Setelle Anan

[lordofsoup]

probably spelled the name wrong

 

Who is she? 

 

We know she was at the White Tower as a novice or Accepted at one point, but did she ever reach Aes Sedai? 

 

She knows Caddy, so she probably was there a long time ago as Caddy tends to disappear

[Nightstrike]

She was Aes Sedai, her name was/is Martine Janata. She was studying ter'angreal. One day, while studying one, she burnt herself out. She went from the Tower and made it to Ebou Dar. Her future husband found her exhausted and starved. He helped her, they married and she became an inn keeper (The Wandering Woman).

 

 

Encyclopaediea WoT is great to search for characters and so on!

 

http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/

 

 

 

[Nightstrike]

There also more stuff to read about "what might be her importance"...

 

http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=111

[Darth_Andrea]

It wasn't till near the end of book 11 if I remember correctly that Mat figured out that she had been Aes Sedai. So maybe at some point in book 12 he will remember to mention to her that Stilling can be healed.

 

 

 

 

Darth_Andrea       

 

[Luckers]

Technically she was burned out--though thats healable too.

 

But Mat isn't aware of that.

[Tyrell]

When did we learn about that one? I seem to remember some debate in the past as to whether or not burning out can be healed just as well as severing.

 

[Jethro]

She can still see flows of Saidar cant she? I think thats a hint that its Healable but not 100% sure

[Luckers]

She cannot see flows of the power--she makes a comment to Mat about Edesina using flows of air, but it was just a guess based on Edesina's gasp--which she says at the time. Neither stilled nor burned out people can see flows of the power.

 

We know burning out is healable for a couple of reasons--the first being in Sashelle, Ronaille and Irgaine. In the books characters refer to them as having been stilled by Rand--and in the sense that he intentionally did something that caused them to be severed from the source they were indeed stilled by Rand. However, that being said, functionally he did not still them by the conventional method--there was no razor sharp cutting web, as described by Nynaeve, instead what he did was crushed weaves they were maintaining, and as a result of the strain that placed on them, their abilities were burned out of them.

 

It is more or less exactly what occurs with ter'angreal--specifically the Aes Sedai weaves something which an external source places stress upon leading to an overstraining of their ability. In any case, for the purpose of the discussion over whether burning out can be healed the situation with Sashelle, Irgaine and Ronaille is telling--the damage done to them was not the clean cut of stilling, it was the searing removal of burning out--yet they were healed.

 

The next piece of evidence is in Cyndane. In falling through the doorway ter'angreal both Lanfear and Moiraine were burned out--the full specific arguments are detailed elsewhere, so look them up if your not aware of it, but in the reality of Moiraine's bond being snapped immediately and Cyndane appearing at a weaker strength we can deduce that Lanfear was burned out, and upon transmigration healed by a woman (a rebel Aes Sedai).

 

The final piece of evidence is in Egwene stating that novices no longer had to fear burning themselves out since Nynaeve's discovering, and that as such it was hard to get them to move slowly.

 

Endgame is though that burning out can be healed.

 

 

[Jethro]

I hope we learn why Cyndane isnt as strong as she was. I remember reading that a channelers strength boils down to body and soul, not just soul, maybe its that. But I always did think Cyndane was burnt out as opposed to severed.

[Darth_Andrea]

I hope we learn why Cyndane isnt as strong as she was. I remember reading that a channelers strength boils down to body and soul, not just soul, maybe its that. But I always did think Cyndane was burnt out as opposed to severed.

 

 

It's been said in the past and I don't know the actually source for it, but that Lanfear had her ability increased by the Eelfinn I think. I have seen people reference that she was held by them for a period of time in the AOL. Again I don't know the source for that I don't have the big white book and haven't read books 7, 8, 9, or 10 yet but I have skipped ahead to 11 :D. I'm getting the audio books as I can find them and their hard to get and not cheap. Damned resellers want upwards of $200 for some of them. I'm sure Luckers or someone can post the actual reference for that though. :D

 

But if that is the case when she got a new body her ability's would have been reduced at least to what it should have been naturally before what ever the Eelfinn did to her.

 

 

 

 

Darth_Andrea          

[Tyrell]

That's all theoryland, possibly crackpotland. At this point there is nothing to suggest that Lanfear ever entered the doorway before or that she wished to be as beautiful and as powerful as it was possible to be (as per the theory). Nor is there any evidence to suggest that the 'finn would just take her wishes back off of her and kick her out as Cyndane (her original appearance and strength, again as per the theory).

 

Thats my understanding of the theory, I don't agree with it so if I misrepresented it then apologies

[Majsju]

The most simple explanation to Cyndanes decreased strength is that she was Healed by a woman, something we know for a fact causes exactly that.

[Elwinn Taron]

I don't recall if Mat knows about Logain being Healed or not--he does know about the tale of him being set up by the Red Ajah. He does know that Nynaeve Healed Siuan ane Leane, though.  His thoughts about it at the time were that Nynaeve already had too high an opinion of herself, and that after doing what couldn't be done her head would be swollen up like a melon (or something to that effect.)  I don't think of it occurring to him to tell Setelle, but if she's there when he rescues Moiraine, and tells her that Nynaeve can Heal her......Although, I hope they are actually Healed by Damer Flynn. ;)

[Mr Ares]

I hope we learn why Cyndane isnt as strong as she was. I remember reading that a channelers strength boils down to body and soul, not just soul, maybe its that. But I always did think Cyndane was burnt out as opposed to severed.

Strictly speaking, we know there are soul and genetic components to channeling, but we don't know that the body affects strength, and reason to think it doesn't given that all the other Chosen with new bodies are the exact same strength. Also, I'm pretty sure severing is a term that covers burning out - they only had the one term in the AoL, without the distinctions of the present between stilling, gentling and burning out.

 

I have seen people reference that she was held by them for a period of time in the AOL.

Nothing in the books to indicate any visits to the Finns outside of the one in FoH.

[Thor]

The most simple explanation to Cyndanes decreased strength is that she was Healed by a woman, something we know for a fact causes exactly that.

 

The hole with that theory is that when Siuna/Leanne lost strength, they became almost only 30% of their original strength (see when Siuan tried to life Garreth Brynne).  But Lanfear clearly did not lose 70% of her original strength since she is still stronger than Graendal.  We know Graendal (albeit with angreal) is not weak from her encounter with Verin's circle and Verin even had the initiative first strike.

[Darth_Andrea]

It could be very likely that her reduced strength is simply a effect of the new body. The link to the source is from the soul something that can't be broken I wouldn't think while the body can be cut off the soul can't be. But the Body is what has the strength or Well if you will that the uses to hold on to the power when it's drawn. If the body has a shallower Well then the strength is reduced. That's perhaps the issue here, weaker body than Lanfear had originally.

 

 

 

Darth_Andrea       

 

[Luckers]

Actually it couldn't--the other three maintain their exact strength accross the transmigrational process--including Aran'gar accross genders.

 

Whatever role the body plays on strength it does not have that effect with transmigration.

[Mr Ares]

The hole with that theory is that when Siuna/Leanne lost strength, they became almost only 30% of their original strength (see when Siuan tried to life Garreth Brynne). But Lanfear clearly did not lose 70% of her original strength since she is still stronger than Graendal.

And there are several Sisters below Siuan and Leane in strength, which would be unlikely if they had lost as much strength as you say. Does ability to lift with the Power increase in a linear fashion alongside increase in strength? We have nothing to say whether or not the amount lost is a fixed amount, fixed percentage or random, or something else. So Cyndane cannot be ruled out on those grounds.

[Thor]

Could you name these "several sisters" please, because I cannot really recall several.

[Mr Ares]

Could you name these "several sisters" please, because I cannot really recall several.

Daigian, Nisain, Reiko, Shana, maybe some others.

 

[Nightstrike]

The hole with that theory is that when Siuna/Leanne lost strength, they became almost only 30% of their original strength (see when Siuan tried to life Garreth Brynne). But Lanfear clearly did not lose 70% of her original strength since she is still stronger than Graendal.

And there are several Sisters below Siuan and Leane in strength, which would be unlikely if they had lost as much strength as you say. Does ability to lift with the Power increase in a linear fashion alongside increase in strength? We have nothing to say whether or not the amount lost is a fixed amount, fixed percentage or random, or something else. So Cyndane cannot be ruled out on those grounds.

 

"Leane is not as strong as she was, and neither is Siuan. Most women in Salidar can channel more than either of them, now. Even some of the Accepted can. Not even counting Elayne or Nynaeve. If Siuan and Leane were Healed to half or two thirds of their original strength, most Aes Sedai in Salidar would be as strong, and a good many stronger. Delana is much stronger than Siuan now, whereas before the margin had gone the other way." (LoC, To Heal Again). That makes me think Siuan could well be around the same strength as around 1/3 of them women in Salidar and probably more than 1/3 of Siuan's original strength, but still far below 50% (Siuan weighs less than Gareth, probably, but did she state anything about her weaker self lifting her own weights? - in that case I might have to reconsider).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Luckers]

That makes me think Siuan could well be around the same strength as around 1/3 of them women in Salidar and probably more than 1/3 of Siuan's original strength, but still far below 50% (Siuan weighs less than Gareth, probably, but did she state anything about her weaker self lifting her own weights? - in that case I might have to reconsider).

 

Functionally she has to be--we know the Aes Sedai cut off strength, which Siuan stood high upon--if she were only 1/3 her original strength she would have had to have been above 90--which is quite clearly impossible.

 

As for your implcations about her ability to lift things, we know that does not relate exactly to strength, but rather increases exponentially (a small increase in strength results in a dramatic increase in the weight one can lift--though only above a certain level. Same seems to go for gateways).

 

 

[pxnsolid]

I would have to say that her lack of strength is in some way related to her getting back out. When Matt didnt name a price for his wishes, they granted them, and hung him, " wise to ask no leave taking, but foolish to not set a price. We will set a price." not an exact quote, from memory, but they require something in trade. " we will give you back some of your strength and a not the most beautiful body in the world, just a beautiful one" i doubt she was healed, as she is shown to have too much strength in comparison as mentioned above. maybe burntout, but returned to nearly her pre burned state. as for the description of stilling, a clean cutting is the female version. rand says he stilled them, and he has alot of knowledge thanks to LTT. just because the description is different, may be in the form of a man severing as opposed to a womans.

[Nightstrike]

As for your implcations about her ability to lift things, we know that does not relate exactly to strength, but rather increases exponentially (a small increase in strength results in a dramatic increase in the weight one can lift--though only above a certain level. Same seems to go for gateways).

It has been pointed out on SEVERAL occasions in the series that gateways and strength are closely connected. Not even ONCE have we encountered someone remarking on how gateways sizes increases/decreases exponentially with strength. It seems to me that you have added that yourself, just so that you can rely on the scale you believe in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr Ares]

i doubt she was healed, as she is shown to have too much strength in comparison as mentioned above.

How much should she have?

maybe burntout, but returned to nearly her pre burned state.

You mean, like she was Healed? And we know of one and only one thing that would explain this drop in strength - a woman Healed from severing by another woman.

he has alot of knowledge thanks to LTT.

He doesn't know everything LTT knows, and he knew less then.