Rand kneeling before the crystal throne...

[Mr Ares]

To fulfill the Seanchan prophecy, he just Travels to Seanchan, and kneels before the empty Crystal Throne.

Why would he bother? He doesn't have to fulfill the Seanchan prophecy. Also, RJ said he's not going back there.

[Thor]

you are wrong about everyone needing rand more than he needs them.

 

if the shadow wins, either the whole world is destroyed, hence nobody survives, hence nobody would care anyways, or people are forced to work under the shadow, which wouldn't be too bad for many of the people.

 

rand on the other hand, can't do anything on his own.  i'd love to hev see him going to the semirhage meeting alone for example.

[Builder]

if the shadow wins, either the whole world is destroyed, hence nobody survives, hence nobody would care anyways, or people are forced to work under the shadow, which wouldn't be too bad for many of the people.

 

Why would that not be bad for a lot of people. I would rather be poor and work like hell for some noble than be poor and work like hell for the Shadow.

[Thor]

are the people in sion really better off than those in the matrix?

[Builder]

are the people in sion really better off than those in the matrix?

 

That example is completely irrelevant. First off the machines don't want to harm the people living in the matrix. The Shadow wouldn't care if people died because they pushed them too hard.

[Thor]

strange, i recall lots of humans being killed by the machines also when they took over.

[Builder]

That was during the battles in which humans still held territories. Believe me I know much about the movies. Besides as I've already stated this example is completely irrelevant.

[Thor]

how is it irrelevant?  you speak of shadow vs light, that is simply names of 2 factions, just as in the matrix.

[Builder]

No I wasn't talking solely about that. Besides if you haven't figured it out by now I won't waste my time.

[Mandragoran]

you are wrong about everyone needing rand more than he needs them.

 

if the shadow wins, either the whole world is destroyed, hence nobody survives, hence nobody would care anyways, or people are forced to work under the shadow, which wouldn't be too bad for many of the people.

In either scenario, Rand is going to die anyway as far as everyone knows. The way they'd see it, why should he have to lift a finger when he doesn't gain anything for himself? He is fated to suffer death no matter what happens but they still have a chance to save everything.

 

 

[Rael]

I would argue that Jordan has built Rand up as an extremely stubborn character who will kneel for nobody. It would be out of character for him to kneel to anybody. There will be a truce between the Seanchan and Rand. He will not go to Seandar, because as Mr. Ares said, we will not see their land again.

[Dunedain Fal]

To fulfill the Seanchan prophecy, he just Travels to Seanchan, and kneels before the empty Crystal Throne.

Why would he bother? He doesn't have to fulfill the Seanchan prophecy. Also, RJ said he's not going back there.

 

Ok then he sends someone to bring the Crystal Throne to Randland.

[Builder]

He won't kneel!!

[Owners.Inc]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't some of the original Seanchan prophecies get corrupted after Hawking's brats landed there? I (probably incorrectly) assumed that in their awe of the Crystal Throne, the Seanchan sort of modified the prophecies so that the Empress, (may she live forver) would be pleased and give them doggie treats.

 

Dunno if someone mentioned this already, but maybe it means that Rand has to bow down to the current holder of the crystal throne: i.e. Tuon. The problem there is that, its not clear that Tuon holds the throne - she has to fight off her family. Plus, there's still the "He will bind the Nine Moons to him" part of the prophecy. He can't bind and bow can he?

[Mr Ares]

Ok then he sends someone to bring the Crystal Throne to Randland.

Why bother?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't some of the original Seanchan prophecies get corrupted after Hawking's brats landed there? I (probably incorrectly) assumed that in their awe of the Crystal Throne, the Seanchan sort of modified the prophecies so that the Empress, (may she live forver) would be pleased and give them doggie treats.

They were corrupted by Ishamael.

 

Dunno if someone mentioned this already, but maybe it means that Rand has to bow down to the current holder of the crystal throne

They have. Rand isn't the kneeling type.

[Hybrid]

Rand isn't the kneeling type.

Agreed.  Someone brought up the example of the Aiel, but Rand made a mistake there.  He had almost no experience with the complexities of Aiel culture, and he just said the wrong part of the ritual.  And showing respect to rulers does not include kneeling - that would be dangerously close to an acknowledgement of their supremacy.  It's not Rand's intentions that would matter, in this case, it's the interpretations of the rulers.

 

Too bad we know Tuon will realise this, and there will be a truce, I would much have prefered to see the Seanchan completely destroyed.

I actually like the Seanchan (relative to some of the other societies), with the obvious exception of their use of slavery.  In some ways they have a more honest society than the majority we've encountered.

[Krazikarl]

Ok then he sends someone to bring the Crystal Throne to Randland.

Why bother?

 

Given Rand's problems with getting people to do what he wants (especially rulers of other countries)it would be a useful ter'angreal to have around I'd think.

[Hybrid]

Ok then he sends someone to bring the Crystal Throne to Randland.

Why bother?

 

Given Rand's problems with getting people to do what he wants (especially rulers of other countries)it would be a useful ter'angreal to have around I'd think.

 

IIRC, it inspires awe and fear in those before it.  But Rand can inspire awe and fear just by waving his hand (figuratively speaking) - we saw this in Cairhien.  I don't think it would be a necessary tool for him, and so I don't think it will be included.

[Krazikarl]

And as soon as Rand stopped waving his hand, they immediately started plotting behind his back.

 

The Crystal Throne seems to do a much better job, which is why I suggested it.  Plus, it would mean that his appointed regents could use the Throne and get the fear and awe.  We've seen his appointed rulers have all kinds of problems already, so the Throne would help I'd think.

 

But yeah, I dont think that he actually will go and get it.

[Thor]

 

I actually like the Seanchan (relative to some of the other societies), with the obvious exception of their use of slavery.  In some ways they have a more honest society than the majority we've encountered.

 

idd, i can't believe the audacity of a poster earlier to call hawkwing's descendent 'brats'.  i'd like to see how well your children do at conquering an entire continent while completely separated from your homeland with no reinforcement.

[Owners.Inc]

I called them brats cos I don't like them.I have hopes that my children fail spectacularly at conquering anything.

[Epic]

OK, two things:

 

One: there two ways in which a person can kneel; on either one or two knees.  On two, it is a show of deference and submission, while on one more of a sign of respect, among equals perhaps.

 

Two: I've read this topic and there's a whole bunch about bowing to the throne or Tuon rather than kneeling.  In Japanese (cough) Seanchan (cough) culture bowing replaces the hand-shake for greeting in business and anything else quite frankly.

 

Just saying that its two ways Rand could go without any loss of face at all while making the Seanchan happy and uniting much of Randland to face Tarmon Gaidon.

[Muad Cheade]

Yes, Ishamael corrupted the Seanchan prophecies but 1). we don't know if rand or any of the others are aware of it. 2). Even if they were aware, the Seanchan would not easily believe something they have believed in for the past few centuries was corrupted by one of the Forsaken.

 

I do believe somehow Rand will have to kneel to the Empress Tuon, may she live forever, either to simply help the truce to be approved or for some other reason. He is not an all powerful force of nature. He will have to answer to rulers for his actions/inactions. Four Borderlander Rulers are looking for him with 13 Aes Sedai and 200,000 well-armed/trained men and a viewing also said that "Rand will meet the Amyrlin (Egwene?) and know her anger." He is not completely immune.

 

As for Traveling to Seandar (Capital of Seanchan) so Rand can kneel before the actual Crystal Throne is nearly impossible. When Semirhage murdered the Imperial Family, Seandar was racked with chaos and looting (as were other major cities) and the actual throne was claimed by fifty nobles. Since the actual throne inspires awe to those who behold it, nearly every noble will be seeking to conquer Seandar and the throne. So unless Rand/Tuon brings a force enough to repel tens (or hundreds) of thousands of troops, it is impossible.

[Mr Ares]

One: there two ways in which a person can kneel; on either one or two knees. On two, it is a show of deference and submission, while on one more of a sign of respect, among equals perhaps.

No. One knee is not a sign of equality. And Rand is not the kneeling type, one knee or two.

[Hybrid]

Two: I've read this topic and there's a whole bunch about bowing to the throne or Tuon rather than kneeling.  In Japanese (cough) Seanchan (cough) culture bowing replaces the hand-shake for greeting in business and anything else quite frankly.

1) Have you seen anyone in Seanchan bow to each other?  (Honest question)  It's been a little while, but I don't remember it.  Yes, Seanchan society is partly based on ancient Chinese and Japanese cultures (more on China) but you can't just make inferences the other way around.

2) The Seanchan interpretation of their version makes it pretty clear that the whole bowing/kneeling part is a sign of at the very least deference.

3) Rand isn't the bowing type either.