Axe vs. Hammer

[Builder]

Besides, he has already chosen the Hammer so it's no use of complaining  :)

[Kaznen]

I dont really think there is gonna be a big battle between the two sides. Why would the borderlanders start messing up south of their borders? I thought they were just there so Rand would finally notice them...

 

Because rumors say he killed the Queen of Andor and King of Illian, Carihien and Andor are crawling with his aiel, he has started to gather an army of men who can channel and one of them is an escaped criminal who tore up Saldaea, the choas in Arad Domon and Taraborn are caused by his dragonsworn, and the dragonsworn in Altara, Gheledan, and Murandy are causing major trouble.

 

Except for the borderlands, Randland is in upheavel because of Rand, and what is the twoer doing about it?  Nothing.  So instead of watching the calm blight that is retreated while the rest of the world goes to pot they decided to do something about it.

 

They even said in PoD that Rand has a lot to anser for.  If they just wanted to get his attention they would have sent evoys to meet with him.

[Builder]

They also said that they wanted to have an alliance, or at least they said it indirectly I think.

[Kaznen]

Why go to the expense of bringing a large army for proposing an alliance.  The army will have to turn around and march straight back to the blight.

[RobertAlexWillis]

The large army is "just in case".  They want things to go down peacefully with Rand, but they want to be ready if they have to fight.  Actually, their attitude is similar to Rand's own; he'll have peace if he can get it, but he'll unite the nations, one way or the other.  The Borderlanders just view the fight along the Blight as their own, so they want to make sure Rand's plans square with their own, and if not, they're willing to fight.

 

Unfortunately, the willingness to fight makes a fight more likely.  Rand doesn't take well to challenges.  Add to that the 13 Aes Sedai, very possibly Black Ajah, and you have a recipe for disaster; a situation which has Demandred's manipulative fingerprints all over it, if you ask me.  I don't think he's with the Borderlanders, mind you, I think he just set the situation up.

 

Perrin may well be the solution, here.  We know he'll have to save Rand's biscuits one more time, he's connected to a Borderlander royal house, and he has a nose for trouble.

[MikeRiley]

They might have unified the nations as one and are going to pass control to him. They are mad that he avoided them for so long, him controlling the borderlands will force him to pay special attention there.

 

The Aes Sedai could have gathered there for the encounter with Rand completely on their own. They know he'll have to come to the borderlanders eventually.

[RobertAlexWillis]

They might have unified the nations as one and are going to pass control to him.

 

They don't need an army if that is their only intention ...

 

They are mad that he avoided them for so long, him controlling the borderlands will force him to pay special attention there.

 

Again, bringing 200,000 men away from their posts is pretty extreme, for just that.  They would not have brought their armies if they were not at least willing to fight.

 

The Aes Sedai could have gathered there for the encounter with Rand completely on their own. They know he'll have to come to the borderlanders eventually.

 

Not only could they have done that on their own, we know they did it independently of the Borderland rulers.  The Borderland rulers were not terribly happy when they realized that there were 13 Aes Sedai in the camp.  But none of that lowers the likelihood of disaster.

[Caedn of the Taardad]

 

The Aes Sedai could have gathered there for the encounter with Rand completely on their own. They know he'll have to come to the borderlanders eventually.

 

Not only could they have done that on their own, we know they did it independently of the Borderland rulers.  The Borderland rulers were not terribly happy when they realized that there were 13 Aes Sedai in the camp.  But none of that lowers the likelihood of disaster.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember one of the Border Land rulers making a comment along the lines of "13 Aes Sedai could come in handy" and then either "when the time came" or "if it whent wrong".  Not too clear on the second part, but I seem to remember something along the lines of the first part...  If I only had my books with me :-[...

[MikeRiley]

The borderlander rulers didn't bring them along, the Aes Sedai latched on to the various rulers and tagged along themselves. When the rulers were saying they could be useful, it was an afterthought after finding out there were Aes Sedai everywhere when they planned that to be a secret meeting.

[Builder]

Why do Aes Sedai always have to mix themselves up in things they're not supposed to get mixed up with?

[Shard]

Yeah the more one thinks about it the more fishy it is that 13 Aes Sedai just happened to gather with the army. Sure it might be coincidence but I don't think so.

[Muad Cheade]

The main reason the Borderlanders came south is that they feel as if there's no point guarding against the Blight if everything behind them is going to pot especially with the Dragon Reborn spreading chaos. They mean to get his attention regardless of whether they have to due it through use of arms.

 

I'm not sure Rand will take kindly to 200,000 well trained and arms soldiers looking for him along with 13 Aes Sedai but his prior relationship with Agelmar Jagad should help. I find it unlikely that all the Aes Sedai with the Borderlanders are Black Ajah. However, if you have a sack of apples, a few are likely to be bad.

 

Back on topic, the significance of Perrin giving up his axe for the hammer, is not only a signal of Tarmon Gai'don's coming, but also the fact that he's committing to being only a protector and builder. The axe is only good for one thing: killing. The hammer can be used to kill, but it's primary use is to provide, create, and build.

[Lord Nik]

Here is why perrin through away his hammer.

 

Because he turned emo and hypocritical.

 

How so?

 

Well he threw away his Axe because all he used it for was killing people.

 

which is EXACTLY what he uses his hammer for.

 

so when he chops off someones head with an axe that is BAD.

 

And when he reduces someones head to a crushed melon with his hammer its OK.

 

His reasoning is flawed and it doesnt make sense.

-------

Lots of people say it's because the hammer can be used to create things. So... It's still being used as a weapon of war thus REDUCING it a weapon of war. In the end if you killed someone with a hammer or a axe you still killed someone. I am not going on an anti war campaign I just don't see why he has a problem with his axe.

 

 

 

[Eleint]

No, it's not really hypocritical.

 

He used the axe in a very bad way, and it stuck with him.  It's a symbol of what he let himself do.  The hammer /can/ be used for other things and harkens back to a previous life.  It's a symbol of what he -wants-.

 

If he's said something like 'axes are weapons and a hammer isn't' (Like how the Aiel twisted their not-use-swords thing into letting them use spears) then you'd be right.  But he didn't.

[Muad Cheade]

Here is why perrin through away his hammer.

 

Because he turned emo and hypocritical.

 

How so?

 

Well he threw away his Axe because all he used it for was killing people.

 

which is EXACTLY what he uses his hammer for.

 

so when he chops off someones head with an axe that is BAD.

 

And when he reduces someones head to a crushed melon with his hammer its OK.

 

His reasoning is flawed and it doesnt make sense.

-------

Lots of people say it's because the hammer can be used to create things. So... It's still being used as a weapon of war thus REDUCING it a weapon of war. In the end if you killed someone with a hammer or a axe you still killed someone. I am not going on an anti war campaign I just don't see why he has a problem with his axe.

 

 

 

 

It's like what Elient said. Obviously, you didn't read atleast the last two sentences of my post (The one before yours).

[Shard]

Here is why perrin through away his hammer.

 

Because he turned emo and hypocritical.

 

How so?

 

Well he threw away his Axe because all he used it for was killing people.

 

which is EXACTLY what he uses his hammer for.

 

so when he chops off someones head with an axe that is BAD.

 

And when he reduces someones head to a crushed melon with his hammer its OK.

 

His reasoning is flawed and it doesnt make sense.

-------

Lots of people say it's because the hammer can be used to create things. So... It's still being used as a weapon of war thus REDUCING it a weapon of war. In the end if you killed someone with a hammer or a axe you still killed someone. I am not going on an anti war campaign I just don't see why he has a problem with his axe.

 

 

He threw the Axe away because he was using it to TORTURE someone and was getting used to doing it and found that he didn't like that. It made perfect sense to me  :P

[Lord Nik]

Doesnt matter if the hammer can be used to make daisies and sunshine he still is using the hammer to kill people.

 

Who cares what you use can be used as something else when killing people. Thats like riding into battle with a rolling pin so you can bake after...

 

Everyone - "Why did you throw away your weapon?"

 

Perrin - *Because It's only purpose is to kill. I need something more.*

 

Everyone - "Why a rolling pin."

 

Perrin - *Because I can make cookies with it.*

 

Everyone - ...

[RobertAlexWillis]

Certain symbols have specific meanings to people.

 

Perrin switching to his hammer was not a symbol of swearing off fighting altogether.  For Perrin, the hammer is both a weapon and a tool for building.  Whereas, for Perrin, the war ax was used only for killing.  It was not an ax that would be used for chopping down trees to build a house; it was only a weapon of war.  It represented killing without context.

 

Killing someone can be necessary , but it needs to be in its place, to have a context of the possibility of something greater.  For Perrin, the hammer has that context; it reminds him that, to be good, his fighting must have a purpose.  It is something to be done as a necessity, not for enjoyment, or even just out of callous disregard.

 

Someone killed with the hammer is no less dead than someone killed with the ax.  Perrin is more than aware of that.  But the hammer, especially for him (since he thinks of himself as a blacksmith) represents more.  It doesn't deny the necessity for killing, it just puts killing in the context of a purpose.  It makes killing part of a bigger picture, rather than the only thing in the picture.  For Perrin, that was what the ax symbolized; not just the killing, but the endless, purposeless killing. 

[Shard]

Exactly, it's the same way with the Aiel and the whole reason why they don't touch swords. Hammers can be used for something other then killing and Spears can be used other then killing a human. There is very little else a Axe or sword can be used for other then killing people. To Perrin the Axe represents death and that's all it matters in the end, the way Perrin sees the axe. He was seeing it as something too easy to use for death and torture.

[Lord Nik]

I just seems like such a silly reason to throw away the axe. Yes it has lots of pretty symbols using something to create to destroy and it reminds him of blah blah blah.

 

But he uses the hammer to kill. The Axe was made for killing. Im just going in circles and I understand what you guys mean so I'll just leave it at "I wished he kept the Axe"

 

 

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yes it has lots of pretty symbols using something to create to destroy and it reminds him of blah blah blah.

 

LOL ... all of psychology and the sociology of symbolic interactionism have just been reduced to "blah blah blah".

 

Dr. Brennan would be proud.

[Lord Nik]

Yes it has lots of pretty symbols using something to create to destroy and it reminds him of blah blah blah.

 

LOL ... all of psychology and the sociology of symbolic interactionism have just been reduced to "blah blah blah".

 

Dr. Brennan would be proud.

 

Thank you.

It does sum it up nicely doesnt it