Hollywood 1940's Mafia! Game Over!

peacesells · May 31, 2009

But what about this? If someone reveals themselves to be the Finder/Healer in order to not be lynched right before the deadline and a rule of thumb is to pull your vote off of them because they JUST MIGHT BE the real thing...then...couldn't it just be a mafia trying to save his own skin? [/color]

yes..but once you find out the truth about that player it gives you great clues based on who they've attacked and defended during the game. Mafia false claiming is very dangerous for them for this reason.

Blig Blog · May 31, 2009

Yes but who's to say how long it takes untill they are found out? How hard is going to be for the REAL Finder/Healer to convince everyone that the Mafia falsely claiming to be an innocent power role is just that? The mafia who's lying could maintain that lie for the entire game! :o After all, this is the game where you're suppose to find out who the lying liers who lie are, am I right? lol

Oh and I was wondering as well, was Pandy an innocent or not? It was never said...although I think that's an innocent i'd like it to be clarified...please! ;D

peacesells · May 31, 2009

Usually what happens is if someone false claims..the real power role counter claims and you lynch one. If he is innocent then you lynch the other. Then you go back over everything the false claimer has said previously for clues on who his partner is. This makes false claiming pretty dagerous.

Leelou · May 31, 2009

As day dawns, you breath a sigh of relief. The relief is short lived. You hear a commotion on the other side of the studio. Jeran is by a lifeless body, sobbing, "How could anyone do this to Sarayne?" In a fit of anguish, Jeran slid the bloody blade out of Sarayne's body and slit his own throat with the sharp blade. Still in shock from the double death, you notice someone else is missing. Someone yells, "over here!" Everyone sprints to the source of the voice. You find Talya with her neck snapped where she was sleeping.

Sarayne, the lover, is dead.

Jeran, the treacherous lover, is dead.

Talya, the Production Design Manager (Jack-of-all-trades), is dead.

It is now day. With 11 alive it takes 6 for a majority vote. Deadline will tentatively be 5:30 pm EST Wednesday, but might be later than that unless a majority is reached first. (I'll be at Disney World until Friday but will have internet access.)

Dark Justice · May 31, 2009

ok... seems one townie and one mafia.

Dont know what Talya would be.. Have to read a bit, to fiure out what that role is...

Dark Justice · May 31, 2009

looked at mafiacum, and Im fairly sure that would always be a pro-town role. Can someone confirm that as true? I have never seen it in play before.

DPR · May 31, 2009

Can you post a link to where you found it on mafiascum?

DPR · May 31, 2009

Nevremind - I was searching "Production Design Manager". Not at my sharpest atm...

DPR · May 31, 2009

Here we are:

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Jack-of-all-trades

Which says:

The Jack-of-all-trades is a role with several night abilities, such as investigating, protecting, etc. Once he has used a type of ability, he won't be able to use it again.

It looks like an Innocent role, and it looks like a powerful one if she had several abilities to use.

DPR · May 31, 2009

I'm going ot post this as well - it's the quote from the "Bulletproof Vest" role.

A Bulletproof Vest is either an item or an intrinsic protected role that provides immunity to nightkill. The role is extremely powerful if unrestricted, since it can literally create a unkillable confirmed townie that can force a draw upon the scum and does not require any skill to use. Some common ways to make it less powerful include:
* limit the number of uses;

* immunity to gunshots may not provide immunity to Serial Killers, since they use non-traditional killing methods;

* remove the immunity in a 1-1 endgame situation, since the townie lacks any way to prevent the Goon from walking up and shooting them "in the head" (the role is entirely passive);

* give the Mafia a role which can invalidate protection, such as a Strongman;

* do not count as town for purpose of the Mafia win;

Bulletproof townies may drop intentional Cops or Doc Tells, since it benefits them to try to draw the attack overnight. This creates a WIFOM situation for scum, if they know such a role exists.

Which I think is most likely an innocent role as well. It's less than good news that these two players have been killed, but it's likely that other players have powerful roles as well to balance things out (innocents and mafia).

Pay special attention to the last sentence and the WIFOM warning. And keep your eyes open for solo win players and other complicated roles.

Jeran · May 31, 2009

Well frak that's twice in a row. :P

See ya on the other side.

Blig Blog · June 1, 2009

Three people dead in one night? Was that two innocents and one mafia?

Oh and:

Usually what happens is if someone false claims..the real power role counter claims and you lynch one. If he is innocent then you lynch the other. Then you go back over everything the false claimer has said previously for clues on who his partner is. This makes false claiming pretty dagerous.

Okay yeah I just remembered that as well...okay i'm good to go now lol, I got my whole mafia game laws, taboos, and rules of thumb stuff straight in my head.

Naeann · June 1, 2009

Nevremind - I was searching "Production Design Manager". Not at my sharpest atm...

*giggles at how frustrated that must have made you*

CUBAREY · June 1, 2009

One small correction on DreadPirateRoberts statement on the JACK 0F ALL TRADES, on alignment Wiki states it could be any. Coupled with the fact that Tayla's name was colored an off-red it might be that she was aligned with the Mafia.

In any case it seems we may have a serial killer on our hands!

Liathiana · June 1, 2009

Erm...where did it say that one of them was a Bulletproof Vest? Am I just missing something?

Talya · June 1, 2009

*is dead* *cries and goes off to eat heavenly brownies :P*

DPR · June 1, 2009

*giggles at how frustrated that must have made you*

;D I was searching around, thinking why have I never heard of this before?[/]

Lia, Bulletproof Vest is just another way to say "bulletproof". And, you can always ask the mod to confirm that or for more details.

CUBA, so far we have four dead and four colors to describe them. To me, you wind up on a slippery slope trying to guess alignment by color, but it does open up a nice door for WIFOMING. :P

Claiming we might have a serial killer is also a bit suspect. We know for a fact that we have a another killer besides the mafia, but whether or not they are a serial killer, a vigilante, or something else remains to be seen. I think we are better off keeping our options open so that we don't let the mafia create blind spots for us, eh?

My best scenario right now is that the mafia killed Talya because she is an experienced player. Then, somebody (and it could have even been Talya as a Jack-of-all-trades) killed Sarayne, probably for being a low-layer and hoping to take a lucky shot. This is speculation, but I think we are dealing with an experienced player, even if the hits were reversed.

What else does everybody have to say?

DPR · June 1, 2009

Clearly, I have not mastered the use of the italics function. That is all.

Dark Justice · June 1, 2009

I think you summed it up all very good there.. Those were my thoughts aswell....

Verbal32 · June 1, 2009

What else does everybody have to say?

Can't say I disagree with you on that post. Either way, I'm wondering whether there was anything behind CUBA's mention of a SK. Deflection? Possibly. Just thinking out loud? Possibly.

mnwhiterose · June 1, 2009

My best scenario right now is that the mafia killed Talya because she is an experienced player. Then, somebody (and it could have even been Talya as a Jack-of-all-trades) killed Sarayne, probably for being a low-layer and hoping to take a lucky shot. This is speculation, but I think we are dealing with an experienced player, even if the hits were reversed.

This seems to be a rather specific explanation to me. How do we know that mafia killed Talya unless, in fact, you are mafia, Wes, and just tipped your hand? As you said, we could have a serial killer or a vigilante on our hands. Why specifically target mafia as Talya's killer?

[glow=red,2,300]DPR[/glow]

DPR · June 1, 2009

Verbal said: Either way, I'm wondering whether there was anything behind CUBA's mention of a SK. Deflection? Possibly. Just thinking out loud? Possibly.

To me, this is the type of comment that is intended to highlight information so that we can all judge what we make of it. This is pretty much helpful to the innocents.

What I find important is that he entertains possibilities and scenarios without trying to lead others down a road.

I think it's safe to say we are all watching CUBA right now, and if he is mafia, then this will very much limit his ability to "sway" anyone, which limits their power. That's good for the inns.

MN said: This seems to be a rather specific explanation to me. How do we know that mafia killed Talya unless, in fact, you are mafia, Wes, and just tipped your hand? As you said, we could have a serial killer or a vigilante on our hands. Why specifically target mafia as Talya's killer?

[glow=red,2,300]DPR[/glow]

To me, this could either be an inexperienced player jumping the gun, or someone who wants to push an agenda. In my comments, I am careful to use wording like "My best scenario" and "This is speculation". That type of language does not make me innocent, but it does make it easy to organize thoughts and information into a usable format for the inns:

COLD HARD FACTS:

Talya was killed during night 1.

Sarayne and Jeran were also killed on night 1, both confirmed as lovers. According to the storyline, Sarayne was hit and Jeran killed himself.

So we know for a fact that their is more than one group or individual capable of kiling at night.

MY SPECUALTION:

Talya was an easy choice for a mafia kill because she has a reputation for being a good player. Naeann, Verbal, and Dj would have also fallen into this catagory. It tells me that the mafia have played with Talya before, and that they know the value of eliminating threats.

I don't see any reason for the mafia to hit Sarayne because it would have been pointless to take out their own player.

By presenting information this way, we do three things:

1. We can keep things clear, build on facts and use thories to build cases.

2. We seriously limit the mafia's ability to WIFOM, metagame, or introduce specualtion as fact and lead us around.

3. We highlight players that are not talking, and we've all been in games where the mafia lurks because it's the safest position for them to play form.

So, here is a little more speculation:

I've not played with MN before, so I don't know her experience level. But if she has played multiple games, It would lead me think that she is pushing a lynch for her own reasons.

So, MN, what is your game history?

DPR · June 1, 2009

Obviously I am having difficulty with my italics/bold/quote programming this morning. I'm reposting the correct way for this to read as:

Verbal said:

Either way, I'm wondering whether there was anything behind CUBA's mention of a SK. Deflection? Possibly. Just thinking out loud? Possibly.

To me, this is the type of comment that is intended to highlight information so that we can all judge what we make of it. This is pretty much helpful to the innocents.

What I find important is that he entertains possibilities and scenarios without trying to lead others down a road.

I think it's safe to say we are all watching CUBA right now, and if he is mafia, then this will very much limit his ability to "sway" anyone, which limits their power. That's good for the inns.

MN said:

This seems to be a rather specific explanation to me. How do we know that mafia killed Talya unless, in fact, you are mafia, Wes, and just tipped your hand? As you said, we could have a serial killer or a vigilante on our hands. Why specifically target mafia as Talya's killer?

[glow=red,2,300]DPR[/glow]

To me, this could either be an inexperienced player jumping the gun, or someone who wants to push an agenda. In my comments, I am careful to use wording like "My best scenario" and "This is speculation". That type of language does not make me innocent, but it does make it easy to organize thoughts and information into a usable format for the inns:

COLD HARD FACTS:

Talya was killed during night 1.

Sarayne and Jeran were also killed on night 1, both confirmed as lovers. According to the storyline, Sarayne was hit and Jeran killed himself.

So we know for a fact that their is more than one group or individual capable of kiling at night.

MY SPECUALTION:

Talya was an easy choice for a mafia kill because she has a reputation for being a good player. Naeann, Verbal, and Dj would have also fallen into this catagory. It tells me that the mafia have played with Talya before, and that they know the value of eliminating threats.

I don't see any reason for the mafia to hit Sarayne because it would have been pointless to take out their own player.

By presenting information this way, we do three things:

1. We can keep things clear, build on facts and use thories to build cases.

2. We seriously limit the mafia's ability to WIFOM, metagame, or introduce specualtion as fact and lead us around.

3. We highlight players that are not talking, and we've all been in games where the mafia lurks because it's the safest position for them to play form.

So, here is a little more speculation:

I've not played with MN before, so I don't know her experience level. But if she has played multiple games, It would lead me think that she is pushing a lynch for her own reasons.

So, MN, what is your game history?

Verbal32 · June 1, 2009

Couple things:

Wes, you might want to unvote yourself, just in case Leelou counts your messed up formatting as a self-vote. Just sayin'. ;)

My best scenario right now is that the mafia killed Talya because she is an experienced player. Then, somebody (and it could have even been Talya as a Jack-of-all-trades) killed Sarayne, probably for being a low-layer and hoping to take a lucky shot. This is speculation, but I think we are dealing with an experienced player, even if the hits were reversed.

This seems to be a rather specific explanation to me. How do we know that mafia killed Talya unless, in fact, you are mafia, Wes, and just tipped your hand? As you said, we could have a serial killer or a vigilante on our hands. Why specifically target mafia as Talya's killer?

[glow=red,2,300]DPR[/glow]

mnwhiterose - just when I'm still thinking Wes is hiding something, you make me think I've got things backwards. Did you see the "even if the hits were reversed" line in Wes' post? I'd honestly be very surprised if he made that mistake....it would be very unlike him. Not saying it can't happen, but I would not bet on it.

That being said, I find myself at a crossroads. I want to vote for Wes, to confirm my suspicions, but mnwhiterose (and CUBA to a lesser extent) have now consecutively pinged my radar. Ugh.

DPR · June 1, 2009

*Tips hat to Verb* good spot.

The mod can confirm this, but as a general rule, votes in quotes are not counted. Having said that, my first :P post was not in quotes and if a mod wanted to get all technical, she could. heh

[glow=red,2,300]unvote DPR[/glow]

And for the metagamers, I would have noticed on the first vote count anyway, so don't get all crazy with the Verbal/DPR conspiracy thoeries.

Hollywood 1940's Mafia! Game Over!

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