Moiraine's Husband

[Casco]

Whether it's him or not, she knows her husband, because she learned that from either the twisted doorways (most probable) or her Accepted test.

 

Must have been from the accepted test because she speaks of knowing her husbands face before ever entering the red doorframe ter'angreal.

 

I will be willing to bet anything that Min saw it, and told Moiraine. After all, we know that Min is 100% reliable in these matters, and that she has met both of them together in Baerlon.

But if Min saw it and told Moiraine, she would have known that lanfear wouldl be killed, she would have known that she would be rescued by mat and Thom. She would have known that for 100%, and she isnt 100% sure of that according to the letter to Thom. Hmm my spelling isnt the best after taking a long vacation from English again. I hope you understand.

[mb]

But if Min saw it and told Moiraine, she would have known that lanfear wouldl be killed, she would have known that she would be rescued by mat and Thom. She would have known that for 100%, and she isnt 100% sure of that according to the letter to Thom. Hmm my spelling isnt the best after taking a long vacation from English again. I hope you understand.

Lanfear being killed can happen without Moiraine marrying, and Moiraine marrying can happen without Lanfear being killed; neither requires the other to happen.

A rescue by Mat & Thom is also possible without Moiraine marrying, and Moiraine marrying does not necessarily mean a rescue by Mat & Thom.

So Min would not have known either of those events from only a viewing of Moiraine marrying.  She would need other information in order to know those other events.

 

Besides those who read the letter (or heard it read), only Egwene has an indicator of the rescue (her Dream).

 

[Majsju]

But if Min saw it and told Moiraine, she would have known that lanfear wouldl be killed, she would have known that she would be rescued by mat and Thom. She would have known that for 100%, and she isnt 100% sure of that according to the letter to Thom. Hmm my spelling isnt the best after taking a long vacation from English again. I hope you understand.

Lanfear being killed can happen without Moiraine marrying, and Moiraine marrying can happen without Lanfear being killed; neither requires the other to happen.

A rescue by Mat & Thom is also possible without Moiraine marrying, and Moiraine marrying does not necessarily mean a rescue by Mat & Thom.

So Min would not have known either of those events from only a viewing of Moiraine marrying.

 

Besides those who read the letter (or heard it read), only Egwene has an indicator of the rescue (her Dream).

 

 

I think Casco is talking about what Moiraine would know, not Min.

 

Simply put, if Min had told Moiraine that she had a viewing of Moiraine and Thom marrying, Moiraine would know with 100% certainity that she would be rescued, and at least Thom would survive. But unless she is lying in her letter, she knows nothing of the sort. She does not know if she will be rescued, or even survive the attempt.

 

IF Min had a viewing of Moiraine marrying Thom, and IF she told Moiraine about it, Moiraine either lies in her letter, or she does not believe that Mins viewings always come true.

[arkinia]

Lol, can an Aes Sedai write a lie?

[Majsju]

Rand asks Moiraine about writing a lie in TFOH. She seems to agree with his assumption that an Aes Sedai can not write a lie, but she replies with a nod, not spoken words.

[arkinia]

Can Aes Sedai gesture a lie!?

[mb]

Writing & gesturing might be considered forms of speaking.

 

[Talmanes]

I have to say, COME On!!! One sentence causes all this? She was just making a point that the younger women still didn't know everything and that they had a lot yet to learn. I mean it is possible that Thom and Moraine could get married but there is no major foreshadowing or evidence that it will happen.

[Gentled Ben]

No, Thom also considers that she would make a good wife if not for the fact that she's Aes Sedai. There are other hints sprinkled about than just the one sentence from Moiraine.

[The Doctor]

Also, according to Min, no one ever has full faith in the absolute truth of her viewings, so why would Moiraine be any different?  After her rescue she could be like, "well I never should have doubted Min's viewing."  Not to say it definitely was a viewing, but that just had to be said.

[mb]

No one has full faith in Min's viewings?  Most (if not all) characters seem to believe in Min's viewings including Moiraine.  Very few characters seem to doubt them; Moiraine has not doubted them.

And I do not recall Min saying that kind of statement.  If she did, she could be mistaken.

 

Moiraine marrying Thom I think was a Viewing.

These scenes imply it::

-Moiraine's certainty of Thom being alive when going through the Ways.

-Moiraine knowing the face of who she would marry when speaking to Elayne/Egwene/Nynaeve in Tear.

-Moiraine's certainty that Thom would survive Tanchico when speaking to him before either of them leave Tear.

Moiraine likely would not be as confident as the scenes describe without being told of the event.

 

[Majsju]

And yet, Moiraine does not know if the rescue will actually be successful.

 

So either she lies in her letter to Thom, or she does not have full faith in Mins viewings.

 

Or, Min never told her about this hypothetical marriage-viewing.

 

 

[mb]

And yet, Moiraine does not know if the rescue will actually be successful.

So either she lies in her letter to Thom, or she does not have full faith in Mins viewings.

Or, Min never told her about this hypothetical marriage-viewing.

Forgetting the viewing might be another possibility and that the info was somewhat fresh during the 3 times.

 

[Majsju]

Moiraine, a highly intelligent woman, would just forget the one piece of information that guaranteed that the rescue would be successful?

 

Yeah, that is likely... ::)

[Justen Diablos]

As for Thom being killed by the fade she does state to the boys her reasons.  The main one being that a gleeman getting killed in a street fight in the middle of a small town like Whitebridge would not be forgotten by the time Moiraine, Lan, and Nyn made it into town.  That's a pretty logical deduction actually, especially since we've seen how small town folk react to gleeman, and we can't fault her reasoning.  So maybe it isn't so much a viewing as Moiraine is smart n' stuff. 

 

The comment she makes to the girls I think is just what she said.  They were being all dumb and young talking about marrying when Aes Sedai never marry, and she decided to tell them how dumb and young they were.

 

Finally I always assumed when she told Thom he would live if he went with Nyn and Elayne it was because that was one of her questions she asked the Finn. 

 

"Will Thomdril Marrilin die if he goes to Tanchico?"

 

She seemed to think it was of the utmost importance to get Thom away from Rand, believing Rand's stalling in Tear was a result of Thom's interference.  So if she believed passionately (which we know she did) that Rand had to move and that she must be his only advisor (Thom was getting in her kool-aid after all) perhaps that was worth one of her questions.  So if the answer from the Finns was no, he won't die, she would be able to tell Thom with certainty that he would live.  If memory serves she went to him the day after going into the ter'angreal, which is why I always assumed such was the case.

 

Min having a viewing makes less sense because why would Moiraine be able to state with Aes Sedai certainty that Thom will live through Tanchico based on Min's foretelling of their marriage, and then be unsure if she herself would live through her trial with the finn's later using the exact same logic.  It seems incompatible with her belief in Min's visions.

 

Also Min references the 'one viewing' she hasn't told Rand in a CoS, talking about how bleak he would be to find out that he would almost surely lose the last battle without a woman who was dead and gone.  We can deduce she meant Moiraine because it comes on the heels of her thinking Caroline was Moiraine, and then later (in that same segment of storyline) she mentions her one failed viewing (That of Moiraine being at the Last Battle with Rand).

 

JD

[Tel Janin]

I think Moiraine's suppositions on her rescue were likely garnered from her visit to Rhuidean and her jaunt through the red stone arch... both of those 'venues' for peaking into the future are chock full of 'mights and could-bes'...

 

My two coppers.

[mb]

As for Thom being killed by the fade she does state to the boys her reasons.  The main one being that a gleeman getting killed in a street fight in the middle of a small town like Whitebridge would not be forgotten by the time Moiraine, Lan, and Nyn made it into town.  That's a pretty logical deduction actually, especially since we've seen how small town folk react to gleeman, and we can't fault her reasoning.  So maybe it isn't so much a viewing as Moiraine is smart n' stuff.

Telling that people would notice if a gleeman dies, that seems to be a side point.  The actual reason seems to be that Thom was too important to die yet.

 

The comment she makes to the girls I think is just what she said.  They were being all dumb and young talking about marrying when Aes Sedai never marry, and she decided to tell them how dumb and young they were.

Actually they were talking about love and Egwene asked Moiraine if she ever been in love.  Also Elayne's thought:

And she wasn't cold when she spoke of marrying, however much she pretended to be.

 

Finally I always assumed when she told Thom he would live if he went with Nyn and Elayne it was because that was one of her questions she asked the Finn. 

 

"Will Thomdril Marrilin die if he goes to Tanchico?"

 

She seemed to think it was of the utmost importance to get Thom away from Rand, believing Rand's stalling in Tear was a result of Thom's interference.  So if she believed passionately (which we know she did) that Rand had to move and that she must be his only advisor (Thom was getting in her kool-aid after all) perhaps that was worth one of her questions.  So if the answer from the Finns was no, he won't die, she would be able to tell Thom with certainty that he would live.  If memory serves she went to him the day after going into the ter'angreal, which is why I always assumed such was the case.

A more likely question might be "What should I do about Thom?" and the Aelfinn answering "Send him to Tanchico."

 

Min having a viewing makes less sense because why would Moiraine be able to state with Aes Sedai certainty that Thom will live through Tanchico based on Min's foretelling of their marriage, and then be unsure if she herself would live through her trial with the finn's later using the exact same logic.  It seems incompatible with her belief in Min's visions.

Another possibility: the letter coming across (to us) as Moiraine doubting the viewing when actually she is preparing Thom (and her other rescuers) for the possibilities.

 

Also Min references the 'one viewing' she hasn't told Rand in a CoS, talking about how bleak he would be to find out that he would almost surely lose the last battle without a woman who was dead and gone.  We can deduce she meant Moiraine because it comes on the heels of her thinking Caroline was Moiraine, and then later (in that same segment of storyline) she mentions her one failed viewing (That of Moiraine being at the Last Battle with Rand).

The 'failed' viewing I believe comes from a time when Min was with Moiraine and also is something that Moiraine wished to keep secret.

If the viewing involved Tarmon Gaidon or was about someone failing without her, I suspect Moiraine would have wanted the other person to know.

Also, the only person Min leaves out when telling the Viewings is Moiraine.  Yet Moiraine did have a viewing sometime; because Moiraine mentions having viewings from Min during a discussion in Dragon Reborn.

A marriage would be the only viewing that Moiraine would want secret.

 

[Talmanes]

I agree with Justin Diablos here. I've said much the same already, if not in so much detail. The failed viewing was obviously because Min thinks Moraine is dead and does not know she can be rescued. And when Moraine said she knew the face of the man she would marry better than either of the girls she was just making a point that they do not know everything as they seem to think.

[mb]

I agree with Justin Diablos here. I've said much the same already, if not in so much detail. The failed viewing was obviously because Min thinks Moraine is dead and does not know she can be rescued. Ana when Moraine said she knew the face of the man she would marry better than either of the girls she was just making a point that they do not know everything as they seem to think.

How then would you explain Moiraine not being cold when speaking about marriage?  If Moiraine was not to marry, she would probably have given them a cold response.

Like I pointed out, Moiraine did have at least one viewing before the discussion in Dragon Reborn; it likely came from the time the group arrived at the inn.

And like I pointed out, the viewing was likely something Moiraine wanted to keep secret; other viewings other than marriage Moiraine might not have minded if they were told.

 

[Majsju]

How then would you explain Moiraine not being cold when speaking about marriage?  If Moiraine was not to marry, she would probably have given them a cold response.

Why would she? I have no ontention of getting married anytime soon, yet I can not recall having ever given any cold response when talking about marriage. Quite the contrary.

 

Like I pointed out, Moiraine did have at least one viewing before the discussion in Dragon Reborn; it likely came from the time the group arrived at the inn.

You might want to look at that part again.

 

And like I pointed out, the viewing was likely something Moiraine wanted to keep secret; other viewings other than marriage Moiraine might not have minded if they were told.

 

Right, she is deeply involved with the Dragon reborn and the preparations for TG, and yet her greatest concern is to keep her future marriage the greatest secret on Earth. So secret that she even overrides the Oath against lying.

[Mr Ares]

Why would she? I have no ontention of getting married anytime soon.

Careful, Maj, you're getting on a bit and wouldn't want to be left on the shelf.

[Phariah]

Thom hands down  ;)

Min had a viewing of them getting married when they arrived at Baerlon so she knows her husband face well

Moiraine knows Thom will survive going to Tanchico because of the viewing ( she wouldn't waste a question imo asking if Thom would survive going to Tanchico)

Moiraine goes to Thom in the Stone ( even though she will marry him in the future) she is still fighting the shadow so she must remove his presence from Rand , because at the time she was trying to guide Rand an didnt want other influences on him around.

i mean she is Aes Sedai an she gives him names of red ajah that gentled his nephew an left him to the villagers an she is most passionate in her explanation that ALL  Aes Sedai arent like that an she will show him.

 

[mb]

How then would you explain Moiraine not being cold when speaking about marriage?  If Moiraine was not to marry, she would probably have given them a cold response.

Why would she? I have no ontention of getting married anytime soon, yet I can not recall having ever given any cold response when talking about marriage. Quite the contrary.

Ok, it is possible for a person not intending to marry to not speak coldly about it.

Yet Moiraine would not even give a hint of marrying if she was not to marry.

 

And like I pointed out, the viewing was likely something Moiraine wanted to keep secret; other viewings other than marriage Moiraine might not have minded if they were told.

Right, she is deeply involved with the Dragon reborn and the preparations for TG, and yet her greatest concern is to keep her future marriage the greatest secret on Earth. So secret that she even overrides the Oath against lying.

There are ways to keep a secret without lying.

 

[Talmanes]

Ok, it is possible for a person not intending to marry to not speak coldly about it.

Yet Moiraine would not even give a hint of marrying if she was not to marry.

She didn't give a hint at marrying, she was just making a point!!!

[Majsju]

Yet Moiraine would not even give a hint of marrying if she was not to marry.

She did not.

 

There are ways to keep a secret without lying.

And yet, if this imaginary viewing actually happened, Moiraine did lie.