages and all of the deaths. I think this was linked to his negativity. Now that he is ghandi-rand, i think the world will start to right itself.

 

I see rand as the opposing force against the dark one. yin and yang. If the dark one spoils food then a Rand who truly represents the light will make food grow. or if not grow. At least it should balance things out. The clouds will clear and crops will grow.

 

how far back did ghrendals actions go once Rand used bailfire on her entire fortress. That was strong bailfire, i'm guessing that more than a few reversed compulsions happened. We may see first hand how bailfire can destroy the pattern.

 

He shall bind the 9 moons to him. Perhaps it is talking about Mat and not Rand. maybe that is how the prophecy was corrupted by Ishamael.

[Aleron688]

I couldn't agree more, I just don't think he is going to be any sort of a world leader post Tarmon Gaidon.

 

me either... but i think he will likely make sure a few things are straightened out before he gives up all his rights to rule... he WILL make sure that Elayne has the Sun Throne for one thing.

 

Also, he won't just go back to being a sheepherder... considering his children are in line for the Throne (Elyane's) and he still has Min and Avi... not to mention that he is still the most powerful man alive (at least in regards to saidin). So he will still have SOME authority and respect from other people.

[Shard]

Neither of them have a stronger claim to the throne since being male disqualifies them from the position.

 

what he said... but also what i said in the post above his :)

 

If Galadedrin has a claim to any throne, his strongest would be to the Sun Throne.

 

Depending on how Cairheinin paternity laws are written, Rand might legally be Galad's full brother.  Galad, being the elder, would be the legal inheritor of whatever his father was entitled to.  After the Aiel war, the AS apparently thought Moiraine had the strongest claim.  They pushed her very hard to take the Sun Throne.  That fact played a large part in her determination to get away from the Tower and not return, leading her to leap at the opportunity go go off an find the Dragon Reborn.

 

Since Andor is strictly a Matriarchy, unless laws got rewritten, Rand would never have any claim on the Lion Throne.  His female children, however, might have the strongest claim of any of their generation.

 

That didn't stop Rhavin.

 

what he said too lol

[stormcrow]

The DO says the Dragon is his eternal enemy, I wonder if this means the Dragon is somewhat equal to the DO in some regard. Knowing the mindset of the Shadow or any individual for that matter, they wouldn't consider someone who is vastly inferior to themselves as an equal.

 

Just wait.

 

Wait until Morgase, Gawyn, Elayne, and Gallad all learn that Rand is Tigraine's son.

 

THAT will be one heck of a moment.

 

And the Lord Captain Commander of the Children of the Light will be known as 'Brother of the Dragon.'

 

Anyone want to speculate on how Gallad will react?

I want this to happen in the very beginning of the next book. I've always been somewhat disappointed with how revelations/meetings are made within this series. The "epic first meeting between Logain and Rand?"... yeah, I think you catch my drift here. I hope for what you said too, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

Galad has enough honours (or will soon) to his name, he won't be defined by his relationship with Rand. But knowing that his brother is the Dragon Reborn should change the attitude the Children have towards channelers.

[randfandom]

Technically speaking: Galad and Rand are step-brothers to one another because they have different Fathers. So Elaynes stepbrother Galad, who is stepbrother to Rand has no connection for Elayne and Rand.... Just thought that this was kind of weird in a way if no one else thought the same.

 

To clarify:

 

Gawyn and Elaine are full siblings.

 

Galad has same father, but not same mother, as Gawyn and Elayne. He is their half brother (not step brother) on the father side.

 

Galad has the same mother, but not same father, as Rand. They are half brothers on the mother side.

 

There is no blood connection between Rand and Gawyn or Elayne.

 

I am not sure why Galad isn't head of House Mantear (I think that's Tigraine's House), since I imagine the former Daughter-Heir must have been the head of her House, and he is her oldest child.

 

Neither Rand, Gawyn nor Galad have any claim whatsoever to the Lion Throne - they are males. Andor has only queens.

 

I am not sure why Elayne's claim to the Sun Throne is considered greater than either Galad's (her older brother) or Caraline (current Head of House Damodred). Caraline gave up her claim, but I would think Galad is still the rightful Heir to the Cairhein throne, not Elayne.

 

One interesting twist on the Arthurian legend - it was Sir Galahad who found the Grail that healed the Fisher King. I wonder if his being the only known blood relative to Rand will play a role in Healing Rand's wound (blood donation perhaps?).

[stormcrow]

that would be funny considering Semirhage's long threat about blood transfusion.

[richnewton82]

.

[cowbell]

Some thoughts:

 

Gawyn

 

Does anyone else think that Gawyn's sudden prowess with the blade may be linked to him learning how to channel?  He may to be going to the void + 1 that Rand and Lanfear have mentioned.

 

Demandred

 

I think he was one of Masema's advisors.  Specifically, the hawk nosed one.  I think he was the one turning Masema mad and caused the prophet's army to spread chaos across the land.  The phophet's dragonsworn could be the army he was referring to.

 

Rand and the TP

 

Did it specifically say it was the True Power that is linked to the Dark One, or could it be a third power that is linked to the creator?  Why would the Dark One have his own special power and not the Creator.  My initial thought is that he tapped the opposing power of the TP.  The joining of the three could also be the DP, OP, and the creator power.

 

 

Rand's Sickness and the One Power

 

I think the sickness is caused by the re-integration issues and will be gone in the next book.  I think it had to do with both Rand and LTT reaching for the power at the same time.  Earlier in the books Rand said that LTT sometimes tried to reach for the power when he did and at the end LTT did it every time (if I remember correctly).  I am anxious to see if Rand now has all of LTT's memories or if he has the memories of all the rest of the dragons and is no longer Rand. He would be a merging of all the dragons.

 

 

---------------

 

Finally.... the I hope this is not true speculation .....

 

Since the Dark One has referred to Rand (the Dragon) as his eternal enemy, what if Rand's soul is really the creator where the creator does not know he is the creator.  Ie. the absentee landlord who comes in and cleans up the place every 3000 years. I sure hope that's not it.

 

[richnewton82]

.

[stormcrow]

the Creator spoke to Rand in Eye of the World at the Eye. At least someone who was speaking in all caps spoke to Rand and said he would have no part in the battle, that the Chosen One will do it.

 

Galad seems to be the one who can be said to develop to channel. His swordfight with Valda had some interesting wording similar to what Rand experienced in EotW.

[Diederichos]

Galad is supposed to be good, that's what he was built up to be. Gawyn, I don't know, there's something about him that just rubs me wrong. All of the noble characters(at least the protagonists) have a certain sense of entitlement, but that's balanced by humility and a very keen sense of responsibility. Gawyn seems to have the entitlement/natural arrogance without the positives to make up for it. Am I the only one to see it like this?

 

Then again, I'm horrendously biased since Galad is tied with Demandred for my second male favourite character after Mat.

[richnewton82]

.

[al Gan]

I know this is a shoot in the dark:

 

What if Olver is Moiraine?

 

Olver came in to wot almost raight after Moiraine and Lenfear whent true the dooeframe.

 

Lenfear get another body. Mayby Moiraine did as well. Mayby Olver was a dead boy, that Moiraines soul whas put in. "She" will not remember it before she is at the tower of Ghenjei, where she will get her memories from the "snakes and foxes"

 

[Diederichos]

I don't know, by being willing to ally with Aes Sedai and channelers, hasn't Galad moved to a point where he doesn't see things as 'black and white' and takes a more nuanced view of stuff?

[Rogue_Stone_Dog]

This is my 1st post. Here's my thoughts on ToM. If i step on anyone's toes or theories I truly meant no disrespect.

 

ToG will be early as so many stated for obvious reasons of reitroducing Moraine to a world in chaos & spirally further down into the abyss. My speculation focuses on Moraine. we know that Cyndane/Lanfear returned different in appearance and not as strong in the power. Appearance means little but power is another matter. The two prior male forsaken to be returned never quipped about their strength. They seemed to notice no difference. Graendal remarks even that Cyndane acts like Lanfear but is a lot weaker. Why?

 

I think she's weaker because the Aelfinn/Eelfinn did a little punishment to her and Moraine. When they went thru Moraine had seen the possible futures and knew how to interact with them for intruding, Lanfear did not. So in response to something Lanfear did they took her power level and swapped it with Moraine's. If they can sift memories and emotions I think they can manipulate peoples' skills as well. So Moraine comes back to Randland as one of the most powerful saidar wielders alive.

 

I think then that Rand, Moraine, and Alivia make up the 3 for the Callandor circle. Two of Min's viewings lead me to believe this. One being Rand needs Moraine to have a chance winning TG(not sure exact wording) & Alivia would help him die. If the 2 join with Rand to use Callandor to seal the DO prison then I think we'll see both viewings come to pass.

 

Nyneave weeping over someone? I saw somebody post this idea but would like to expand on it. I don't think it's Lan. I think it's Myrelle & I think it takes place at the BT battle. When Nyneave sees her she'll be overcome with grief knowing that Lan is in a death rage from the bond severing. She'll go find him and bond him to save him. I think it will play out that Myrelle is mortally wounded, Nyneave is too exhausted from the battle to heal her, Myrelle passes where Lan is, & Nyneave sets out after a rest.

 

One quest from the Nyneave viewing chapter. Min saw a black dagger over another AS head. What does it mean? Maybe she travels back to the tower and a Bloodknife gets her.

 

Peace out.

[RenaldFanwar]

I think a lot of people don't like Gawyne because he seems like a willing sucker and he killed characters that people were fond of. That is his struggle though. He has been taught since birth by his teachers and family that duty is life. He was sworn to protect his sister when he was super young. Can you blame him for thinking that during the tower coup, in while the Hall of the Tower brought down a reigning Amyrlian and there was pretty  much open rebellion, that he stood on the side of authority and law? He was trained to do that. Plus he didn't know any details that we know. He was serving the Black Ajah through his actions basically for the past 4 books.

 

I think that all the characters are written to illustrate certain things we must learn in life.

 

Rand and Egween share a similar strength vs hardness lesson.

Gawyne is obviously dealing with duty and loyalty.

Galad always does what is right and still hasn't learned his lesson about that yet but will at some point.

 

The thing with gawyn is that he is basicaly all thats left of the original "Whitieclock" philosophy in randland, blaming everything on Dragon Reborn even though he has no proof to believe so. Galad maybe their Captain Commander nw, but Gawyn represents their way of thinking more elaborately. Coming to a conclusion without knowing all facts, and then believing in it fanatically(remember hw he almost faught with Byrne over the Morgase issue?).

 

I know this is a shoot in the dark:

 

What if Olver is Moiraine?

 

Olver came in to wot almost raight after Moiraine and Lenfear whent true the dooeframe.

 

Lenfear get another body. Mayby Moiraine did as well. Mayby Olver was a dead boy, that Moiraines soul whas put in. "She" will not remember it before she is at the tower of Ghenjei, where she will get her memories from the "snakes and foxes"

 

lol, that IS one wacky theory!

[Dida]

Now that we know what was covered in TGS, what's left?

 

Valan Luca arriving in Caemlyn in time to join Mat, Thom in a quest to rescue Moiraine from the Tower of Ghenjei. That surprise, Luca not Noal being the 3rd man referred to by Moiraine's Letter to Thom shown to Mat, is what I am looking forward too.  

 

Learning about what is happening in Lugard and Murandy now, from Luca's pov: Is the King, Demandred? Is Padan Fain advising the King of Murandy? Or did the Seanchan Empire reach a secret treaty with the King of Murandy?

 

Luca's an intelligent people, and he's looking to preform for the King of Murandy...and move as fast as possible to Caemlyn (KoD).

 

Luca is one of the few to have claimed to of visited Shara, and to of seen "birds large enough to carry off bulls" which sound like the Seanchan's to'raken. Elayne didn't have time to listen to Luca the first time they met, and mentioned hearing his stories at a later time.  Wouldn't ToM book be a very good place to hear those stories about Shara too?

 

Luca of Rand's Da'shain Aiel history lessons (tSR book) was reborn in this current Age as Valan Luca. So I do wonder about how the current Luca --Valan Luca-- become cast out again?

 

I personally want to see Avi go through the glass columns.

 

That should be a great scene, agree, hope to see it as well.  Wonder if the candidate to be the next Shiado Aiel Clan Chief will be in Rhuidean and that test at the very same time as Aviendha will too?

 

 

[karehiro]

It's funny how -at least for me- Gawyn and Elayne were very much genuinely likeable and great characters in the beginning, while I absolutely despised Galad.

 

Now there's a 180 reversal on all three and Galad's the only one I can stand out of that whole family (Morgase included).  Interesting how character development goes :)

[saidarisnowtainted]

one thing i found interesting in TGS was Fortuana's POV where she thinks about the timing of the Return to Randland.  As i recall, prophecy was being fulfilled over in her 'hood and they Returned so that the Dragon could kneel before the Crystal Throne before TG.

 

If this was twisted by Ishy, it certainly caused lots of chaos leading up to TG.

 

If it is good prophecy, Rand should hear about it b/c i'm sure he would want to fulfill it to defeat the DO--he would kneel if prophecy required it.

 

Thoughts?

[Bob T Dwarf]

I think what "Veins of Gold" was supposed to show us is that Rand now has a set of reasons to accept his role as the Dragon Reborn, and dedicate himself to winning TG.  In line with that, I expect him to do whatever he feels is necessary to get the cooperation he needs.

 

That may involve a number of things he wouldn't have considered before.

[smileyman]

I think what "Veins of Gold" was supposed to show us is that Rand now has a set of reasons to accept his role as the Dragon Reborn, and dedicate himself to winning TG.  In line with that, I expect him to do whatever he feels is necessary to get the cooperation he needs.

 

That may involve a number of things he wouldn't have considered before.

 

Egwene's a good example of that. She was willing to submit to Elaida for the good of the whole White Tower. The old Rand would never bow down to anyone else--he's the Dragon Reborn and nations must bow down to him. The new Rand might just bow down to the Seanchan if it means securing their aid for the Last Battle.

 

Of course this is assuming that this prophecy is accurate and means what we think it means. The Seanchan assume that kneel=serve which is not the case at all. I'd love for Rand to be approaching the Crystal Throne, trip and go down to one knee to keep from falling and thus fufill the Seanchan prophecy (assuming that it's an accurate prophecy).

[Mr Ares]

Technically speaking: Galad and Rand are step-brothers to one another because they have different Fathers. So Elaynes stepbrother Galad, who is stepbrother to Rand has no connection for Elayne and Rand.... Just thought that this was kind of weird in a way if no one else thought the same.

If you want to be technical, the correct term is half-brother.

 

I am not sure why Galad isn't head of House Mantear (I think that's Tigraine's House), since I imagine the former Daughter-Heir must have been the head of her House, and he is her oldest child.

Because he's a Damodred, not a Mantear.

 

Galad seems to be the one who can be said to develop to channel. His swordfight with Valda had some interesting wording similar to what Rand experienced in EotW.

Galad, like any man, is capable of making use of the Void/oneness. That is not the same as being able to Channel. His description do not match with Channeling - saidin is quite noticeable, and is conspicuous by its absence. This applies to Gawyn as well, and any other man. We see Lan use it, and Rand learnt it from Tam. Neither can Channel. If they are learners, then unless and until they learn they are no different to non-Channelers. Galad, or Gawyn, or anyone, might be using the Void, but that can be done without the Power. Of course, maybe Galad or Gawyn can learn, might even be able to spark, if they're not too old, but they haven't done so yet.

[Aleron688]

It would be cool if Galad could learn to channel.  It would certainly mess up the whole Whitecloaks' system.  Except that I suppose they would just remove him as leader and have someone else take over. 

 

That being said, I don't see Galad being able to learn, same with Perrin, or Gawyn.  It just doesn't seem like the time to introduce that.  By the time of the LB, they still won't know much in the way of how to use their abilities (althought I suppose it could mean something for AFTER the LB)

 

What I see happening to these people is as follows:

 

Galad makes alliance with Perrin after he finds his mother.  He then pledges his armies to fight at the LB, with Rand, regardless that he can channel.

 

Gawyn will have to Travel back to Elayne to take up his rightful duties there, and will FINALLY learn that rand is not the bad guy.  (and he'll see that Elayne is preggers with his chillins)

 

Morgase will reveal herself to Galad, and together (with Perrin's retinue) will travel to Caemlyn