Various Issues

[mb]

It has been said that a channeler could not balefire or Heal itself.  What if the channeler looks into a mirror and direct the flows towards the mirror's image?

 

It has been said that flying could not be done with the One Power.  Yet Egwene as flown in Tel'aran'rhiod at times, and Rand fought Ishmael in the sky.  Rand's situation might be explained by each lifting the other, like Nynaeve and Siuan did to each other.  If Egwene's flying is not with the One Power, then how did she do it?

 

Can a warder bond pass to the warder?  Or can a channeler bond itself?  Just theoretically asking.

 

[Hero of Satsuma]

Then the channeler would heal or BF the mirror.

 

Eqwene was flying because that is what she wanted to do.  TAR is completely unrelated to the OP.  She could have imagined a pot of tea, and drank the tea, but in reality she didn't because the tea was imagined.  Same as when Elayne and the other AS went to the tower in TAR and got caught in a nightmare.  The nightmare ended when that all believed that it wasn't real.  Because it wasn't.

 

The question about Rand was answered by RJ.

 

Question: At the end of the Great Hunt when Rand and Ishamael were fighting in the air above Falme, they appeared in the sky over many places and my question is whether this is something done by the one power or something down by the Creator, how did they appear in the sky?

 

Jordan: An effect of the Wheel, really. It wasnt the Creator. The Wheel is more than a simple mechanism. Remember the Wheel can spit out taveren, can spit out Heroes as a self correcting device because the Pattern is drifting from what it is supposed to be. We are not talking about something as simple as a spinning wheel at all, we are talking something more along the lines of the most complex computer you could possibly imagine. There were at that time, two, there were false dragons that had a chance to create a lot of disruption. By the appearance in the sky at that battle, not just in Falme but in other places, those false dragons were taken off the board because there was only room now for one, for one dragon.

 

It was the Wheel, not the OP.

 

If you were the warder, why would you want the bond to pass to yourself?  so you could point a finger and know in what direction you are located, no matter where in the world you are?  I think I understand why you ask this, so that a warder wouldn't go on a suicide mission if his AS was killed.  I suppose it could be possible, but why?  As soon as you hold your own bond, you are technically not a warder anymore.

 

Channelers cannot bond themselves because they can't use the weaves on themselves.  You answered this in your first question.

 

 

[Ndshacker]

I actually wondered about the boat scene, it is said that two people cannot lift each other with th OP, but siun and Nynaeve did just that.

[Arath Faringal]

Actually, they didn't lift eachother off the ground.  Siuan lifted Nynaeve, but Nynaeve only threw Siuan against the wall.  Only one person came off the ground.

[Luckers]

Actually, they didn't lift eachother off the ground.  Siuan lifted Nynaeve, but Nynaeve only threw Siuan against the wall.  Only one person came off the ground.

 

Indeed, and even pinned to the wall Siuan provided a grounded anchor for lifting Nynaeve.

[mb]

Other issues::

 

The miasma in Shadow Rising Chapter 2, how were the effects done?  Perrin's situation could probably be explained by flows of Air.  Mat's and Rand's situations puzzle me.  Can those two things be done by only the Dark One?  Or can a True Power channeler do something similar?  Or can even a Light-sided channeler do something similar?

 

In Great Hunt, Verin knows Rand is the Dragon Reborn.  I take Moiraine told her.  I guess Verin knew of Perrin being a wolfbrother; probably also from Moiraine or perhaps from something she read.  Path of Daggers Prologue tells of Verin doing a form of Compulsion; was it something she came along accidentally at that moment, or had she known how the whole time? If she known, how long did she know?

 

The rebel group of Aes Sedia assume (or assumed) that the White Tower does not know of Tel'aran'rhiod.  Yet Moiraine knew of it, Verin found out about it, and the Black Ajah that escaped with Liandrin discovered it (through the ter'angreal they stole).

 

[Ndshacker]

The rebel aes sedai knew of telaranhoid, but it was allong the same lines as the making of *greal. Just something to be pondered.

[Fryn]

Other issues::

 

In Great Hunt, Verin knows Rand is the Dragon Reborn.  I take Moiraine told her.  I guess Verin knew of Perrin being a wolfbrother; probably also from Moiraine or perhaps from something she read.  Path of Daggers Prologue tells of Verin doing a form of Compulsion; was it something she came along accidentally at that moment, or had she known how the whole time? If she known, how long did she know?

 

 

Verin knew that rand was the DR on her own, and was not told by Morraine. In fact when Verin confronted suian and morraine, Morraine considered defending herself (killing Verin). Verin has known compulsion for quite a while. She talks about how she developed it by talking to all of the girls new to the tower that had inately formed some kind of compulsion weave (most wilders or girls that had formed weaves on their own had some form of compulsion weave, which the tower made sure they forgot). She has potentially used it in the past as well. Verin simply knows more about the DR than just about anyone else in the series, yet it isn't explained why. She immediately knew that all three boys were important, whereas Morraine thought they were less important. IMO she is doing what AS should do and mendle behind the scenes so no one knows what they are up too. Morraine and Cadsuane are too in your face with their meddling.

[Majsju]

Verins knowledge about the importance of Mat and Perrin seems to come from a greater understanding of the prophecies than anyone else. We see her quite early ask Perrin when he will give up his axe for the hammer, something that later is revealed to be in the prophecies. And if she has paid so much attention to the prophecies that she can pick a thing like that from memory, she has probably read quite a bunch of other sources about the Dragon Reborn, TG etc.

 

What happened in TSR was a bubble of evil, and those have nothing to do with neither the OP nor the TP.

[Tyrell]

Yeah, Verin might be a greeny brown, but she's still a brown. She has certainly studied the Prophecies of the Dragon extensively.

[lordofsoup]

IS she a darkfriend, i mean in moraine's letter to Rand just after she killed lanfear, she says somewhere in it that not to trust Alvarin anymore than she does Verin

 

@in one of the prologues, i thing Verin was doing some questionable stuff

[Majsju]

Moiraine names Verin because that is the Aes Sedai who after Moiraine is the closest to Rand.

 

Verins actions speaks for themselves, she is not BA.

[Luckers]

The miasma in Shadow Rising Chapter 2, how were the effects done?  Perrin's situation could probably be explained by flows of Air.  Mat's and Rand's situations puzzle me.  Can those two things be done by only the Dark One?  Or can a True Power channeler do something similar?  Or can even a Light-sided channeler do something similar?

 

That was not a function of channeling, but more a distortion in the fabric of reality. Akin to a nightmare in the Dreamworld.

 

The rebel group of Aes Sedia assume (or assumed) that the White Tower does not know of Tel'aran'rhiod.  Yet Moiraine knew of it, Verin found out about it, and the Black Ajah that escaped with Liandrin discovered it (through the ter'angreal they stole).

 

The White Tower and Aes Sedai in general know of TAR, but its been so long since the Tower had a Dreamer that its largely reguarded as a fascinating, but irrelevent reality. Consider Elaida's comments when Boenin tells her of Egwene's ability and the dream ter'angreal....

[mb]

About the miasma, I was not asking if it was something of channeling or not; I was asking if a channeler could do something similar.

 

About Egwene's flying; if it was a matter of wanting and/or of thought, how come she is the only one that done it in Tel'aran'rhiod?

 

About Tel'aran'rhiod, the rebel Aes Sedai assume that the White Tower could not enter it at will.  Besides the ter'angreal Liandrin's group still have, do the rebel Aes Sedia have the only others?

 

[lordofsoup]

About the miasma, I was not asking if it was something of channeling or not; I was asking if a channeler could do something similar.

 

About Egwene's flying; if it was a matter of wanting and/or of thought, how come she is the only one that done it in Tel'aran'rhiod?

 

About Tel'aran'rhiod, the rebel Aes Sedai assume that the White Tower could not enter it at will.  Besides the ter'angreal Liandrin's group still have, do the rebel Aes Sedia have the only others?

 

 

clearly not there are probably ter'angreal just sitting in nobles' treasure troves and there are ones that would work for men chanelling

[Hero of Satsuma]

About the miasma, I was not asking if it was something of channeling or not; I was asking if a channeler could do something similar.

 

About Egwene's flying; if it was a matter of wanting and/or of thought, how come she is the only one that done it in Tel'aran'rhiod?

 

About Tel'aran'rhiod, the rebel Aes Sedai assume that the White Tower could not enter it at will.  Besides the ter'angreal Liandrin's group still have, do the rebel Aes Sedia have the only others?

 

In Perrin's instance, more than likely, a channeler could have used the OP to control the axe and make it attack Perrin.  Not totally clear if it could be possible to make the King come out of the deck of cards or to make mirror images of Rand come out of the mirror and attack him.

 

It is possible that Egwene was the only one who has thought of flying in TAR, it isn't as though there are a ton of people who can go there at will.  Even among the Aiel there are only a handful of people who can enter TAR without a ter'angreal.  And the AS still think that TAR is connected with the power so are constrained in what they believe can happen in TAR.  They still think that you can't use the power to fly, therefore you can't fly in TAR.

[Hybrid]

Now, now, we all know what really happened in the Perrin/axe incident in TDR.  Perrin's axe attacked Faile "on its own."  It's a nice excuse, but since Perrin was holding the axe for most of the time...  Unfortunately he didn't succeed.  :( ;D

[mb]

Different Issues::

 

It was said that 13 dreadlords channeling through 13 myrddraal could force a channeler to the Dark.  Can these numbers be made less with angreal and/or with sa'angreal?  What would be the method for a non-channeler and/or for a learner that has not yet learned?

Is there a method for forcing someone to the Light?  If so, what is it?

 

When making angreal and sa'angreal, is there a correlation between how much of the One Power a channeler can hold and the amount of the One Power used to make it?  Also, can ones for saidin be made only by saidin channelers; and ones for saidar, only by saidar channelers?

Channeling required ter'angreal, is there a correlation between the amount of the One Power required and the amount of the One Power used to make it?  Also, can ones that require saidin be made only by saidin channelers; and ones that require saidar, only by saidar channelers?

 

With the Third Oath, the only times an Aes Sedia can use the One Power as a weapon is against shadowspawn, when the life of herself (or of another Aes Sedia or of her warder) is threatened.  Yet eavesdropping with the One Power is permitted in almost any case.  This to me makes little sense since gaining knowledge could be considered a weapon.

 

[Luckers]

About the miasma, I was not asking if it was something of channeling or not; I was asking if a channeler could do something similar.

 

A channeler could duplicate some of the effects, not alot, but some. That being said they are not similar in any way--the cause and the method are entirely different. Channelers may create similar effects, but they are in no way related.

 

About Egwene's flying; if it was a matter of wanting and/or of thought, how come she is the only one that done it in Tel'aran'rhiod?

 

She is the only one we've seen do it--due to her youth. The others are older and more mature.  That being said anyone can fly if they so chose in TAR.

 

About Tel'aran'rhiod, the rebel Aes Sedai assume that the White Tower could not enter it at will.  Besides the ter'angreal Liandrin's group still have, do the rebel Aes Sedia have the only others?

 

The rebels never directly consider that reality.  They never assume the White Tower cannot enter TAR--they don't think about it becuase most sisters reguard TAR as a legend, but thats not the same thing, nor des it imply anything

 

What would be the method for a non-channeler and/or for a learner that has not yet learned?

 

There is no way to turn a non-channeler. You could compel him, but not turn him. I dont know abot a channeler that has not touched the source--i doubt it though.

 

With the Third Oath, the only times an Aes Sedia can use the One Power as a weapon is against shadowspawn, when the life of herself (or of another Aes Sedia or of her warder) is threatened.  Yet eavesdropping with the One Power is permitted in almost any case.  This to me makes little sense since gaining knowledge could be considered a weapon.

 

Thats a long shot by any reguard. Yes, knowledge is power, but there is no direct injury done. There is no way the oaths with constrict on this.

[Mr Ares]

Yet eavesdropping with the One Power is permitted in almost any case. This to me makes little sense since gaining knowledge could be considered a weapon.

How? Gaining knowledge, in and of itself, isn't harmful. It's what you do with it. That might be considered a weapon, but that would depend on the Sister. There's no reason why it should be considered a weapon.

[a pale tanned lover]

Yet eavesdropping with the One Power is permitted in almost any case. This to me makes little sense since gaining knowledge could be considered a weapon.

How? Gaining knowledge, in and of itself, isn't harmful. It's what you do with it. That might be considered a weapon, but that would depend on the Sister. There's no reason why it should be considered a weapon.

 

This is true to a degree but is still a weapon because if the sister in question was ever attacked then she has knowledge to use in her defence, just because you don't use what you have learned doesn't make it any less powerful.

[ROB_88]

yes, knowledge is power but power is not the same as a weapon.

just the act of getting knowledge has nothing to do with killing anyone.*

 

if the oaths were used that strict, than the AS wouldn't even be abe to "lie" by telling half-thruths.

 

off course, if the AS in question for some reason think that eavesdropping with the OP was a weapon like you said, then that preticular AS would probably not be able to use it. just like the lie-oath. if they believe it than it is true for them.

but no AS would ever do that connection.

 

* and i believe that the oath is only valid when killing, not just hurting, as we can see when Rand is kidnapped, trapped in the box and beaten with the OP if i remember it right.

 

hell, those oaths are so loose that we even see them make OP weapons in Two Rivers during the fight with the trollocs, even though that oath directly mentions nothing about Shadowspawn.

[Pixiedragon]

* and i believe that the oath is only valid when killing, not just hurting, as we can see when Rand is kidnapped, trapped in the box and beaten with the OP if i remember it right.

Not exactly I think, though I am unable to find the exact quote.

After a while only a few Aes Sedai are still torturing Rand, while most of them are not willing to do so anymore.

This can be seen in two different ways:

- They feel sorry for him.

- Rand is no longer a threat to their lives and so they can't use the OP on him anymore because they are bound to the oath.

 

Since he is still being beaten by some Aes Sedai who have the most reason (in their eyes) to hate him, both reasons can apply.

But for some reason I cannot help thinking it is the latter.

Probably because the Aes Sedai are so good in forcing others (even other AS) into forcing things they don't want to do.

[Mr Ares]

Yet eavesdropping with the One Power is permitted in almost any case. This to me makes little sense since gaining knowledge could be considered a weapon.

How? Gaining knowledge, in and of itself, isn't harmful. It's what you do with it. That might be considered a weapon, but that would depend on the Sister. There's no reason why it should be considered a weapon.

This is true to a degree but is still a weapon because if the sister in question was ever attacked then she has knowledge to use in her defence, just because you don't use what you have learned doesn't make it any less powerful.

But the Oath is not to use the OP as a weapon. It says nothing about using the OP to gain a weapon - for example, using flows of Air to pick up a sword. And so even if a Sister did consider the use of the knowledge she had acquired to be a weapon, the actual acquisition of the knowledge would violate no Oaths if she used OP eavesdropping, and the actual use of the knowledge would only violate the Oath if the Sister considered what she was doing to be using a weapon and she used the OP to disseminate the information. And why should she?

 

* and i believe that the oath is only valid when killing, not just hurting, as we can see when Rand is kidnapped, trapped in the box and beaten with the OP if i remember it right.

The Oath is about not using it as a weapon. If they didn't believe that using it in a certain way was using it as a weapon, it would be OK - using a sword to wound someone is a weapon, but using a cane on an unruly pupil could be considered a disciplinary tool. It's not about killing or hurting, it's about whether or not the Sister in question considers her use to be a weapon. If so, she can't do it, if not, she can.

 

hell, those oaths are so loose that we even see them make OP weapons in Two Rivers during the fight with the trollocs, even though that oath directly mentions nothing about Shadowspawn.

It doesn't need to. The Oath is to make no weapon for one man to kill another. They weren't making weapons for one man to kill another, they were making weapons for someone (either men or themselves) to kill Shadowspawn. Which does not violate the letter of the Oath. Does it even go against the spirit? Why would there be a problem?

[mb]

Some other issues::

 

In Moiraine's letter to Rand, she implies that she knew about  Asmodean.  When did she find out?  And how come she uses the alias instead of actual name if the words were going to fade anyway?

 

Alanna at Dumai's Wells battle had perfect right to fight since Rand was her warder.  Why did she not fight?  I suspect she wanted the bond to be secret.

 

Seeing Taveren is a channel related Talent.  Since Siuan and Logan were severed ones that had the Talent, did they regain it when they were Healed?

Also, is that Talent someone is born with or is it someone can develop?

The non-channeling Talents (Foretelling, Dreaming, Dreamwalking) I guess the people would be born with.

Channeling related Talents that use actual weaves (Air, Water, Earth, Fire, Spirit) I guess a channeler could develop.