Aiel and Shadow tactics

[Builder]

I think the Aiel would win over a an equal number of trollocs, but what I wonder about is whether or not Taim knows of how the Aiel tactics work in battle. If he does he could tell to other Forsaken/Moridin. I remember a guy once telling how the only way to defeat the Aiel was with using their own tactics against them. I think this was a Shienaran.

 

If the Shadow knows of their tactics this would be a major setback for the Aiel because they wouldn't be as effective.

[Majsju]

Taim does not really strike me as one of the greater tacticians, so even if he knew how the Aiel behaved in battle, I doubt he would understand what they did.

[Bob T Dwarf]

You're overlooking the established fact that Taim was defeating Bashere, who is supposed to be one of the Great Captains.  He must understand tactics better than you think.

[Mr Ares]

Or he was just making good use of the Power.

[Bob T Dwarf]

You don't defeat an army commanded by a Great Captain using Power alone.  Even when you do use Power, you need to know which weapon, how much to use, and where to apply it, just as you need to know where to sent the infantry and when and where to bring in the cavalry.

 

That's all tactics.

[Builder]

I think that even if he didn't exactly understand anything about tactics that he simply could have told someone who does know much about tactics about the Aiel tactics.

[MatsLuck]

I remember a guy once telling how the only way to defeat the Aiel was with using their own tactics against them. I think this was a Shienaran.

That was Lan, speaking to Rand in the waste. I think it might be a little early to discuss tactics though. There are still so many ways it could play out, and we don't really know who will be forming tactics for the good (or bad) side. Mat would be an obvious choice, but the battle/war may be taking place over numerous places. There is nothing yet to say that the Aiel will be using their normal tactics. Guess we'll see.

[Builder]

I remember a guy once telling how the only way to defeat the Aiel was with using their own tactics against them. I think this was a Shienaran.

That was Lan, speaking to Rand in the waste. I think it might be a little early to discuss tactics though. There are still so many ways it could play out, and we don't really know who will be forming tactics for the good (or bad) side. Mat would be an obvious choice, but the battle/war may be taking place over numerous places. There is nothing yet to say that the Aiel will be using their normal tactics. Guess we'll see.

 

They have been using them so far in history, and it's proven to be quite effective. The trollocs don't call the Waste for the Death Fields (I think that's the right name) for nothing.

[Majsju]

I think that even if he didn't exactly understand anything about tactics that he simply could have told someone who does know much about tactics about the Aiel tactics.

 

If you do not understand tactics, there is no way you can describe them in a way that covers everything.

And, where would Taim have come into contact with Aiel tactics in the first place? The only time he is on the field against or with Aiel is at Dumais Wells, and he arrives too late to see any actual tactics come into play.

[MatsLuck]

They have been using them so far in history, and it's proven to be quite effective. The trollocs don't call the Waste for the Death Fields (I think that's the right name) for nothing.

We're talking battle tactics here. Its not like there is a set pattern that they always use, they change based on multiple different variables, the ground, attack or defense, winning a specific objective, size and mobility of each army, and many more I'm sure. Simply knowing one specific tactic they like won't be a big advantage, and like Mat says (quoting that bad ass general...Coulmadrin? something like that) The best battle plans last for the first five minutes. Both sides are going to learn and adapt as the battle/war progresses.

[Builder]

Hmm, yeah. Well my worry was that Taim had somehow managed to get hold of the tactics used a lot by the Aiel.

[Majsju]

Because the shadow would have no way of learning that from, uhm...an Aiel DF, who would know a great deal more than taim, even if he had been a good tactician?

[Builder]

But by the rule of someone that doesn't know much about tactics wouldn't be able to tell it in it's whole, this wouldn't be applicable.

[Majsju]

Considering the nature of Aiel society, I would guess that quite a few of them have at least a basic understanding of tactics. Enough to be able to describe it in terms of "This is how we usually do it".

[Mr Ares]

You don't defeat an army commanded by a Great Captain using Power alone.

No, but it helps a lot. The rest is just brute force. Taim tends towards bluntness.

[Builder]

Alrighty then. I just hope things won't go down the shitter during TG because all of a sudden trollocs do advanced tactics.

[Thor]

they've always used advanced tactics, when they have a proper leader leading. (not like a retard like luc/isam)

[Builder]

Well I don't think I've ever seen trollocs under good leadership. I've only seen them under Luc/Isam and he sucks at leading troops. He's definitely more of a assassin type of guy.

[Majsju]

Well I don't think I've ever seen trollocs under good leadership. I've only seen them under Luc/Isam and he sucks at leading troops. He's definitely more of a assassin type of guy.

 

WEll, with TG coming soon, chances are quite good we will see trollocs led by Demandred, and ha was a quite decent tctician back in the days...

 

 

[Builder]

Yeah. I'm looking forward to the battle scenes in book 12.

[Ashaman Kovan]

You don't defeat an army commanded by a Great Captain using Power alone.

No, but it helps a lot. The rest is just brute force. Taim tends towards bluntness.

 

You do if you have a small army of people using the Power. Which Taim has.

[Hybrid]

You don't defeat an army commanded by a Great Captain using Power alone.  Even when you do use Power, you need to know which weapon, how much to use, and where to apply it, just as you need to know where to sent the infantry and when and where to bring in the cavalry.

 

That's all tactics.

It wasn't just the Power alone.  Taim also had the advantage of declaring himself the Dragon - and we've seen what that does to nations.  Half of the Saldaeans probably flocked to join him when they heard his proclamation.  When Ituralde fought the Seanchan damane he had consolidated his forces and had the time to draw up a battle plan.  Bashere would not have had the time or the resources - the country would have been in chaos.

[Muad Cheade]

Hybrid pretty much hit the nail on the head. Whenever a (false) Dragon is declared thousands declare for him. Many of which are not even from the same nation. I remember in one of the books, there was a False Dragon in Tear who couldn't even channel yet thousands declared for him. I wouldn't be surprised if Bashere was outnumbered by Taim.

 

As for the original post, Aiel tactics are known to those who have fought them as Lan proved in The Shadow Rising. Trollocs don't fear the Aiel, they fear the Aiel Waste. During the Trolloc Wars, an invasion force sent there was defeated by the Aiel Clans. However, Tarmon Gai'don will not be the same as the Trolloc Wars. The numbers of Shadowspawn will drastically increase. Also, the Aiel will not be able to retreat deep into the Aiel Waste and use hit and run tactics do weaken the already dehydrated Trolloc forces as they did in the Trolloc Wars because they will not be going back to the Waste.

 

The Shadow does have one of the most capable generals in Demandred, yet I wonder how the Shadow will change it's tactics due to losing it's other three top generals in Rahvin, Sammael, and Bel'al. Undoubtedly, they have other skillful commanders.

[Durinax]

I think that there will be lots of advanced tactics coming from the shadows side during the TG, especially using gateways to send messages and coordinate their forces. After all there will be alot more management on their part with dreadlords rising up and hopefully the forsaken throwing away their competition to work together making it more epic.

 

personnally I think the best tactic of the shadow would be to have a signal so that darkfriends within the opposing army will suddenly start killing the people around him, this would demolish moral and cause mistrust and paranoia within a army which would be disastrous

[Majsju]

personnally I think the best tactic of the shadow would be to have a signal so that darkfriends within the opposing army will suddenly start killing the people around him, this would demolish moral and cause mistrust and paranoia within a army which would be disastrous

 

Indeed. Well, mayne not so blunt as to just stand up and kill as many as possible until they are brougt down. But more subtle sabotage, poison water sources and food, stop a crucial message from being delivered, provide the shadow with inside intel, etc. And that is just what a common footsoldier can do, a DF channeler has quite a few more tools at hand.