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[Builder]

Uhh, if the DO wins he doesn't have any intentions of sharing his power with the rest of the Forsaken does he? It reminds me of Sauron and Sarumann. Sauron wouldn't share the power between Sarumann if they won.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I have a feeling that not only will Shai'tan not be sharing any power, he won't be keeping existence itself intact.

[Majsju]

Since I do not buy into the whole "The DO will destroy everything and live happily everafter in his great nothingness", I think he will would keep his pet chosen around. To run things on the ground, and do the DOs biddings. But hsaring any power? Pft, they are allowed to live and serve, that should be reward enough.

[Builder]

So in reality the Chosen and all the DF's are being played with all the time?

 

Edit: This is a pg13 board, we do not use certain words here.

[Caedn of the Taardad]

One thing I've always considered is that the DO wants to win so he can remake the pattern in his own image or some such, so he may basicaly want to put himself in the position of direct power or whatever it is the the Creator now has.  He's already powerful, just trapped, so that would be the only purpose, other than the world being the way he wants it to be, for him to remake the pattern...

[Goramier]

I have actually thought about that alot in the past. Why would anyone be a Chosen or dark friend knowing (unless truly insane) that eventually in short order if the DO wins they are going to get screwed. I think IMO that the idea is that the DO would set up a hierarchy. In that the shadow spawn and enslaved humans/ogier would be at the lowest rung. They would be slaves, the ones to build, service and care for the higher ups. The dreadlords would be the ones who ended up overseeing the slaves. The chosen would be above the dreadlords and then the DO. I think the idea would be that the DO would watch as the Chosen on down, conspire to overtake each others position and power. In other words, the DO would sit back and watch his people kill each other off one by one until there was nothing left. IMO that would end with some sort of destruction, like leaving the world in fire and destruction so no new life could blossom.

 

In the end the real ploy for the dark friends is the idea of living forever. But it doesn't take one long to consider that at some point that would be impossible. When the Rand gang were using the portal stones and seen other worlds in the Hunt, they were in a world that had virtually nothing left but some grolm because the trollocs had ravaged everything and killed each other. I think ultimately that is how it would end leaving the DO with basically the option of ruling a world with nobody or just destroying it.

 

In other words, with a few minutes of thought, the Chosen and friends of the dark are retarded. Outside of being evil for the joy of being evil they are to dumb to realize that if they win, they will still lose. The end.

[Builder]

But if the DO wins and there's nobody left then wouldn't he be bored?

[Sab]

In the end the real ploy for the dark friends is the idea of living forever. But it doesn't take one long to consider that at some point that would be impossible. When the Rand gang were using the portal stones and seen other worlds in the Hunt, they were in a world that had virtually nothing left but some grolm because the trollocs had ravaged everything and killed each other. I think ultimately that is how it would end leaving the DO with basically the option of ruling a world with nobody or just destroying it.

 

That was the Trollocs defeated Hawkwing, when the DO was still sealed away.  Not necessarily the same thing.  The trollocs without and DO or Forsaken leadership would most likely just kill everything.  I can't see the DO winning and letting everything die off, if so whats the point.  He would become the creator and the Nae'blis (spelling??) would rule in his name.

[Builder]

hah, I guess the Creator would have to come down from the skies to battle against the Dark One. Wouldn't that be a sight?

[Jethro]

I think people exaggerate on the Great Lords evil side. People think because the Creator is called the Creator, then his rival absolutely has to be as far opposite from him as there can possibly be. Yet we see the Shaidar Haran, a shadowy form of the Great Lord, fault one of the Chosen (cant remember which) for being overly wasteful. I absolutely refuse to believe that the Great Lord would destroy everything once he was free. Not a chance in hell. Aside from his nemesis being called the Creator, there no reason in the books for anyone to believe he would destroy everything once he was free. RJ said the Great Lord sint human and so doesnt think like one. That still doesnt mean he would destroy everything. Yes he is evil, but he would still want something to be in charge of afterwards, otherwise thousands of years of planning and whatnot would be for what? Nothing? For there to be an absence of existence? Nah

[Sab]

Agree with what you say for the most part, not sure you can say people "exaggerate on the Great Lords evil side", I mean we have seen what he lets his forces do throughout time.  He is totally evil, but there is a big difference between evil and insanity. 

[Goramier]

I think people exaggerate on the Great Lords evil side. People think because the Creator is called the Creator, then his rival absolutely has to be as far opposite from him as there can possibly be. Yet we see the Shaidar Haran, a shadowy form of the Great Lord, fault one of the Chosen (cant remember which) for being overly wasteful. I absolutely refuse to believe that the Great Lord would destroy everything once he was free. Not a chance in hell. Aside from his nemesis being called the Creator, there no reason in the books for anyone to believe he would destroy everything once he was free. RJ said the Great Lord sint human and so doesnt think like one. That still doesnt mean he would destroy everything. Yes he is evil, but he would still want something to be in charge of afterwards, otherwise thousands of years of planning and whatnot would be for what? Nothing? For there to be an absence of existence? Nah

 

Dark friend!

[UGAShadow]

The DO isn't going to destroy creation.  He's going to remake it in his image.

[Jethro]

The DO isn't going to destroy creation.  He's going to remake it in his image.

 

So Im really not the only one that thinks this! Yay

[RobertAlexWillis]

What exactly IS his image?  He is a being of chaos and paradox.  The Pattern, as it exists now, would cease to exist if it were remade in his image.

[Builder]

Gah, you beat me to it RAW. I was just thinking about the same question!

 

Anyways, does it mean that he will have full control and all opposition would be crushed? RJ hasn't really said much on that. Prove me wrong :)

[RobertAlexWillis]

RJ never stated precisely what winning would mean for the Dark One, on purpose, since I'm sure he wanted to save it for the end.

[water_seeker]

Maybe if the Creator hugged the DO more when he was a child he'd play better with others...

 

IMHO, if the DO gets free and redoes everything how he wants it, making ppl worship him or w/e, then what's the big deal?  Would ppl's live's really be that much changed?  Other than the forced religion and the lies, not really.  Sure the minions of the DO kill ppl...but really that's just a means to an end...a way to clear the way for the DO's reign.  There would only HAVE to be killings to stop uprisings and such...but the dissidents would also be trying to kill ppl even if they're jsut trying to throw off the shackles of the DO.

 

And why should the Creator care what happens, if he really just creates the world and moves on?  He can make another one if he wants, after all he IS the CREATOR, that is what he does right?

 

Nope, I don't like it.  There is more to this story than we are getting.  There would be no point to this struggle otherwise.

[Jethro]

My theory is that the Creator made a world, the Great Lord wanted it for himself (because he cant create worlds) and so the Creator created the Wheel of Time, an aspect on reality which would cause the world to save itself using people as tools. Heroes are reborn, Ta'veren are selected, and a particular entity-the Dragon-is spun out with the multitude of heroes so the world can be saved in its darkest hour. The fact that the Great Lord is imprisoned, I believe, is because he stepped into the Pattern at "the moment of Creation" and was caught by the Wheel.

[Mr Ares]

Personally, I think that if Shai'tan wins, whatever remaking the Pattern in His own image involves, people won't be a part of the final design. Which should make Moridin happy, if no-one else.

[Hallow]

Personally, I think that if Shai'tan wins, whatever remaking the Pattern in His own image involves, people won't be a part of the final design. Which should make Moridin happy, if no-one else.

 

I doubt Moridin wowuld even mind if the DO's ultimate goal pooved to be destroying everything..

[Mr Ares]

Personally, I think that if Shai'tan wins, whatever remaking the Pattern in His own image involves, people won't be a part of the final design. Which should make Moridin happy, if no-one else.

I doubt Moridin would even mind if the DO's ultimate goal pooved to be destroying everything..

Well, that is what he wants, which is why it would make him happy.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Moridin, way back when he was Elan Morin Tedronai, openly called for, quote "the destruction of everything".  He wrote a book called "Reality and the Absence of Meaning".  Seriously, guys, do you need clearer clues?  The Dark One plans on destroying existence as we know it by killing time itself.  Moridin loves the idea, because he's a nihilist, which is why he always rises to the top, even when he screws up.  Look at what happened to the other Forsaken that got killed/captured:

 

Aginor - turned into a dumpy old man, roughed up by Shaidar Haran

Balthamel - made into a woman, roughed up by Shaidar Haran

Lanfear - put in a body she doesn't care for, given a name that is a warning, and mindtrapped

Moghedien - repeatedly raped by Shaidar Haran, and mindtrapped

 

...

 

...

 

But Ishy?  Yay, you get a cool new body and a promotion!  Yeah, I know Demandred did a good job while you were gone, but he was never in on the whole plan now, was he? Mwahahahahahaha

 

[Builder]

Wait, wasn't Aginor killed before Shaidar Haran even existed? And Balthamel too?

 

Also where do you know that he wrote a book?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Aginor was killed before Shaidar Haran existed.  However, when he was put into a new body, Shaidar Haran was there.  Read the prologue to Lord of Chaos.

 

The information about Elan Morin Tedronai's call for "the complete destruction of everything" and the titles of the books he wrote as a philosopher can be found in the Guide, otherwise known as the BWB or The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time, on pages 50 and 51.