Strength of The Dark One and how to weaken "Him"

[Padraic_Seebrr]

In The EotW it's fairly certain that the Creator speaks to Rand saying: 'I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL'

Have we ever had confirmation on this? Don't have an EotW to check for description of the voice or if chosen is used in reference to the forsaken yet.

 

I don't think its been confirmed, but who else could it be? It was not Lews Therin, he doesnt speak in caps and he clearly takes part later on, plus he's not even in Rand's head yet. Theres noone else in Rand's head even now, so we go to the one thing we've ever seen talk in people's heads in caps lock. A god. Note that the Dark One speaks in all caps when hes talking to Demandred, and this entity that talks to Rand speaks in all caps as well. Coincidence? Plus it goes along with the Creator not helping ever, and using his champion instead. Also it says the Chosen One, not the Chosen. And why would it say the Chosen anyway?

[Mr Ares]

There is no evidence from the creator himself that he doesn't care.

None that he does, either. The best we have is him having a knowledge of what is going on, but an unwillingness or inability to help. And it was Rand, not Lews Therin, who thought about the Creator as a gardener.

 

The Dark Power is a total control freak

RJ did say as much.

 

The Power of Light always have more people working together and He shares His power with the people He employs.

But he doesn't. The Wheel gives out powers, like wolfbrothers, channelers, various Talents with the Power, Dreamwalkers, etc., and they crop up in bad guys as well. They can be used by either side (note that Semi is a great Healer, Lanfear and Moghedien both have skill in the Dreamworld, etc.).

[magnutz]

True that the Wheel spins out things but I would like to think The Creator increases the chances where His people are concerned. He does not take part actively like we see the Dark One does. I don't think any of the two does more than the other but clearly The Dark One tries to shift the weight so that Dark overcomes Light. The balance is a bit wobbly in the story as the Dark One is getting close to escaping His prison...

 

Come to think of it.. The Creator strives for Balance between all things, even Light and Dark while The Dark One wants to opposite (again). If the Wheel is unbalanced that = bad times. When I think about it in this light I see that many things in Randland are unbalanced already. The Aes Sedai are supposed to be both male and female but now only the female Sedai are "allowed" to exist. Chaos is evil. And chaos is a foundation in the Dark One's camp.

 

 

 

 

[Mr Ares]

True that the Wheel spins out things but I would like to think The Creator increases the chances where His people are concerned. He does not take part actively like we see the Dark One does.

Exactly. He does not take part. Yet if he was giving powers to his followers, specifically, he would be. As it is, he doesn't, he gives powers out regardless, and people can do with them as they will.

 

The Creator strives for Balance between all things

Not really. He created, then he buggered off. The Wheel attempts to maintain balance, but that is not the same as the Creator striving for it.

[Hybrid]

There is no evidence from the creator himself that he doesn't care.

None that he does, either. The best we have is him having a knowledge of what is going on, but an unwillingness or inability to help. And it was Rand, not Lews Therin, who thought about the Creator as a gardener.

I'm of the opinion it was Moridin due to the increasing link between him and Rand.  It was definitely not Lews Therin, but the passage is slightly ambiguous regarding Rand.  I don't believe it fits Rand's personality for him to wax philosophical like this. 

 

[COT: 24, A Strengthening Storm, 558]:

 

The Creator had made the world and then left humankind to make of it what they would, a heaven or the Pit of Doom by their choosing. The Creator had made many worlds, watched each flower and die, and gone on to make endless worlds beyond. A gardener did not weep for each blossom that fell.

For an instant, he thought those must have been Lews Therin's reflections. He had never gone on that way about the Creator or anything else that he recalled. But he could feel Lews Therin nodding in approval, a man listening to someone else. Still, it was not the kind of thing he would have considered before Lews Therin. How much space remained between them?

[Mr Ares]

I'm of the opinion it was Moridin due to the increasing link between him and Rand. It was definitely not Lews Therin, but the passage is slightly ambiguous regarding Rand. I don't believe it fits Rand's personality for him to wax philosophical like this. 

 

[COT: 24, A Strengthening Storm, 558]: Still, it was not the kind of thing he would have considered before Lews Therin. How much space remained between them?

I'd say that's a fair indicator of it coming from Rand. Still, Moridin is a possibility.

[Millon]

if the dark one is the opposite to the creator then why doesnt the creator help the 'good guys'? in fact he never does anything      what the hell?

 

In the EotW, I always thought it was the creator who spoke to Rand in the pass and said "THIS IS NOT THE PLACE" Was that the DO telling him where to go ora 'divine hand'? ???

[Mr Ares]

if the dark one is the opposite to the creator then why doesnt the creator help the 'good guys'?

Either he can't, or he just doesn't want to. Why should he? "The Creator had made the world and then left humankind to make of it what they would, a heaven or the Pit of Doom by their choosing. The Creator had made many worlds, watched each flower and die, and gone on to make endless worlds beyond. A gardener did not weep for each blossom that fell."

[sheikh chilli]

does anyone knows what will happens if the dark ones prison is completely broken and destroyed? what happens to the world if he is free?

[magnutz]

does anyone knows what will happens if the dark ones prison is completely broken and destroyed? what happens to the world if he is free?

 

If The Dark One really breaks 100% free I guess that's it, really. The battle, iirc, is between the armies of Light and Keeping the Dark One locked up. ;)

 

Anyway, I think the key to defeat the Dark One is to off all of His helpers. And of course see to it that He stays locked up. With no one around to hit the Good guys - deadifying them - all efforts go to strengthening the prison cell in which The Dark One is held. ;)

[Taeadra]

The Creator doesn't step in because he doesn't have to...

 

...give the bad guys/gals enough rope and they will hang themselves  ;)

 

JMHO

[Ashaman Kovan]

does anyone knows what will happens if the dark ones prison is completely broken and destroyed? what happens to the world if he is free?

 

He breaks the Wheel and reshapes the Pattern in His image.

[Durinax]

but is his prison actually bored all the way through? if it was He would have already won and changed the world in the AoL

[Thor]

the part about creator being a gardener is definitely from moridin.  LTT was even listening to it.

[Majsju]

I'm of the opinion it was Moridin due to the increasing link between him and Rand. It was definitely not Lews Therin, but the passage is slightly ambiguous regarding Rand. I don't believe it fits Rand's personality for him to wax philosophical like this. 

 

[COT: 24, A Strengthening Storm, 558]: Still, it was not the kind of thing he would have considered before Lews Therin. How much space remained between them?

I'd say that's a fair indicator of it coming from Rand. Still, Moridin is a possibility.

 

It is quite clear that it is Moridin, both Rand and LTT are passive listeners. Also, the content of the reasoning fits perfectly with Ishys philosophy.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

The question isnt if it was Moridin, but if Moridin is hearing LTT and Rand's thoughts O.o.

[Mr Ares]

the part about creator being a gardener is definitely from moridin. LTT was even listening to it.

What a convincing case.

 

The question isnt if it was Moridin

Because we all know it wasn't.

but if Moridin is hearing LTT and Rand's thoughts O.o.

He isn't.

 

It is quite clear that it is Moridin, both Rand and LTT are passive listeners. Also, the content of the reasoning fits perfectly with Ishys philosophy.

No. It is not Moridin, there is no indication at all that it is Moridin, nor is there any that Rand is just a passive listener. He initially thinks it is LTT, but then realises that it wasn't, that it was himself, because these thoughts are something he thinks more likely to come from LTT. He's just changing as a person. And both Rand and LTT agreed with the thought of "Moridin's". So it also fits with LTT's philosophy.

[Hybrid]

The one thing that sways me towards the philosophy being Moridin's is the belief that the Creator doesn't really care about what happens in any one world.  I feel that it fits in more with Ishamael's philosophy about existence not serving any real higher purpose and such.  I could be mistaken, of course; I'm not a philopher or even a student of philosophy.  And LTT's agreement of the thought does put a bit of a kink in it.  Still, like I said, it doesn't seem to be in Rand's nature to wax philosophical.  He consulted Herid Fel, but evidence indicates it was more a matter of seeking an opinion on a particular event (such as cleansing the Taint or resealing the Bore) rather than an interest in general philosophy.  In addition, the fact that he is not certain that the thought is his own, that he considers LTT first, lends weight to it being Moridin's thoughts, IMO.  He is able to differentiate between LTT and himself for the most part  Not nearly airtight, but it's my opinion.

[Mr Ares]

Still, like I said, it doesn't seem to be in Rand's nature to wax philosophical.

Rand himself notes that it's not a thought he would have considered before LTT. So, yes, it is atypical of him, but that could just as easily be taken as character development as something sinister involving Moridin.