Is this the Last Battle?

[Lord Nik]

Sounds like a stupid question but hear me out.

 

We read multiple times that these battles have been going on over and over again as the wheel turns. Hints that the light has even lost and clues that the light has one.

 

What makes this turning of the wheel any different?

 

What if Rand wins. Seals the DO away. Wheel turns and it all repeats its self.

 

We have also read that this time the serpent will be slain bla bla bla time will die DO making the world in his image.

 

These Last battles seem to have been going on for along time what makes this one any more last?

[Eleint]

It doesn't.  It's just what people call it.  Jordan said outright at some point that this isn't going to be a different turning of the Wheel, just a turning.  No breaking the cycle or anything.

[Lord Nik]

But what about the DO going on about breaking the Wheel and that such. So if the DO wins everyone loses forever. If the light wins the DO gets another chance next year....

 

It would seem time is against Humankind in this case.

[cfin5256]

This is an interesting question. The thing that bothers me about it not being the last battle and just another cycling of the wheel is that it's almost like a lose-lose situation for the Light. I mean, sure, you won this time, but it seems like it's just delaying the inevitable. How many bulletts can you dodge before the DO finally wins? He's bound to eventually I would think. Law of averages if nothing else.

[Caedn of the Taardad]

A question both philosophical and confusion, especially when you add in the theory of other worlds.  So long as the Dark One is sealed away in one, he is sealed in all.  But if he where to break free in one, he would break free in all.  The true qustion is is the sealing of the DO all but inevitable, or is it not so much that the DO has to be sealed away at this point, and as such will be for sure, or if in order for the wheel to keep turning it must be so.  I guess it all comes down to how good the Creator and his "pawns" are...

[Builder]

It does seem like the Light is in a lose-lose situation, but the Dragon is powerful.

 

Jenn poses a good question too. I don't think that if the DO broke free in one universe that it means the end of all universes. If there is any parallel universes IRL, then it isn't shown because another universe doesn't affect others.

[Charlz Guybon]

Nope, this is just another turning of wheel.

[Casco]

If this fight have been fought 1000 times... havent the DO won once?

[CUBAREY]

It does seem like the Light is in a lose-lose situation, but the Dragon is powerful.

 

Jenn poses a good question too. I don't think that if the DO broke free in one universe that it means the end of all universes. If there is any parallel universes IRL, then it isn't shown because another universe doesn't affect others.

 

This directly contradicts what we have been told which is if the DO wins in one world he wins in all.

[Lord Nik]

Ok so the if the DO wins everyone loses forever in every world. But this <i> Turning </i> seems to have a big finality about it. There has been alot of people saying that the Dragon is going to DEFEAT the DO this time not merely locking him away... again....

[Dark Justice]

If the light forces wins, DO pulls the "go directly to jail" card, and does not get 200$. He get a chance to get out next turning.

If the DO wins, it will be the last battle. the Creator doesnt seem to care to much. He wouldnt try to re-conquer it in any way.

[mb]

I think Tarmon Gaidon would be the last literal battle for this cycle; or at least for the lives of those who survive.

 

[Lord Nik]

I find that terribly depressing. I really thought that this was the VERY LAST BATTLE. To find out that this is the *last battle of this turning too bad Light it was tough but good luck next time battle*.

 

Is there anyone out there who thinks that this IS the Last Battle?

Like no more Shadow after this forever or just a slap on the wrist and handcuffs for the DO.

[Dark Justice]

Its just gonna be the slap on the wrist. Next turning, its gonna be the same all over again.

[xntric]

I think it's the Last Battle for this Age unfortunately.

For the Last Battle to be truly the LAST, the Wheel of Time needs to be broken. Time needs to be linear rather than cyclic.

[water_seeker]

I agree that it's the last big battle (but not the last battle...) for this turning and that the DO will get another crack at it later.

 

This makes me wonder why it's this particular turning of the wheel we are seeing...does this mean that in this Age the last time it came and the next time it comes it was and will be Rand al'Thor who is the DR?  Or do the names change but the circumstances remain the same?

 

Of course I've always wanted to believe that the Wheel is more like the wheel on a vehicle...it's no good if it's just spinning and the vehicle isn't moving (like it's been put on a jack or something).  This is the turning where the "good guys" knock the wheel off the jack and the vehicle (reality if you like) actually goes somewhere.  That would still allow time to be cyclical (the wheel's still turning, people are still getting spit out when they need to be), but events can actually progress or regress in newer and more exciting ways. I guess that would mean time is both cyclical and linear...

 

But we all know that's not how it's going to happen, and even if it is...we prolly wouldn't find out anyway. :'(

[Mr Ares]

Ok so the if the DO wins everyone loses forever in every world. But this <i> Turning </i> seems to have a big finality about it. There has been alot of people saying that the Dragon is going to DEFEAT the DO this time not merely locking him away... again....

Locking Him away would be defeating Him.

 

For the Last Battle to be truly the LAST, the Wheel of Time needs to be broken. Time needs to be linear rather than cyclic.

Breaking the Weel would destroy time.

 

I think

I have my doubts.

 

If this fight have been fought 1000 times... havent the DO won once?

Degrees of victory. He can win minor victories, that are later undone. He has not yet won a final and lasting victory. If He had, there would be no more world. He only has to get lucky once...

[water_seeker]

I think

I have my doubts.

 

LMAO

[Bela]

I don't remember if I read this or not, but did it say somewhere in the books that the DO is impossible to destroy? If he isn't IMPOSSIBLE to destroy it seems plausible to me that there is a possibility of his destruction. I don't know if previous 'light champions' have had the advantage of a dead man in their head, but it could definitely work in his favor. For example, LTT was there last time, this time instead of sealing the dark one, why not destroy him.

 

I think it's the Last Battle for this Age unfortunately.

For the Last Battle to be truly the LAST, the Wheel of Time needs to be broken. Time needs to be linear rather than cyclic.

 

The Dragon will break the world again. Stepping out on a very flimsy limb here, but that could extend to all worlds or the wheel of time itself. The only problem here is the 'again' part, though again stepping out on a limb, the wheel could have been broken and repaired by....the creator.

 

On another note, the pattern itself was nearly falling apart at the end of Knife of Dreams. Since the wheel weaves the pattern, if the pattern fails then the wheel could break. Becoming a long linear strip which apparently would have an end. Thus, the end of time.

 

On yet another note, there is nothing to say that time cannot be cyclic with the Dark One removed. Age after age of blessed light and no more DO. Though to quote Albert Einstein, "So long as there are men there will be wars." Which does negate the 'Last Battle' thing, but that could also refer to the last battle against the shadow.

 

 

Ok so the if the DO wins everyone loses forever in every world. But this  Turning seems to have a big finality about it. There has been alot of people saying that the Dragon is going to DEFEAT the DO this time not merely locking him away... again....

Locking Him away would be defeating Him.

 

For an immortal being, being locked away would likely be a small defeat. Chances are, in a hundred, or a thousand, or a billion years someone is going to try to break you free, or you are going to be able to do so yourself. There will always be a man scared enough of death, to seek immortal life, and who is the only one who can give that? Another quote: “The difficulty, my friends, is not in avoiding death, but in avoiding unrighteousness; for that runs faster than death.” - Socrates.

 

 

 

Despite that flimsy excuse for evidence, I think we may be seeing the end of the shadow, and the Last Battle against it.

[Lord Nik]

Despite that flimsy excuse for evidence, I think we may be seeing the end of the shadow, and the Last Battle against it.

 

I certainly Hope so. With the Chodan Kal (spelled right) he may be able to smash the DO to pieces!

[Dark Justice]

Well.. why could it, even with the super sangreal (but the female one is gone, remember..), possibly be the LAST battle ever? (unless the DO wins, obviously)

 

 

[Lord Nik]

I'm going to have to join the Ranks of the

"this is the Last Battle against the shadow"

 

I think there will still be wars but not against the DO.

 

Unless the DO wins!!!!!!

[Mr Ares]

I don't remember if I read this or not, but did it say somewhere in the books that the DO is impossible to destroy? If he isn't IMPOSSIBLE to destroy it seems plausible to me that there is a possibility of his destruction.

There is an RJ quote that says:

Why doesn't somebody just Balefire the Dark One?

 

The quantity necessary would destroy the world.

Which implies it is possible to kill Him, but a really bad idea.

 

For an immortal being, being locked away would likely be a small defeat.

But still a deafeat.

[Bela]

I don't remember if I read this or not, but did it say somewhere in the books that the DO is impossible to destroy? If he isn't IMPOSSIBLE to destroy it seems plausible to me that there is a possibility of his destruction.

There is an RJ quote that says:

Why doesn't somebody just Balefire the Dark One?

 

The quantity necessary would destroy the world.

Which implies it is possible to kill Him, but a really bad idea.

 

The question was whether balefire would destroy him. For all we know pouring soapy water on the DO could cleanse the DO's soul and turn him to the light.

 

I am going to quote myself from a post I made less than 5 minutes ago:

 

Everyone seems to think the Dark One is some overpowered omnipotent being. Yes he can touch the world and change the weather, which required only a circle of thirteen to change back. Not a very large amount of the power there, especially compared to Rand and the Choedan Kal. For all we know he/she/it could be a weak old entity/person. They say the Dark One could destroy all worlds. Rand could too.

 

 

For an immortal being, being locked away would likely be a small defeat.

But still a deafeat.

 

It was not the defeat, but it was a defeat.

 

See what I did there?  :D

 

 

[live.fast]

Sorry if I'm making a fool of myself here, but..

 

I remember that philosopher guy (Fell?) talk about how The Last Battle isn't Tarmon Gaidon.

 

WTF did that mean?

 

Does that mean that what's coming up is going to be like, the be all and end all for the WoT universe?

 

Which one was it that they kept facing before in cycles? The Last battle? or Tarmon Gaidon?

 

Or is it that they face both this time?

 

I'm sorry, but that point always had me confused, and I was wondering if that's what it would be.