Taint Cleansing

[mb]

We know Rand used Mashadar to cleanse the taint.  This thread is to discuss other methods Rand might have used.

 

Methods I thought of::

-Open the Tower of Ghenjei then dispose the Taint into the world of the Aelfinn & Eelfinn.

-Do a Gateway to another world or to another dimension then dispose the Taint there.

-If the Eelfinn doorway still existed, he might have entered it and wished for the Taint to be cleansed.

-Turn the Taint into some kind of object then balefire the object.

-Same method he used but after having the rest of the captured Aes Sedia come along.

The last 3 would probably have the least problems with them, and the doorway method requiring the least effort.

 

[Tyrell]

Balefiring something which has had such a profound effect on the last few thousand years would destroy the world.

[Jethro]

Rand did not use Mashadar to Cleanse the Taint.

 

He created some sort of funnel and forced Saidin through it. Pure Saidin came out of one side and the Taint came from the other, which was placed over Shadar Logoth. Mashadars involvement was that it was destroyed-along with the entire city-when the Taint formed a black dome and collapsed. All that is left is a massive crater.

 

Several times Rand had noted that the two wounds in his side-Taint and Shadar Logoth-seemed to oppose one another, and it was also pointed out by Damer Flynn that the two evils concentrated on one another rather than infecting Rand. I think Rand had the idea that there would be some collateral damage after the ritual, so why not place it right in the middle of Shadar Logoth, where lies an evil that could potentially be canceled out by the Taint? For one thing it could potentially destroy Shadar Logoth itself, and for another the environment itself is as hostile towards the Shadow as the Light, meaning any attacking Chosen would have to be as cautious as Rand and his chums.

[Luckers]

Well, thats not entirely accurate either--Rand didn't use saidar like a funnel, he used it like a strainer. Using the natural antipathy between the two he effectively strained the Taint out of saidin--much like twisting a cloth to get water out. As saidar constricted around saidin it forced in on itself in order to avoid touching saidar, and thus the taint was forced out of it. It is because saidar was applying the presure that the female Choedan Kal melted even though far more saidin was used than saidar.

 

From there though Jethro is right--it is the evil in Shadar Logoth that cancelled out the taint, not specifically Mashadar or anything done by Mashadar. The dome seen was the two evils mixing in their pure forms.

 

-Open the Tower of Ghenjei then dispose the Taint into the world of the Aelfinn & Eelfinn.

 

What would have contained the Taint? Who knows if dimensional barriers would hold against something as ephemeral as the taint?

 

-Do a Gateway to another world or to another dimension then dispose the Taint there.

 

Same as above.

 

-If the Eelfinn doorway still existed, he might have entered it and wished for the Taint to be cleansed.

 

That would be beyond the Eelfinn's power.

 

-Turn the Taint into some kind of object then balefire the object.

 

That much balefire would unravel the pattern.

 

-Same method he used but after having the rest of the captured Aes Sedia come along.

 

How would that help? Do you mean with the fighting of the Forsaken? Your probably right, though i don't think Rand paused to actually think that through. That was Cadsuane's ballgame, and she is the only reason his plan succeeded.

 

[Mr Ares]

-Open the Tower of Ghenjei then dispose the Taint into the world of the Aelfinn & Eelfinn.

Bearing in mind the destruction of Shadar Logoth, there is the possibility for such destruction to be wrought on an inhabited world. Genocide.

-Do a Gateway to another world or to another dimension then dispose the Taint there.

If inhabited, then genocide again. The point of using SL was that the Taint had to go somewhere, so it was put where it could be destroyed by an equal and opposite evil. By setting it on the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn, you could be condemning two races to death with no guarantee of a similar destruction.

[Jethro]

Also, the Cleansing would have taken too long for those locations to prove useful enough. Rand knew Shadar Logoth was as dangerous to any Forsaken as himself, plus there ares area where you can see for miles. A defense would be easier to organise out in the open.

[Sab]

If the Eelfinn doorway still existed, he might have entered it and wished for the Taint to be cleansed

 

You would risk the rules there as with the other door are the same, with  questions about the shadow can have bad effects.  He might of got a nasty surprise had he entered and even brought up the taint.

[Solarian]

I don't know why everyone is saying that the balefire option would destroy the Pattern - I don't think Rand would be attempting to remove its effects from all of history, just the taint, so he would the minimum amount of balefire necessary to destroy it, thus keeping the timeline changes to a minimum.

 

He is not trying to remove the Taint's past effect on history, but its present effect on Saidin.

[ROB_88]

but considering how big the Taint is, it would require a strong balefire for it, just a little wouldn't do anything, and then it removes the past effect by default.

 

plus, the Taint isn't actually a physical thing and probably can't be BF'ed anyway

[mb]

Another method I though of::

-Create cuendillar that is big enough and trap the Taint in there.

 

[Gentled Ben]

Yeah, because the cuendillar seals on the Dark One's prison have held up so well...

[Mr Ares]

-Create cuendillar that is big enough and trap the Taint in there.

Which does not get rid of the problem. It just seals it away for a while. Rand's way, the way seen in the books, destroys the taint. It doesn't leave it as somebody elses problem. Giving to the Finns is making it somebody elses problem. Another world or dimension likewise. Expecting the Eelfinn to do something abot it via "wishes" as well. Which leaves turning it into an object (is that possible?) and then unleashing a weapon known for its ability to damage the Pattern, and hoping the Pattern doesn't get damaged. The only other method you've suggested, which actually deals with the problem in a way unlikely to result in the destruction of everything is:

-Same method he used but after having the rest of the captured Aes Sedia come along.

Doing exactly what they did. So the only viable solution which actually solves the problem thus far presented is to do exactly what he did. Why do we need a thread for this?

[Jethro]

I personally think the way Rand and co did it was brilliant. Cadsuane knew exactly what she was doing defense-wise, Rand knew to let her get on with it. Everything about that scene was brilliant in my opinion; it is in my top 3 scenes along with the docks and Dumais Wells.

[mb]

Another possibility:

-Dispose the Taint at the Dark One's prison (though preferably after evacuating non-channeling people [and non-Warders] from the area).

 

[Dark Justice]

his prison is the pattern, so I dont think thats such a great idea.

[agaga]

Another possibility:

-Dispose the Taint at the Dark One's prison (though preferably after evacuating non-channeling people [and non-Warders] from the area).

 

 

I doubt many people would enjoy going to the pit of dhoom just to try and clense the taint. I agree with Jethro the way they pulled it off was well thought out and it worked out just as well.

[brainpower4]

In tGH, rand could feel the taint even in the alternate history world when he used the portal stone. That implies that the taint is over the entire pattern, not just the specific world we are looking at.

[CUBAREY]

That implies that the taint is over the entire pattern, not just the specific world we are looking at.

 

Actually only that during his travels within the Portal Rand only visited those world's in which the male half of the Power was tainted. As can reasonably be inferred by Mat's reaction to the Portal, all their travels were to worlds where the DO would be triumphant. There is not enough information provided determine why this is so or what it means.

[Mr Ares]

-Dispose the Taint at the Dark One's prison (though preferably after evacuating non-channeling people [and non-Warders] from the area).

He is imprisoned outside the Pattern. How do you propose to manage that?

[agaga]

That implies that the taint is over the entire pattern, not just the specific world we are looking at.

 

Actually only that during his travels within the Portal Rand only visited those world's in which the male half of the Power was tainted. As can reasonably be inferred by Mat's reaction to the Portal, all their travels were to worlds where the DO would be triumphant. There is not enough information provided determine why this is so or what it means.

 

No I'm pretty sure (can't find the quote right now) but I'm pretty sure R.J said that a couple things are the same no matter which world you're in

First that the DO is imprisoned in all of them till he breaks free in one of them then he's free in all of them

 

Second the taint effects all worldss

 

I think there was another one but can't remembner

[Matrim DeLaneous]

Another possibility:

-Dispose the Taint at the Dark One's prison (though preferably after evacuating non-channeling people [and non-Warders] from the area).

 

But wasn't the opposing nature of the evil at SL necessary to contain & centralize / neutralize the Taint?

[Matrim DeLaneous]

-If the Eelfinn doorway still existed, he might have entered it and wished for the Taint to be cleansed.

 

That would be beyond the Eelfinn's power.

 

Also, isn't there a prohibition against any questions or wishes which relate to the Shadow?

[Kaznen]

Another possibility:

-Dispose the Taint at the Dark One's prison (though preferably after evacuating non-channeling people [and non-Warders] from the area).

 

By neutralizing it at SL they weakened the DO. Doing so at the DO's "prison," the center of his power were people only channel with his permission, they would just be giving back his power.

[agaga]

-If the Eelfinn doorway still existed, he might have entered it and wished for the Taint to be cleansed.

 

That would be beyond the Eelfinn's power.

 

Also, isn't there a prohibition against any questions or wishes which relate to the Shadow?

 

Yes moraine says it's extremely dangerous to ask any questions touching the shadow or any silly questions both are punished severely. That then begs the question how did rand get away with asking about the LB???

[Orange Fescue]

-If the Eelfinn doorway still existed, he might have entered it and wished for the Taint to be cleansed.

 

That would be beyond the Eelfinn's power.

 

Also, isn't there a prohibition against any questions or wishes which relate to the Shadow?

It's not a prohibition, it's a warning Moiraine gives about the doorway in Tear that questions relating to ("touching on"?) the Shadow have dire consequences. There is no warning about the other doorway because no one knew it was there except the Wise Ones and Clan Chiefs and they don't talk about what goes on in Ruidean.

 

My theory has always been that Meirin/Lanfear went through the doorway in the AoL and asked how to find a source of Power that wasn't divided by gender so men and women could use it equally. She directed her research based on their answer, drilled the Bore, found the DO's prison, found the True Power as promised, and released the Shadow on an unsuspecting world. Quite dire if that's the way it happened and is what Moiraine was referencing, even if the Aes Sedai no longer remember why they should avoid asking questions related to the Shadow. They seem to have forgotten why they do a lot of what they do.