Forsaken Power Rankings

[Mr Ares]

We will never know how the womans full potential comapares to a mans.

Except that it is slightly lower than the maximum male strength.

Ya I knew that but I just don't know how great a margin separates womens and mens potential. But I guess in a comparison of remotely close power strength it is experience that would count in a battle.

Bear in mind women are supposed to be more deft in their weavings, so they can accomplish with finesse what would take a man force to accomplish, so the strength difference balances out. Neither represents an advantage over the other. And it would be knowledge and experience and luck that told in a battle.

[General Cauthon]

For one thing, do we really even need Lanfear to say it?  I mean, if you look at Asmo's track record, he's been sort of a loser from day 1 - he's nothing more than a frustrated artist/composer who can't seem to make anything work in his favor.  Even among the Forsaken, he has no real skill in battle or in the subtle manipulations that are such a staple of the Forsaken.

 

We must not forget that Asmo survived the War of Power as one of the Chosen. Around 15 Chosen were killed during the War of Power, and there was probably 100 000 darkfriend channelers that weren't "Chosen".

If he was a loser, he would never have become one of the Chosen, and since none of the other Chosen managed to kill him during the War of Power, he must have some skills up his sleeve.....

 

After all, he was the only one of the Chosen to figure out where the access keys to the Choedan Kal was. If Rand hadn't prevented it, Asmo would have been Nae'blis now, and all the other Chosen dead, and the DO released from his prison....

 

It's dangerous to underestimate a character, just because Rand kicks their ass, remember that Ishy lost 3 times against Rand, yet everyone agrees that he's the best amongst the Chosen...

 

The same goes for Moggy, remember that she has faced Nynaeve 4 times, yet still lives. The other Chosen Nynaeve has met hasn't been that lucky...

Aginor & Balthamel didn't live to see another day

Rahvin got burned....

Semirhage was captured after just a few minutes

 

I know that Nynaeve didn't do this on her own, but we haven't seen Nynaeve go one-on-one against anyone but Moggy, for all we know, Nynaeve could wipe the floor with most of the Chosen.

 

Does anyone remember Nynaeve's test for Accepted? Didn't she fight Aginor, and was winning when she had to leave? What if Moggy could have done the same?

 

[Mr Ares]

and there was probably 100 000 darkfriend channelers that weren't "Chosen".

No. All Darkfriend channelers during the War of the Power were Chosen. All, from the greatest to the least.

Didn't she fight Aginor, and was winning when she had to leave?

That wasn't real, none of the things she saw were. Aginor is stronger than Nynaeve or Moghedien.

[Thor]

and there was probably 100 000 darkfriend channelers that weren't "Chosen".

No. All Darkfriend channelers during the War of the Power were Chosen. All, from the greatest to the least.

 

 

I disagree with that, there were many who were not Chosen.  They are called Dreadlords.

[Tyrell]

No.

 

Everyone who could channel and took Shai'tan's side during the War of Power were called Chosen/Forsaken.

 

During the Trolloc Wars the darkfriend channelers feared the wrath of the by then legendary Chosen/Forsaken and called themselves Dreadlords instead of Chosen so as not to piss anyone off.

[Thor]

Link sources please, this is getting nowhere.

[Jethro]

Remember some Chosen noting that only 39 (ish) people have ever been granted True Power usage? That makes me think those were the Chosen, and the Dreadlords were simply Darkfriend channelers who hadnt been significant on the Light side, so not widely known for their betrayal

[Tyrell]

If I must Thor, here you go have a source.

 

Question Of The Week:

 

Week 12 Question: In Winters Heart, you mention that back in the Age of Legends, there were several other Forsaken that the Dark One had killed because he suspected they would betray him. What's their story? Were those people ever as high ranking as the 13 survivors, or where they more like high-ranking Dreadlords then actual Forsaken?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: First off, Dreadlords was the name given to men and women who could channel and sided with the Shadow in the Trolloc Wars. Yes, the women were called Dreadlords, too. They might have liked to call themselves "the Chosen," like the Forsaken, but feared to. The real Forsaken might not have appreciated it when they returned, as prophecies of the Shadow foretold would happen. Some of the Dreadlords had authority and responsibility equivalent to that of the Forsaken in the War of the Shadow, however. They ran the Shadow's side of the Trolloc Wars, though without the inherent ability to command the Myrddraal that the Forsaken possess, meaning they had to negotiate with them. Overall command at the beginning was in another's hands.

 

Forsaken was the name given to Aes Sedai who went over to the Shadow in the War of the Shadow at the end of the Age of Legends, though of course, they called themselves the Chosen, and despite the tales of the "current"Age, there were many more than a few of them. Since they occupied all sorts of levels, you might say that many were equivalent to some of the lesser Dreadlords, but it would be incorrect to call them so. At the time, they were all Forsaken—or Chosen—from the greatest to the least.

 

Some of those Forsaken the Dark One killed were every bit as high-ranking as the thirteen who were remembered, and who you might say constituted a large part of the Dark One's General Staff at the time of the sealing. With the Forsaken, where treachery and backstabbing were an acceptable way of getting ahead, the turnover in the upper ranks was fairly high, though Ishamael, Demandred, Lanfear, Graendal, Semirhage, and later Sammael, were always at the top end of the pyramid. They were very skilled at personal survival, politically and physically.

 

In large part the thirteen were remembered because they were trapped at Shayol Ghul, and so their names became part of that story, though it turned out that details of them, stories of them, survived wide-spread knowledge of the tale of the actual sealing itself. Just that they had been sealed away. Other Forsaken were left behind, so to speak, free but in a world that was rapidly sliding down the tube. The men eventually went mad and died from the same taint that killed off the other male Aes Sedai. They had no access to the Dark One's protective filters. The women died, too, though from age or in battle or from natural disasters created by insane male AesSedai or from diseases that could no longer be controlled because civilization itself had been destroyed and access to those who were skilled in Healing was all but gone. And soon after their deaths, their names were forgotten, except for what might possibly be discovered in some ancient manuscript fragment that survived the Breaking. A bleak story of people who deserved no better, and not worth telling in any detail.

[Majsju]

Still, Asmo was a member of the general staff, and you do not reach that far if you are completely useless. Of course, there were other ways to qualify than strength in the OP or skills in battle.

[triadruid]

and there was probably 100 000 darkfriend channelers that weren't "Chosen".

No. All Darkfriend channelers during the War of the Power were Chosen. All, from the greatest to the least.

Not quite right; all Darkfriend Aes Sedai were "Chosen", but not all AoL channelers were Aes Sedai. The week 12 answer above is very clear in its word usage.

[Thor]

The answer above regarding permission to use TP is the best answer imo.

 

There is simply no way you can say that all dreadlords were chosen.  That's like saying everyone in the company is an executive manager or whatever.

[Swigaro]

The answer above regarding permission to use TP is the best answer imo.

 

There is simply no way you can say that all dreadlords were chosen.  That's like saying everyone in the company is an executive manager or whatever.

 

I think you may be missing the point of the quote.  None of the Dreadlords were Chosen.  Chosen/Forsaken are AoL Aes Sedai that defected to the shadow.  Dreadlords were darkfriend channeler's, male and female who fought for the shadow during the Trolloc Wars.  There may have been non-Aes Sedai AoL Channelers who were not Chosen/Forsaken, yet still fought for the shadow, though, there is no explicit evedince for or against this statment.  Regardless, RJ has very clearly stated that Chosen/Forsaken were from the AoL, Dreadlords from the Trolloc Wars.  There were no Dreadlord Forsaken, or Forsaken Dredlords. 

[Tyrell]

Thor, I'm going to go ahead and assume you didn't read the quotation of mine which contains RJ's opinion on the matter of everyone who was a channeler that sided with the shadow in the AoL being a Chosen?

[Luckers]

and there was probably 100 000 darkfriend channelers that weren't "Chosen".

No. All Darkfriend channelers during the War of the Power were Chosen. All, from the greatest to the least.

Not quite right; all Darkfriend Aes Sedai were "Chosen", but not all AoL channelers were Aes Sedai. The week 12 answer above is very clear in its word usage.

 

Actually, thats incorrect--all active AoL channelers were inducted as Aes Sedai, and thus became Chosen/Forsaken if they turned. There were some Age of Legenders with the ability to learn to channel who chose not to, but all who actually proceeded to learn to channel became Aes Sedai.

[Mr Ares]

The answer above regarding permission to use TP is the best answer imo.

 

There is simply no way you can say that all dreadlords were chosen.  That's like saying everyone in the company is an executive manager or whatever.

Forsaken was the name given to Aes Sedai who went over to the Shadow in the War of the Shadow at the end of the Age of Legends' date=' though of course, they called themselves the Chosen, and despite the tales of the "current"Age, there were many more than a few of them. Since they occupied all sorts of levels, you might say that many were equivalent to some of the lesser Dreadlords, but it would be incorrect to call them so. At the time, they were all Forsaken—or Chosen—from the greatest to the least.[/quote']

[triadruid]

Actually, thats incorrect--all active AoL channelers were inducted as Aes Sedai, and thus became Chosen/Forsaken if they turned. There were some Age of Legenders with the ability to learn to channel who chose not to, but all who actually proceeded to learn to channel became Aes Sedai.

That seems extremely unlikely - did the bell curve just not exist in the Age of Legends? Or would someone with the channeling strength equivalent of Morgase Trakand become Aes Sedai back then?

 

We'll likely never know from RJ's mouth, but he's usually very precise in his language, and I'd like to see evidence that "all channelers of any strength" could become Aes Sedai (I know there was a short story once upon a time about someone going for their testing, but I can't find it online).

[Tyrell]

I would say that yes, indeed, if Morgase Trankand wanted to channel back in the day she would be Aes Sedai.

 

Most Aes Sedai didn't channel as their main job, remember, that is a recent third age thing, wherein being "aes sedai" is in and of itself a profession. I mean, there were certainly jobs that involved channeling - see the work of Mierin (later Lanfear) at the Collam Daam - but others were civil servants (Lews Therin), sportsmen (Sammael), investment councilors (Moghedien), scholars (Balthamel). And so on, and they were all Aes Sedai.

[Thor]

And they were all stronger in power than Morgase.  So what's your point?  There has been absolutely no record of a negligibly weak channeler being a Servant in the AoL.  In fact, from the Forsaken's comments, it is clear that they feel the standard that Tar Valon uses as a minimum strength is too poor.

[Tumeric]

Doesn't the label "Chosen" infer that merely proclaiming your allegiance to the DO isn't quite enough to allow you to proclaim yourself as "all dat"?  Or did those who foreswore the Light justify it as being "chosen to answer the call of a higher power"?

 

I would have classified those who the DO permitted access to the TP as those he had chosen, hence the title... and any others would be Lackeys or somesuch...

[Luckers]

Your incorrect Thor. There was no strength limit in the Age of Legends. Any with the ability to channel became Aes Sedai if they progressed with learning. The Forsaken's contempt has to do with there not being Aes Sedai equaling them in strength--as well as them not being trained. There were many Aes Sedai of such weak strength.

 

 

[Nightstrike]

From the Guide:

The people afforded the most status, though  they still had to earn their third name through great individual works, were those whose gifts made them capable of the greatest service: those who could effectively channel the One Power. These men and women were called Aes Sedai, which meant 'Servant of All' in the Old Tongue.

Does "effectively channel" mean that there were those that were considered "uneffective"? Do we have any character saying/thinking anything about this subject in the series?

 

You seem to know what you're talking about, Luckers. Do you have any quotes to back up your case?