Axe vs. Hammer

[Builder]

I've been wondering about this for ages. Why did Perrin just leave his axe in the wood? What was the symbolism there. I remember he and Elyas were talking about it, or maybe it was someone else. I don't remember, but the point is that it's a big mystery to me.

[Obligatory WOT Reference]

I think he left it just so he wouldn't have the temptation of using it again. He and elyas had that convo about him throwing the axe away when he started liking using it. So just leaving it and moving on i guess helps him avoid the temptation. Or i guess it could be taken as a metaphor of perrin trying to leave behind war and become a more peaceful guy, with the whole war(axe) vs builder(hammer) debate.

[metria31183]

In EoTW when Perrin first meets Elyas, he goes through this whole thing about could he really Egwene to save her from being eaten alive if the raven caught them.  He talks to Elyas about this afterward and contemplates throwing away the axe then.  Elyas tells him to keep it until he likes using it.

[Builder]

Yes. He uses it to defend himself, not just personally but also in combat like in the defense of the Two Rivers. Then he begins liking to use it, so he eventually throws it away, right? Why does he throw it away just because he likes to use it?

[Shard]

He finally choose the Hammer over the Axe, he wants to build and create thus choosing the Hammer. So he abandonded the Axe because it was becoming too easy for him to use.

[Caedn of the Taardad]

Always before Perrin had used his axe in battle, when he had to fight for his own life or that of someone else.  Now, however, he had just used it to chop off the hand of a captive, just to get him to talk now instead of days later.  He wasn't starting to like it, he says as much to Elyas at the time I think, but I'm not near my books now, so I can't find a quote for you. 

 

Anyway, he saw this as too close to liking to use it, and decided to leave it there, burried in the tree "maybe some fool gleeman can make a story out of it" or some such.  You may recall that this was also one of the signs that Tarmon Gaidon was coming "When the Wolf King weilds the hamme". 

 

So not only had he started down the path of liking to use it, and he was afraid back in EotW that he wouldn't be able to throw it away when he did like using it, but this event was set down by prophesy. 

[Builder]

Understand better now. He didn't want to become a lord of war, but lord of construction (heh, like me :)). What strikes me is that even though he doesn't know of the prophecy (is that true?) he still chooses the hammer instead of the axe. I wonder if he will survive TG to rebuild much of Randland or at least the Two Rivers?

[Shard]

Well I've always felt of the three that Perrin would have the greatest chance of surviving. Ever since reading the Theory of Rand = Destroyer, Perrin = Builder and Mat = Preserver.

[Builder]

Hmm, where did you find that theory? Can you link it?

[MikeRiley]

Perrin didn't like the axe one bit. He absolutely hated it and that was why he threw it away. He tells Elyas this when he's sitting down in the woods after getting rid of it. It's just a small point in this thread, doesn't make much difference, but he didn't like it.

[Kaznen]

I thought he gained a kinda aiel view of weapons.  Their use for killing people is secondary to tools for other things like hunting etc.

 

When Perrin and Faile arrived at Camelyn Sulin left his axe by the fire place like it was used for chopping wood.

 

However, a battle axe is like a sword, its first and foremost purpose is to kill people is battle.

 

Perrin using his blacksmith's hammer shows a more "fight if we have to" idea.  Were the primary purpose of the hammer is not battle.

[Builder]

Ahh, I understand. Thanks for the replies guys, I think I'm clear on the whole Perrin and his Axe and hammer thing now.

[Shard]

Perrin didn't like the axe one bit. He absolutely hated it and that was why he threw it away. He tells Elyas this when he's sitting down in the woods after getting rid of it. It's just a small point in this thread, doesn't make much difference, but he didn't like it.

 

He didn't like it but he found it very easy to use to threaten the Aiel to get information from him. Course you could still make the Aiel a cripple with a Hammer so...

 

As for the theory I am talking about, check the WoT Faq.

[Thor]

He left the axe and changed to the hammer because it's hammer time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what >_>.

[Kaznen]

He left the axe and changed to the hammer because it's hammer time.

 

 

About the answer one could expect from somebody named "Thor."  :D :D

[MikeRiley]

I wonder what his thoughts will be after this latest battle he was in, when he has time to reflect on it? He used his hammer to kill before this if I remember right, but now he used it as a killing tool on purpose and I bet he'll remember it whenever he picks it up.

[Kaznen]

But he'll remember that the primary use of his hammer is for blacksmithing.  Warhammer is very different fom a blacksmith's hammer.

[Caedn of the Taardad]

I agree with Kaznen, the primary role of the tool will make the difference in Perrin's mind, not what he's using it for now/in the past. 

[Builder]

I wonder what Perrin would do after TG? He wouldn't be in a forge would he? I think he would be some sort of ruler that builds a lot  :)

[Dark Justice]

I wonder what Perrin would do after TG? He wouldn't be in a forge would he? I think he would be some sort of ruler that builds a lot  :)

 

Well. It seems like he might become king, so a king that has his own place to swing his hammer an make stuff seems plausible..  ;)

[MikeRiley]

He might not. He is called the Wolf King in the prophecies but if that prophecy was a translation it could have just meant "leader of the wolves" in the old tongue or whatever it was translated from. To fill that part all he would have to do is lead wolves in the Last Battle. I can see Perrin dying in the final book, too.

[Kaznen]

But it is looking plausable that Faile will become queen of Saldaea.  And, becuase it is looking like Randland is heading toward a new world order, she will probally become queen of Kandor, Arafel, and Shienar as well.

 

In PoD we learned of all the inter-royal bloodline marriages.  So Faile is probally related to all the borderland kings and other queen, albiet distantly.

 

Events show the borderland army crossing Andor trying to find Rand and their intentions don't seem completely friendly.  When Mat's Band of the Rand Hand shows up at Whitebridge the borderlanders will start to head in Mat's direction.  Because they know Mat is almost as important as Rand, at least the AS do.

 

And it is looking like Mat will be joined by the Whitecloaks and Perrin's group.  If Perrin doesn't use the refuges to raise another army the Dragonsworn side will be at about 50,000 with the BLers at 100,000. 

 

So the Dragonsworn will be forced into a fight outnumbered 2 to 1.  And while the BLers have Jared Aglemar the Dragonsworn will have Mat f*%#ing Cauthorn and the bulk of his army will be the Band which is used to fightings enemies outnumbered, and don't forget Neald and Grady.  When the BLers get crushed it is possible that all the BL kings and queens die too.

[Dark Justice]

I dont really think there is gonna be a big battle between the two sides. Why would the borderlanders start messing up south of their borders? I thought they were just there so Rand would finally notice them...

[Graendals favourite]

This is a kind of disjointed thought, but I was wondering about the axe and hammer thing, thinking if it could be view from a different perspective. Probably because of the reread at TOR.

 

It is somehow slated so obvious that Perrin should and will choose the hammer over the axe, that it has me wondering. Certainly the matter coincides nicely with his wolf sense, since then the hammer and axe can be an allegory to either running with the wolves completely and only using his wolfishness to kill, or use it to kill or help others. However, I thought another interpretation is possible.

 

Perhaps neither axe not hammer is really a good thing. That he should preferable not need either. An axe cuts away, a hammer bludgeons. Since he would only use the axe against his enemies, to cut them away, would that not be a better thing for him to have. Instead of bludgeoning everyone with his hammer, whether he intends to build or destroy. In a smithy the hammer is good, but it really does not give the iron it forges any options of its own. So I am thinking, maybe it would be better after all to keep the axe as a weapon, and leave the hammmer in the smithy.

 

I don't know if this makes full sense, but there it is.

[Shard]

I think the choice of Hammer over Axe is supposed to be a metaphor for him wanting to create and build things over destroying them. He seemed quite content when he was in Two Rivers last, seeing it being built up.