who betrayed egwene

[dholm]

What, because Egwene made a mistake? She regretted relying on a novice for what she could do herself, and better in the bargain. I don't think that's so odd. She should have prepared herself better, of course, but it was a spur-of-the-moment decision, so I can forgive that.

 

Also, I doubt she expected to be betrayed. The risk would not have been great, especially if she had prepared herself properly (i.e. reversing her weaves, and whatnot).

[Charlz Fel]

What, because Egwene made a mistake? She regretted relying on a novice for what she could do herself, and better in the bargain. I don't think that's so odd. She should have prepared herself better, of course, but it was a spur-of-the-moment decision, so I can forgive that.

 

Also, I doubt she expected to be betrayed. The risk would not have been great, especially if she had prepared herself properly (i.e. reversing her weaves, and whatnot).

 

If that were her reason, it would make sense.  But it's not. Egwene gives that explanation to Bodewhin, while thinking that she can't explain the real reason:

he could not explain about Larine and Nicola, or the price the White Tower demanded of all its daughters.  The Amyrlin could not explain the one to the novice, and a novice was not ready to learn about the other.

This mental explanation seems rather incoherent to me.  The explanation given when Egwene makes the decision is not a great deal better:

Instead of eating, she stared at Tiana's report lying to the side of the table.  Nicola might not have gained the shawl in spite of her potential, but the Tower had long experience in taking muleheaded, fault-ridden women and turning them into confident Aes Sedai.  Larine had a bright future ahead of her, but she had to learn to obey the rules before she could begin learning which could be broken and when.  The White Tower was good at teaching both things, but the first always came first.  Bode's future would be brilliant.  Her potential almost equaled Egwene's.  But Aes Sedai, Accepted or novice, the Tower required you to do what was needed for the Tower.  Aes Sedai, Accepted, novice, or Amyrlin.

 

[...]

 

[H]er eyes fell back on Tiana's report.  Nicola, Larine, and Bode.  The White Tower was a strict taskmistress.  Unless the Tower is at war by consensus of the Hall, the Amyrlin shall not. . . . But the Tower was at war.

 

She did not know how long she sat staring at that piece of paper with one name on it, but when Siuan returned, she had made up her mind.  A strict taskmistress who never played favorites.

All of this is very much in line with Egwene's normal principles; it just doesn't seem relevant here--except, perhaps, to someone who has been Compelled to find a reason to take Bode's place.

 

Equally importantly, it feels like there are too many coincidences pushing this character toward this particular decision--Sheriam happening to make a suggestion to the Amyrlin that was inappropriate and presumably out-of-character, Aran'gar happening to take out the two sisters ahead of Bode (and presumably knowing that she was doing this, since Delana is a Sitter).  It's not solid evidence--it could be the Pattern--but somehow, it just feels wrong to me.  Especially since RJ managed to insert, into the same chapter, a reminder that using Compulsion, characters can be made to do things that they think are their own will.  That almost has to be a hint, or at least a red herring.

[dholm]

All of those reasons back up her explanation to Bodewhin. The fact that she can't explain in detail does not mean that what she does explain is wrong -- and Egwene is determined to live as if she had already taken the Three Oaths. If she broke one of them here, she would probably regret it in her own mind, at the very least.

 

Anaiya and Kairen were murdered for their connection to Cabriana Mecandes, whom Aran'gar claims friendship with. While there are other possible motives -- such as Anaiya's belief that Egwene is a Dreamer, and Kairen's skill at making cuen'dillar -- only that explanation covers why they were both killed. If it was simply to get Egwene to replace one of them, Aran'gar should have murdered Leane. Murdering Kairen, when said murder could expose her -- as it indeed does -- would be foolish if she had an alternative.

[deathgate]

I am surprised no one has mentioned the most logical name especially since they are actually in camp. Bela. Case closed.  ;D

[matrulz]

well ill start by saying that ive only read through WH & CoT once( and maybe read through some of the better bits a few more). with that said why does she have to be betrayed!? the city of tar valon had only one real weakness..the harbors. that would have been common knowledge so why would they not be under constant guard when you have a enemy camped outside the city. egwene thinks she is betrayed but is there any evidence to support it or alude to it? ???

 

but i do like charlz's hypothesis about halima.i never really worked out where that thread was going, so maybe. ;D

[balefireruinssteaks]

I am surprised no one has mentioned the most logical name especially since they are actually in camp. Bela. Case closed.  ;D

 

if i'm not mistaken, Bela is currently in Cairhien, not with the rebel Aes Sedai.

 

Though, if she did learn how to Travel she might have betrayed Egwene - but I thought those two were friends, hehehe.

[Braus]

Siuan took Bela to Salidar me thinks.

[Mr Ares]

I am surprised no one has mentioned the most logical name especially since they are actually in camp. Bela. Case closed.  ;D

No-one mentioned it because they still appreaciate the ability to walk. *Kneecaps deathgate*

 

Though, if she did learn how to Travel she might have betrayed Egwene - but I thought those two were friends, hehehe.

*Feeds balefireruinssteaks into a meatgrinder*

[Darkholme]

I always thought it was Beonin who betrayed her and I assumed was confirmed during Egwene's confrontation with her in KoD. She was always at the negotiations so she could have easily slipped a note to someone or let something slip in the conversations.

[dholm]

Beonin specifically says she didn't betray Egwene. She took the chance to break herself free of her when Egwene was captured, though, which she admits readily.

[deathgate]

I am surprised no one has mentioned the most logical name especially since they are actually in camp. Bela. Case closed.  ;D

No-one mentioned it because they still appreaciate the ability to walk. *Kneecaps deathgate*

 

Walking with a cane after well deserved hurt. I'm not sure anyone betrayed Egwene but just betrayed the cause. They didn't want the harbors closed and squealed. Egwene was a bonus. Perhaps the wheel weaved a little there so she could accomplish things inside the WT.

[matrulz]

well im going to have to reread WH and CoT, but i feel if anyone is responsible for egwenes capture its gareth byrne. he is supposed to be some great general but tacticly, why whould you not block the harbor gate imediatly or even before the aes sedai and the army came through. waiting any amount of time just alerted the defenders of tar valon and they would have kept the harbors under 24 hour guard. gareth's got suian's eyes on the brain just a little to much to be an effective general anymore :o

 

and MrAres whats with all the violence towards the followers of Bela....im sure bela will forgive you...and save you in your hour of need ;D because thats what a true hero of the wheel would do :D ;D ;)

[Mr Ares]

and MrAres whats with all the violence towards the followers of Bela....im sure bela will forgive you...and save you in your hour of need ;D because thats what a true hero of the wheel would do :D ;D ;)

*Drowns matrulz in Gothmog's piss* You had it coming.

[Dmitri]

and MrAres whats with all the violence towards the followers of Bela....im sure bela will forgive you...and save you in your hour of need ;D because thats what a true hero of the wheel would do :D ;D ;)

*Drowns matrulz in Gothmog's piss* You had it coming.

 

That was kinda harsh  ;D

 

 

[lou]

ha! that was nothing. ive taken far worse, as you are about to.....

[Piotr]

*bans bela from topic*

 

*says* MY topic  ;D

[matrulz]

 

splash , splash, gurgle........ :o ??? ;D

[Thorum]

*Points to Fiddlesticks for the rest of this page*

[Mr. Dragon]

Gareth Bryne has a lot to lose if the rebels are unable to take the tower (he would almost certainly be executed) so it's unlikely he would do any intentional damage to the rebels.

[matrulz]

i dont think Gareth Bryne betrayed egwene or the plan....i dont think anyone had to...if the plan was not implemented before the aes sedai showed up, or at least immediately after than its a serious tactical failure. waiting as long as they did before implementing the plan gave elaida's forces time to put the harbor gates under 24 hour watch both by guards, and because its a rebel aes sedai army, aes sedai. it was bound to fail....that being said its a great way to get ewgene into the tower, and i think its enough of a writing tool to work RJ's magic...ive never noticed anything else,such as betrayal, to get her there.

 

but i am reading WH and CoT again because im curious now. 

[Majsju]

ive never noticed anything else,such as betrayal, to get her there.

 

 

 

Well, the comment by one of the sisters who captured her, that they got betr than they bargained for, one might say that more than hints at someone betraying the plan.

[CTM]

well im going to have to reread WH and CoT, but i feel if anyone is responsible for egwenes capture its gareth byrne. he is supposed to be some great general but tacticly, why whould you not block the harbor gate imediatly or even before the aes sedai and the army came through. waiting any amount of time just alerted the defenders of tar valon and they would have kept the harbors under 24 hour guard. gareth's got suian's eyes on the brain just a little to much to be an effective general anymore :o

 

and MrAres whats with all the violence towards the followers of Bela....im sure bela will forgive you...and save you in your hour of need ;D because thats what a true hero of the wheel would do :D ;D ;)

 

Byrne had a plan to block the harbour, but it depended on buying ships before arriving. If I remember, he wasn't given notice by Egwene that gateways were going to be used.

[Chance]

 

Byrne had a plan to block the harbour, but it depended on buying ships before arriving. If I remember, he wasn't given notice by Egwene that gateways were going to be used.

 

First of all, I agree with this statement. But. . .

 

He told Egwene Tar Valon could be taken, and that included blocking the harbour. She didn't want to do that. Starving people upset her.  I don't believe it was ever part of her plan.

 

Secondly, Byrne had to figure something was amiss, when Egwene annoucing to the meeting, that they would stay 30 days, and then leave, or be off Andor or Murandy's land (whichever one it is).  It reminds me of Tam. He had to know something of the karetheon cycle, when he picked up a child from dragonmount.  I also don't think Byrne betrayed Egwene. (although she had it coming, just for general purposes)

 

disclaimer:

Only my opinion. Evidence may or may not be in existence for anything that may or may not be said, nor anything implied, if anything is implied.

 

 

 

 

[Luckers]

The plan to seal the harbours with cuendillar was Egwene's.

[wavemistresstrammell]

Hello, I'm new here  ;D This is my first post.

 

I always assumed it was Nicola that said something. I'm only on my second read through of the series, and I'm only on LoC, so I may have misinterpreted something. *shrugs*