How strong is Lanfear?

[Dr Pepper]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed before but i'd like to put it out there anyway.

 

So how strong is Lanfear one power wise? I've read the books and I stil can't put a finger on where she should be in forsaken rankings. For example i've read that she's stronger than all the forsaken except Ishamael. However I read that Rahvin feels he could take her, and also feels that Sammael could take her too.

 

I've also read that Aginor was stronger in the power bar Ishamael also  ???

 

RJ stated that men in general were stronger than women in the OP but how strong is lanfear? Isn't she supposed to be the strongest a female living channeler can be? Seems pretty lame that the strongest female potential is not high enough to match a mans highest potential (LTT and Ishy). I'm all for equality here  8)

 

Is Lanfear second strongest of the Chosen? Or is she behind that of all Male forsaken (perhaps not Asmo)

[Ndshacker]

She was The second most powerful forsaken, but now she is not as she has reduced in power since she has been reincarnated (If i remember correctly)

[Majsju]

Forsakens comments can not be fully trusted, they are after all a bunch of lying liars who lie. And it would be quite hard for a man to know the exact strength of a woman, as well as for a woman to know the exact strength of a man.

So it is hard to put an exact strength for Lanfear. Weaker than Ishy and Rand, yes. Stronger than all other female forsaken, yes. And a close call with Demandred and Aginor.

 

In general, men are stronger than women. To compensate, women are better at making weaves.

 

 

[DemandredFO]

Two things, a.  the Foresaken lie to themselves, and regarding that Aginor thing I believe a third ager said that and they are certain about all sorts of things that aren't true.

[Ndshacker]

"The most powerful of the female Forsaken, possibly the most powerful of all next to Ishamael, was Lanfear, " BWB

 

 

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

theres also the option of her being the most powerful channeler PERIOD.  which coincides with the 'finn theory involving her.  but ya, theres no [non-forsaken] sources stating that she isn't at least the 3rd strongest channeler(below ishamael and rand).

[Jethro]

Lanfear isnt the strongest channeler period, Rand is. I would say for definite that Lanfear is the strongest female Forsaken pre-transmigration. As Cyndane, who can say? One thing I do remember is at the Cleansing she comments in her thoughts that Alivia is as strong as she was before the Finns held her. So Lanfear and Alivia are on par, according to Cyndane

[Thor]

Alivia had an angreal and all sorts of other trinkets with her.  Lanfear pre nerf would have been stronger than an unaided Alivia.

 

Even as Cyndanne I am sure she is still stronger than Alivia.  Alivia is probably closer to Graendal.

[Jethro]

Did she definitely have angreal? I remember she had ter'angreal-one like Mats foxhead medallion-but I didnt think she had an angreal; its not like she needs one, being as strong as she is. Saying that its been a while since I read the Cleansing

[Dr Pepper]

Alivia definitely had an angreal.

[mb]

According to Great Hunt Chapter 7, Lanfear was second strongest Forsaken; Ishamael being the strongest Forsaken.  The whole paragraph::

 

Lanfear. In the Old Tongue, Daughter of the Night. Nowhere was her real name recorded, but that was the name she had taken for herself, unlike most of the Forsaken, who had been named by those they betrayed. Some said she had really been the most powerful of the Forsaken, next to Ishamael, the Betrayer of Hope, but had kept her powers hidden. Too little was left from that time for any scholar to say for certain.

 

[Tel Janin]

Did she definitely have angreal? I remember she had ter'angreal-one like Mats foxhead medallion-but I didnt think she had an angreal; its not like she needs one, being as strong as she is. Saying that its been a while since I read the Cleansing

 

She had Nyn's rings-and-bracelet angreal.  When she put it on she, Nyn and Rand all stared at it because it fit her like it was made for her...just like it fits Nyn like it's made for her.  Hmmm. :)

[pxnsolid]

One thing I do remember is at the Cleansing she comments in her thoughts that Alivia is as strong as she was before the Finns held her.

 

while i dont remember the exact wording, it was her (Lanfear) second shock that Alivia was stronger then she had been pre finn. first shock being the web unraveling before it hit her. from that fact she referenced Alivia must have an angreal because no woman could be stronger then she had been.

[Samudor]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe there is a reference at some point in the later books that Lanfear was as powerful as is possible for a woman. It's also pretty clear that she was easily a match for Rand at the end of Book 5. I'd say she is in the same ballpark with Rand and Morridin, but just weak enough that she has to make up for it with cunning- which is why she's good at cutting weaves.

[pxnsolid]

while she was more then a match for Rand in book 5, she also had a rather strong angreal at her disposal,while the one he had then was not very strong,  which would help. it is stated in a number of places that she is as strong as a female can be. there is also mention of an old novice, one of the newly recruited, that apperentally has the potential to be as strong as it is possible to become. reasonably speaking, Rand is as strong as a man can be. while he did have an angreal, as well as Callandor and the Choden Kal, with no tutoring, and little skill, he was able to defeat a few trained men with brute force alone.

[Luckers]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe there is a reference at some point in the later books that Lanfear was as powerful as is possible for a woman.

 

The inference can be drawn from her comment about Alivia at the cleansing--she thinks, in shock, that Alivia was stronger than she had been and that that was impossible, thus concluding Alivia had an angreal (which she did).

 

Given the way the thought was said, we can conclude she was being truthful with herself. Thus Lanfear was as strong as a woman could be.

 

while she was more then a match for Rand in book 5, she also had a rather strong angreal at her disposal,while the one he had then was not very strong

 

We don't actually have any comparison between the strengths of their angreal. Rand apparently believed that he could have killed Lanfear if he so chose, only he did not want to kill her and held back.

 

 

[pxnsolid]

No thats true we dont have a direct comparison on the strengths but unless Im completely mistaken, Moraine states it as a strong angreal while Rands is stated to be not particularly strong.

[Ndshacker]

But moiraine staetes one not both... Thus removing the validity of the comparison. We cannot assume that rand's judge of strength is the same as Moiraines.

[Luckers]

I might be wrong, but is Rand's ever stated to be weak? I remember Egwene saying that it wasn't strong enough to move the hundreds of Aiel and horses via the Portal Stones, but that doesn't actually imply that it was weak.

[Ndshacker]

I think he compared it as weak to Callandor at one point Whic is why it doesn't really count :D

[camber71]

However strong Lanfear is or was in relation to the male Forsaken, remember that women can link, whereas men cannot. So Lanfear linking with twelve Black Ajah would be stronger than any male Forsaken could be-unless he found women to trust enough to link with as well.

[lordofsoup]

i coulda sworn alviva was far stronger that Nyeanve, so that would put her a notch below Lanfear

 

i also thought that it said somewhere that she was stronger than Lanfear or else very close to her

[Luckers]

Alivia is stronger than Nynaeve--its even stated that she is significantly stronger, which may well put her on par with Lanfear.

 

But not above. As has been stated in this thread, Lanfear is the top strength, and the time when Alivia appeared to be stronger (during the fight with Cyndane) it was because of her angreal--which Cyndane correctly guesses.

[pxnsolid]

We cannot assume that rand's judge of strength is the same as Moiraines.

 

this is true, but while i cant recall where off hand i know that Rand has thought that his angreal doesnt give him much strength. though it could indeed be in comparison to say Callandor or the CK which is obviously not a fair comparison.

[Fryn]

We cannot assume that rand's judge of strength is the same as Moiraines.

 

this is true, but while i cant recall where off hand i know that Rand has thought that his angreal doesnt give him much strength. though it could indeed be in comparison to say Callandor or the CK which is obviously not a fair comparison.

 

Here is a better quote

 

Seven. LTT groaned. I cannot handle seven, not at once. Not seven. Rand thought of the fat-little-man angrel, and the voice faded to murmurs; it still sounded uneasy, though.

 

No three women could block him from the source once hr had taken hold of saidin, not unless they were as strong as Semirhage or Mesaana or...

 

There is another quote in LoC I can't find atm that also references a number closer to 4 or 5 when talking about AS (the first meeting with AS and teh reason why he allows an audience of 5 to see him). So basically without the angrel Rand feels safe with any 3 women against him (as long as they aren't at the same level as semi or mesaana), and there was a mention of 4 - 5 AS level, however he can't hold off 7 without his angrel. So it is almost or is doubling his OP strength. That quote might also help with teh power ranking of other forsaken; if rand thinks he can handle both Mesaana and Semi at once (I think that is what that quote means at least)