Question about Cuendillar and the power (gateways)

[IsThisNameTakenAlready]

While the whole issue of the permanence of Cuendillar has not been answered to the best of my knowledge, some interesting concepts came up as I reread the books a few months ago.  When ........ talks to the Seafolk on their ship one of the windfinders notes how impractical gateways are since there is no good way to use them to load/unload a ship. (Yeah, I have no idea which book)  This lead me to wonder if there was a good way to keep a gateway open forever and thus have direct trade routs between larger cities.

 

Consider the following object: a hollow tube of Cuendillar with a diameter of about 10 meters with each end having a cap plane like a spool of thread.

 

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open space     (Hope this looks right its hard to judge the font)

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If a gateway is made big enough to get the tube halfway though the gateway and then reduced in size to prevent the tube from being removed it should be trapped.  Now, if the gateway weave is ended what happens?  Cuendillar is indestructible so the tube can't be cut in half and from what I understand a dissipated weave should shrink rather than grow so the tube cannot fall out either.  This seems to leave the gateway staying open indefinitely, without the direct need of a channeler or tied off weave.

 

Is there any problems with my logic or conclusion, or if the above is attempted will Bela come and stop me?  I'm fairly sure this is analogous to the LHC making black holes but hey if you are going to take the whole planet down you may as well do it with S-T-Y-L-E.

[mb]

I am not sure if cuendillar can be suspended inside a Gateway.  And the cuendillar might be moved if it could be.

A transporting terangreal (if there is one or if one can be made) might be more effective than a gateway.

 

There are dangers in keeping a gateway open forever.  Enemies could easily follow in chasing scenarios.

 

I think only linking could produce a gateway big enough for a boat to go through.

 

[Phariah]

well if the weave closes and the cuendillar is still inside, i would  have to guess it would possible unravel. since the threads would want to dissipate they might just pull apart.

 

but as some angreal and ter'angreal are made of cuendillar maybe a gateway weave could be set into the ring. possibly similar to the Doorways to finn land. and they were of rectangle shape, as is the shape of gateways.

[Mr Ares]

Gateways displace. It could just move until free to collapse. That's if the cuendillar didn't just absord the weave. And why not just tie it off? And drop the horse jokes, they're not funny.

[Ashaman Kovan]

And drop the horse jokes, they're not funny.

 

You know what kind of is though? How annoyed you get by them.  ;D

In fact, why didn't you knee cap that guy? Lol.

[Mr Ares]

And drop the horse jokes, they're not funny.

You know what kind of is though? How annoyed you get by them.  ;D

In fact, why didn't you knee cap that guy? Lol.

*Kneecpas Asha'man Kovan*

[Demon_AS]

The OP's theory is based on the assumption that the gateway wouldn't slice the cuendillar. I reckon that it probably would, precisely because the books haven't shed much light on how powerful that stuff really is.

 

The DO's approach to Ta'armon Gaidon has weakened the cuendillar seals that bound him sufficiently enough that they would shatter if they were thrown down. How is this possible, given what we know of cuendillar? If that is possible - and it is - then there must be other caveats which allow for the same... and why not gateways? They are essentially holes in reality, the edges of which will slice through anything.

 

Besides, if you wanted a gateway to remain open, there probably is a way of tying off a weave that won't dissipate. Could be one more of these lost Talents ;).

[Ashaman Kovan]

And drop the horse jokes, they're not funny.

You know what kind of is though? How annoyed you get by them.  ;D

In fact, why didn't you knee cap that guy? Lol.

*Kneecpas Asha'man Kovan*

 

And to think...I didn't even bring up Bela... :'(

[mb]

and they were of rectangle shape, as is the shape of gateways.

I do not recall the books telling the shape of gateways.

 

And drop the horse jokes, they're not funny.

You know what kind of is though? How annoyed you get by them.  ;D

He is not alone in getting annoyed by them.

 

[pxnsolid]

and they were of rectangle shape, as is the shape of gateways.

I do not recall the books telling the shape of gateways.

 

And drop the horse jokes, they're not funny.

You know what kind of is though? How annoyed you get by them.  ;D

He is not alone in getting annoyed by them.

 

 

far from alone

[Vhar Khoebhan Xudan]

The OP's theory is based on the assumption that the gateway wouldn't slice the cuendillar. I reckon that it probably would, precisely because the books haven't shed much light on how powerful that stuff really is.

 

The DO's approach to Ta'armon Gaidon has weakened the cuendillar seals that bound him sufficiently enough that they would shatter if they were thrown down. How is this possible, given what we know of cuendillar? If that is possible - and it is - then there must be other caveats which allow for the same... and why not gateways? They are essentially holes in reality, the edges of which will slice through anything.

 

Besides, if you wanted a gateway to remain open, there probably is a way of tying off a weave that won't dissipate. Could be one more of these lost Talents ;).

 

 

 

Simple. Saidin was tainted even as the seven cuendillar seals were placed to patch up the Bore but Lews Therin and his surviving 60-odd Companions (assuming by now all of the warmen have died, more than likely..). Thus those cuendillar pieces were degrading slowly, just as, depending on length of use in some cases, (before it was cleansed in WH) that the male half of the One Power slowly rotted away men's bodies, as well as their minds, turning them to madness.

 

And on the subject of Gateways- Yes, they can be tied off, but still not sure on that, since I don't recall reading of any who could open a Gateway tying off the weave and leaving it open.

 

Also take  into the fact Gateways are essentially, holes in reality (credits to Demon_AS) , either going through/beyond the Pattern to reach one's destination(saidin), or via an image of it(saidar).

 

If this topic's idea was suggested, more than likely I think the Gateway weave would NOT hold. The cuendillar tunnel/archway would simple absorb it, and become immune to it..

 

..Why doesn't anyone just make Cuendillar Golems..

[Ashaman DeRouge]

Hi All - Month long Lurker, first time poster.

 

Cuendillar Golem's...

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, or this has been posted before, but the above line got me thinking. Is Mat's favourite Shadowspawn a twisted version of a Cuendillar weave applied to a person? Thinking about it, Cuendillar and the gholam share similar properties, they both are immune to weaves of the power, indestructible by common force...annnnnd the thing that really got my noodle going was Mat's foxhead ter'angreal....it burnt the gholam, perhaps as if it where 'sucking' the 'absorbed' weaves out of it, as it dissipated the weaves held therein.

 

I'm probably missing something very obvious here, but I'd never thought about Cuendillar and the Gholam in the same frame of mind. Perhaps a cuendillar shortsword might do some damage, would give credence to the whole circular time thing, it would be the start of the Silver vs Werewolves type legends...

 

And I'd also like to claim the reward for the most incoherent first post ever!

[Phariah]

ya MB i don't have direct quote atm i'll look later. off the top of my head they have been described as a vertical line that expands / rotates outward to form a doorway. seems kinda obvious square, rectangular shape.

 

Vhar.. Sammy used loosely tied gateway weaves to send the Shaido all over the westlands.

 

as to the making of permanent gateways i'm sure that it would be possible, but the danger could be great. as women bend the pattern to match places to form one and men bore holes through the pattern to make theirs. it could be possible that it might damage the pattern itself. just speculation.

[Demon_AS]

The OP's theory is based on the assumption that the gateway wouldn't slice the cuendillar. I reckon that it probably would, precisely because the books haven't shed much light on how powerful that stuff really is.

 

The DO's approach to Ta'armon Gaidon has weakened the cuendillar seals that bound him sufficiently enough that they would shatter if they were thrown down. How is this possible, given what we know of cuendillar? If that is possible - and it is - then there must be other caveats which allow for the same... and why not gateways? They are essentially holes in reality, the edges of which will slice through anything.

 

Besides, if you wanted a gateway to remain open, there probably is a way of tying off a weave that won't dissipate. Could be one more of these lost Talents ;).

 

 

 

Simple. Saidin was tainted even as the seven cuendillar seals were placed to patch up the Bore but Lews Therin and his surviving 60-odd Companions (assuming by now all of the warmen have died, more than likely..). Thus those cuendillar pieces were degrading slowly, just as, depending on length of use in some cases, (before it was cleansed in WH) that the male half of the One Power slowly rotted away men's bodies, as well as their minds, turning them to madness.

 

And on the subject of Gateways- Yes, they can be tied off, but still not sure on that, since I don't recall reading of any who could open a Gateway tying off the weave and leaving it open.

 

Also take  into the fact Gateways are essentially, holes in reality (credits to Demon_AS) , either going through/beyond the Pattern to reach one's destination(saidin), or via an image of it(saidar).

 

If this topic's idea was suggested, more than likely I think the Gateway weave would NOT hold. The cuendillar tunnel/archway would simple absorb it, and become immune to it..

 

..Why doesn't anyone just make Cuendillar Golems..

Indeed - I agree with what you said about the taint. What I'm getting at is that if the taint is one way to destroy cuendillar, then there may be others :).

 

With regards to weaves that hold a long time - don't forget that when Aviendha made a run for it in TFoH and made the first gateway into Seanchan lands, Rand used his Lews Therin-instinct to create a block that held the weave open. Given that, despite the primitive nature of the current Randlanders to the AoL folk, they still managed to do things (like healing the severing from the OP) that the AoL folk couldn't, I would say there's probably a way to hold open a gateway indefinitely. It just has to be discovered ;).

[Thor]

i think it's already hard enough to make even mud golems, let alone iron or cuendillar golems.

 

secondly i think it is very possible to have permanent gateways, although to maintain the gateway would require quite a lot of energy, it would have to be a seriously popular or important/symbolic transport route to warrant that.

[Ashaman Kovan]

i think it's already hard enough to make even mud golems, let alone iron or cuendillar golems.

 

Is there a quote somewhere you can provide that says Gholams are made out of mud? Or a quote that says what they're made out of at all? I always assumed they started out as humans.

[mb]

ya MB i don't have direct quote atm i'll look later. off the top of my head they have been described as a vertical line that expands / rotates outward to form a doorway. seems kinda obvious square, rectangular shape.

From re-reading various passages, they describe gateways door-like.  Yet doorways could be almost any shape; rectangle, parallelogram, oval, etc.

(passage where Beonin teaches Elaida Traveling/Skimming, passage where Egwene shows a gateway to Moghedien, passage where Rand teaches Taim the weave)

 

[Arath Faringal]

i think it's already hard enough to make even mud golems, let alone iron or cuendillar golems.

 

Is there a quote somewhere you can provide that says Gholams are made out of mud? Or a quote that says what they're made out of at all? I always assumed they started out as humans.

 

I believe he's refering to the smith golems at Shayol Ghul.  The ones that make the Myrdraal blades.

[Ashaman Kovan]

i think it's already hard enough to make even mud golems, let alone iron or cuendillar golems.

 

Is there a quote somewhere you can provide that says Gholams are made out of mud? Or a quote that says what they're made out of at all? I always assumed they started out as humans.

 

I believe he's refering to the smith golems at Shayol Ghul.  The ones that make the Myrdraal blades.

 

Ahhh. I thought they were called something else. Thakan'Dar Forgers or something like that.

[Vhar Khoebhan Xudan]

 

 

Sorry about the Golem confusion. I was referring to Golems, as in Dungeons and Dragons.

 

D&D Cuendillar Golems would be pretty much invincible..

 

Unless you had enough time to remove the heartstone from it limb by limb..

 

Please excuse the inconvenience and assumption I made.  :-\