Faile: A Couple Thoughts

[Samuel Aybara]

(Modified Version)

 

Hey everyone,

 

I have noticed a lot of Faile-bashing over the years from many sources. As she has progressed to be probably my favorite female main, I wanted to put a couple of things out there that represent my position and hopefully give Faile a chance.

 

1: Faile, however controlling she may be, is only doing this for Perrin's sake. She could care less if she is viewed as important in the Two Rivers as she stands to (potentially as I can see both her parents and Queen Tenobia kicking the bucket in the final three books at least as a plot device to install Perrin on the throne) inherit the Saldaean throne. Nevertheless, she still already is a powerful person. She knows that Perrin, like the other two, is special and can have an important role in the "world." She just expresses this more forcibly because it is Saldaean nature and because she realizes that, unlike Rand and Mat, Perrin is the least accpeting of his incredibly powerful position.

 

2: I personally believe that RJ may have gotten some slight inspiration for her from The Fountainhead. Yes, it's strange to consider it but in that book, Dominique Francon, seems to have the same fiercely independent nature as Faile.

 

3. She has the deepest caring for her husband compared to the others. Unlike them, she sees him as a person and not so much one of the ta'veren. Although she is originally drawn to him by that whirlpool, she seems as if she loses that obsession pretty early (read: as soon as she gets on the boat out of whatsthetowncalledwheretheyfirstmet.) In contrast, all of Rand's wives and Tuon are more drawn to the persona rather than the person. We can see this because Perrin and Faile are the first and best marriage of all three. Rand and Mat seems to not really... care some of the time.

 

4. She's Saldaean. 'Nuff said.

 

5. She thinks for herself and views Perrin as not only a husband in legal terms but in terms of how they seem to almost... just almost.. be Platonic ideals for each other as compared to Mat ("Wha..what happened? I'm married?) and Rand ("It's so hard to pick... ah, well no one said I have to chose.)

 

6: Don't hate her for the chase scene. It was RJ's pen and not her character who decided to get caught up in it.

 

Although, if she turns out to be evil, well... that would be pretty much unthinkable. I can see one of Rand's wives going over to the dark side but Faile would only be able to do so through a cloud of flying pigs.

 

Just consider this before you all judge her down as a horrible character.

 

EDIT:

 

Everyone knows that Perrin is obsessed with Faile (The world can burn if it keeps her safe). Some people dislike her just for that.

 

Here's my take on it on his obsession:

 

1.Perrin is a wolfbrother and therefore is slowly degrading and changing into a wolf in his spirit. Faile is the ONLY thing that keeps him from going completely AWOL and becoming a wolf permanently. He realizes this and therefore he latches into this connection. She is the one thing that is holding him up from this alternate version of himself. Without her, he would be lost to the wolves' world and would never be able to help Rand in the last battle. He fully realizes this and therefore he knew that he had to become extremely attached to something in order to prevent this change.

 

1. Perrin enters this stage in "The Shadow Rising." The reason he is obsessed with her is that is was the only reason for him to stay alive in the books. He was willing to go have himself hanged in the Two Rivers by the Whitecloaks in order to protect his family and his people. However, when he got there, he discovered that they were already dead. At that point he was extremely emotionally unstable, perhaps even suicidal. However, Faile was there and she kept him from self-destructing. Perrin, at this point in the book, has nobody except her: His entire family is dead, his friends have grown away from him, and his is stuck in a position he doesn't want to be as Lord of Two Rivers. Faile is his "rock" (to quote Obama) and she's the only connection that he has to society.

 

Rand and Mat both have the same family with which they began the series. Perrin lost EVERYONE. Faile just fills that void. You have to realize that Perrin is a character of the people so they mean a HUGE amount to him, especially his family (Perun is the Slavic god of the common man). So the lost of all these people close to him is enough to push him over the edge. That would have happened if Faile wasn't there; she's all he has now. Remeber he was willing have himself hanged to just PROTECT his family. Imagine the damage that losing them all had.

[Dunedain Fal]

I like Faile but I didn't like Faile at the time when she tried to manipulate events regarding Rand for Perrin's benefit without realizing the cost to Rand.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

When has Rand or Mat ever had a moment of not caring if his wife or girlfriend was injured? As soon as Mat learns who Tuon is and knows he is gonna marry her he starts worrying about her safety, and thats all Rand does I mean he is constantly thinking about how to keep them safe without thinking of how it hurts him. As for the girlfriends not seeing Rand as a person, they all hate that he has to be the Dragon Reborn because its going to kill him. With Tuon...yeah I can see that hehe. And I know it wasn't her fault but her capture was just..ugh...

[Mr Ares]

She could care less if she is viewed as important in the Two Rivers as she stands to inherit the Saldaean throne.

Why do people so often say "could care less" when they really mean "couldn't care less"? In this instance, how much less could she care?

[csarmi]

I like Faile but I didn't like Faile at the time when she tried to manipulate events regarding Rand for Perrin's benefit without realizing the cost to Rand.

 

Ehm, and why exactly should she care for the cost to Rand? He is not his husband, a big boy besides, should care for himself. If not, that's his problem. As for caring about the position of the Dragon and other BS like that... Come on, you are supposed to lead your life and then of course care for the world too. What I mean is you are supposed to solve your problems, not others'. She seems to know that. So does Perrin, btw.

[Mandragoran]

I like Faile but I didn't like Faile at the time when she tried to manipulate events regarding Rand for Perrin's benefit without realizing the cost to Rand.

Rand uses Perrin for his own ends so I think it balances out.

 

 

[The Doctor]

Faile reminds me of my wife.  It's too bad my wife doesn't stand to grab the same kind of inheritance.

[Ahaz Flagg]

You have failed very badly to Put Faile in a good light, she still deserves to die horribly, I truly hope she ends up in a Trolloc cook pot, and Perrin can be their desert.  Faile is a worthless human being as portrayed in the books.  She deserves any bashing she gets, and than double it, and it still will not be enough.

[Barmacral]

You have failed very badly to Put Faile in a good light

 

I thought he did a good job of it actually, of course, I rather like Faile myself. Don't insult him because you disagree with him.

[The Doctor]

Some men just feel threatened by women who are domineering.

[OptimusPrime]

Some men just feel threatened when they open a thread sticking up for a character and someone else posts in it voicing an opposite opinion.

[The Doctor]

Or they feel slightly annoyed that the next post after saying the character is similar to one's spouse, espouses the supposedly well deserved beating of that character.

[dholm]

She could care less if she is viewed as important in the Two Rivers as she stands to inherit the Saldaean throne.

Why do people so often say "could care less" when they really mean "couldn't care less"? In this instance, how much less could she care?

It's a solecism.

 

As for the topic, Faile is a fine character; I like her. But then, I like most of the good guys.

[Ahaz Flagg]

You have failed very badly to Put Faile in a good light

 

I thought he did a good job of it actually, of course, I rather like Faile myself. Don't insult him because you disagree with him.

 

Could you point out where i was insulting him?  Me disagreeing with his thought that he was gonna put Faile in a good light is not insulting at all.   

[Barmacral]

You have failed very badly to Put Faile in a good light

 

I thought he did a good job of it actually, of course, I rather like Faile myself. Don't insult him because you disagree with him.

 

Could you point out where i was insulting him?  Me disagreeing with his thought that he was gonna put Faile in a good light is not insulting at all.   

 

I bolded the part where its insulting, its in the way you said it. If you had phrased it differently, then perhaps it wouldn't be insulting.

[Thor]

she failed when she was captured.  other times she was alright.

[Ahaz Flagg]

You have failed very badly to Put Faile in a good light

 

I thought he did a good job of it actually, of course, I rather like Faile myself. Don't insult him because you disagree with him.

 

Could you point out where i was insulting him?  Me disagreeing with his thought that he was gonna put Faile in a good light is not insulting at all.   

 

I bolded the part where its insulting, its in the way you said it. If you had phrased it differently, then perhaps it wouldn't be insulting.

 

Eggads man, i knew there was reason i got sick of coming here. if you find that insulting, there is no help for you.  worry not, this is not the only wheel of time forums, I will never post here again. You sir are wrong 100 %.

[Perrin 187]

she failed when she was captured.  other times she was alright.

Who would have thought their were hundreds of thousands of aiel all the way in Ghealden whom didn't follow Jietoh. She had a good bodyguard agianst any of Masema's rabble. But outnumbered against aiel and caught off guard would result in a slaughter. So I don't take points away from her being captured. Most people who couldn't channel would have had the same fate.

[Perrin 187]

I think Flagg people have a problem with how you hate faile because unlike the orginal poster who went into detail of why he likes faile, you just sort, of said well I hate her any way. And posters like Barmacral found that stupid. If you counter the OP points with reasons why you dislike faile, people will find you more reasonable.

[Epic]

I think alot of people don't like her because she was considering jumping into Rolan's bed to escape.  Personally, I think she's badass.  Elayne on the other hand........

[Perrin 187]

I think alot of people don't like her because she was considering jumping into Rolan's bed to escape.  Personally, I think she's badass.  Elayne on the other hand........

I got the impression Faile was just toying with him so she could escape. Kinda like Berelain with the Tairen and Illian lords, playing with their hormones but rarely going the full mile.

 

Elayne I don't like because avienda is sort of right in WH when she said Elayne was sort of a lightskirt,(Randland slang for whore). Becuase she thinks she is truly in love with rand just because she met him in the Palace garden for a minute and then madeout with him for a couple days in the stone of tear. She thinks she knows him when I doubt she even knows the name of his dad, or would be able to recall in detail much about him. Its vice versa in regards to Rand, I doubt he knows much about Elayne or Avienda for that matter. But I've gotten the impression that avienda understands much about him and his personality. This is a reason Rand is short of my top 5 character list, and why Elayne isn't very close at all.

 

But now I'm begining to change the topic of the Thread so I'll stop there. 

[CTM]

I have nothing against Faile though she isn't one of my favourites. Perrin is the one who spends several books moping around. She does okay with the situation she was given. Perrin should have gotten with Elayne so they could cry and moan in half as many chapters.

[Mandragoran]

Off-topic deviation coming up.

Elayne I don't like because avienda is sort of right in WH when she said Elayne was sort of a lightskirt,(Randland slang for whore).

Hold it there. That description applies to most wetlander women coming from an Aiel former maiden's point of view, just as Elayne thought Aviendha used violence to solve everything comes from the wetlander perspective of Aiel savagery. They both had prejudices that had more to do with where the other came from. If you observe that First Sister ceremony, the Wise Ones are more broad minded than Aviendha who thinks like a Maiden in 'womanly matters', hence their previous friction over getting close to Rand and the Wise Ones being warm to Berelain when most wetlander women think she is too forward.

 

Becuase she thinks she is truly in love with rand just because she met him in the Palace garden for a minute and then madeout with him for a couple days in the stone of tear. She thinks she knows him when I doubt she even knows the name of his dad, or would be able to recall in detail much about him. Its vice versa in regards to Rand, I doubt he knows much about Elayne or Avienda for that matter. But I've gotten the impression that avienda understands much about him and his personality. This is a reason Rand is short of my top 5 character list, and why Elayne isn't very close at all.

Elayne has more cause than is presumed apart from the Pattern itself. Rand makes an impression on everyone at their first meeting and Elayne kept hearing about Rand after, not least from Min and Egwene. For Rand it begins as an infatuation with a kind-hearted, beautiful, unattainable woman who mended his hurts, saved his hide and thought him handsome. Once they start to see each other in Tear, he discovers she genuinely likes him and that he has a lot to learn from her about politics and running a country which they share in common and she in turn finds him to be the strong person she thought he'd be, one who appreciates and values her for more than her looks. So it wasn't all simply making out. Since then they've had a long distance relationship.

 

Aviendha and Rand both got to know each other but if Rand doesn't understand her as well as she does him, it's because she's a woman. Perrin doesn't always understand Faile either. How long did Faile know Perrin or Mat - Tuon before either pair got married? Tuon doesn't even love Mat yet and Perrin did it in a crisis so he could save Faile. Rand and his 3 only bonded after admitting he loved them and the declaration itself took place a long while after they first got to know each other. I think it's meaningless to compare any of the relationships with others, all of them were sufficiently developed in their own unique ways.

 

 

[Ziggdiezan]

the thing i dont like is Faile sneekyness :P. like when she goees behind perrins back with her wetland aiel guys. she was spying and stuff. Someone said that she did things to benif perrin over rand and then someone said that Rand isnt her husband. Well if she messes Rand up to much it could be every1 including Perrin who is dead. I dont like how untrusting she is of Perrin either, like he tells Faile all the time he wouldnt and hasnt cheated on her. but she always like dosent trust him and thinks that if she dosent intervene that perrin with go for berylain.

[Jestr1323]

Yea, I agree the sneakyness was a little annoying, but...according to her. It is the wife's job and of course, faile being faile, she's going to do it whether he agrees or not.  ;D

 

As for the trust issue: there was a trust issue at first with berelain, but towards the end there, I didn't think that issue was there any longer. Wasn't it mostly a big deal because Perrin would raise his voice at Berelain and do all the arguing with her and only be "nice" to Faile...when Faile, being Saldaen, thought that he thought she was weak for not taking control of her...?? I think that makes sense