How do darkfriends recognize each other?

[Hybrid]

But generally you'd think that there would be some organisation so that darkfriends would have an inkling of other darkfriends

Exactly.  In small towns, I'd think all the Darkfriends in one cell would know all the other Darkfriends in that cell.  Even in cities, it would probably make more sense.  The need for secrecy is only with important Darkfriends, like those in the Tower.

A city like Caemlyn's gonna have 500-1000 darkfriends. You definitely don't want the average grunt knowing to much or an investigation by the Queens Guard could potentially snap up dozens of agents at once and cripple their operation.

 

I don't know many people who can memorize 500-1000 names and faces of people they rarely see, so yes that would be excessive.  But I don't think that the groups are as small as 3 people.  Old Cully's group was around a dozen I think.  At least, a number of people attacked Mat in Ebou Dar.

[son omerc]

I figure non AS darkfriends are set up similarly to the AS but not identically. Size of the "Hearts" probably vary somewhat but how many are known to each individual would increase with your level of importance with someone like Old Cully being pretty familiar with most of the DF in his city/area even if they didn't know more than a handful themselves. "Signs" would be an acceptable form of ID as a card or pin in your possession would cause too many questions if caught. Some innocuous little gesture that you could make with a hand that wouldn't get you branded as crazy while not being too common of a gesture that normal folks would have DFs falling at the feet everytime they adjusted their hair or clothing.

[algspkr]

Darkfriends and shadowspawn can see the Dark One's mark of authority but "normal" people cannot, right?  That way they know who is in charge.  I think I have that much straight now.

 

Padan Fain is special.  That I understand.

 

The Aiel darkfriends could have used normal logic and bits of conversation to determine that Kadere was a darkfriend I guess.  This would fit the RJ quote.

 

So.

There isn't any special "darkfriend detection device" that they acquire when they give their souls to the shadow, right?  Other than being able to see the special "obey me" marks.

Do I have it now?

???

Only the Forsaken have the marks, along with Alvairin's lesser mark, and none but shadowspan and possibly the Forsaken can see these marks.  It is highly unlikely that the Forsaken can see them, but there is no hard evidence against it.

[Sabio]

Reading the BWB seems like to be a DF you just need to give an oath.  Since there are different levels of commitment among the DF's.  Some want the DO free and others as described in the BWB simply want to belong to something greater then themselves, something dark and naughty.  or you can go all out give your soul up and become a Grayman.

[GrandpaG]

This old topic woke me up from a sound sleep this morning, so I need to reply.

 

 

Situation:

 

A large battle is in progress...part of the Last Battle, let's say.

 

Darkfriends are openly participating along with other Shadow forces.

 

As the battle progresses, and fighting gets more chaotic, how do the darkfriends recognize their allies?

 

Did they all put on a black armband before the fight?

 

Aiel can tell other Aiel memberships in clans and societies at a glance.  Wetlanders MIGHT be able to tell a Maiden from a Stone Dog.

 

The sign thing mentioned in last year's discussion (above) would not work in the heat of battle.  The Aiel use variations of clothing, I think, and their unique variations seem to be common knowledge among the Aiel.  Even if darkfriend talk was as polished as Maiden hand talk, I doubt that it would work during a battle as identification for friend or foe.

 

They'll have to have some way to know who to kill.

[ROB_88]

well, if it's one army of darkfriends vs one army of 'regular' people, it shouldn't be so hard. then it's just like in any battle.

 

however there would be a problem if there were darkfriends infiltrated in the 'good guys' army who are trying to disrupt them

[Sharaman]

Well the Chinese Triads had some very normal phrases that marked them out to each other.

Like if a Triad guy wanted to check if somebody else was triad he'd say "You look familiar. Do we have friends in common?" and the second chap would reply with something like " In Heaven and Earth, any two persons must have friends in common". (Mentioning "heaven-earth" together was crucial)

Or if a Triad guy was asked "Where are you going?" He would say "I'm coming from the East and going West" ("East-West")

But if he was asked "Where are you going?" he'd say "Just across the next bridge/ street "  ("Across" being key)

So they could identify each other while not sounding too weird.

 

 

[Cillian]

How the heck do they do it?

???

 

Simple, my good man. They do the super-secret handshake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2YZIzfKLdk

[GrandpaG]

I have free dial-up, so I didn't try to download them (would take all day), but I get the idea.  Should go something like this:

 

Two guys getting ready to fight.

Darkfriend lays down his sword to do the handshake.

Other guy slices off his head.

 

I don't think the secret word would work in a battle with all of the noise going on.  Also, no time to stop to ask questions.

 

I guess the darkfriends could only kill someone with a uniform on and the lightfriends could avoid killing anyone with their own uniform on.  This might work best.  Maybe that's why different nations develop their own special uniforms for their armies?

 

Back when I first posted this, what was bothering me was the statement made to Rand making fun of him that he could not tell who the darkfriends were in his own band of followers (or something to that effect).  That led me to believe that darkfriends must have some way of telling at a glance that another person is a darkfriend even though non-darkfriends can't see any difference...some sort of darkfriend ID mark that is gained as soon as the oath is spoken...or something like that.  But, thinking along those lines, how would Rand be able to see the darkfriend mark unless he was himself a darkfriend?

 

I don't know.  Maybe this will surface in the next couple of books.  Maybe not.  I don't know.

[Taura-Tierno]

Darkfriends being able to ID one another on sight would be a serious security risk. That would mean that every darkfriend would know the identity of a great deal of darkfriends. Since some DF will eventually be caught and questioned, such an event would probably wreck havoc to the DF organization. So I'd guess that no single darkfriend knows too many names, unless they're really high up in the hierarchy, like Alviarin.

 

As for battle ... I don't think there would be any way to tell, unless the darkfriends are in the opposing army. I'd reckon most darkfriends who have infiltrated the armies of the Light will try to avoid fighting in the front line as cannon fodder, since that's quite useless. If they don't have explicit orders to follow (I assume most do) they'd probably try to stay someplace where they will survive until they can further the Shadow the most, if the need arises.

 

If a darkfriend in a Lightside army is on the front line - tough for him. He probably won't do much good there anyway, if he's alone.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Mame tags or possibly badges

[ed2funy]

All of that is possible, but it still doesn't change what I posted which directly answers the topic creator's question.

 

From what I saw, your post answered how they feel out new members, not how established members 'ask' if you are a DF. Once they are in, they recognize each other with special hand signals.

 

 

Well, we do know that specific people are in charge of specific groups via Carridin's POV, where we learn about Old Cully and his cell, for example.  However, I don't think it mentions anything about the 3 members knowing 3 members thing.  Personally, I think that that network arrangement is only for the White Tower, where people can be compelled to tell the truth through means such as the Oath Rod.  In a small town, the Darkfriends are much less worried about discovery because small towns aren't anti-Shadow bases.

 

He is right. From that POV, we know that most DF's know pretty big groups (under or around 10), and I believe (not sure) that the leaders of each group know each other.

 

 

 

As for fighting in a battle:

I think Gramps said it best (you took my word man!):

I guess the darkfriends could only kill someone with a uniform on and the lightfriends could avoid killing anyone with their own uniform on.  This might work best.  Maybe that's why different nations develop their own special uniforms for their armies?

 

DF's aren't likely to have uniforms of any sort. A good-guys group will.

The DF's that fight openly on the side of the Shadow will know who to fight.

 

If there are DF's on th light side, hiding out, they will most likely wait until they can do the most damage.

Knowing they will probably die and killing several open DF's in the process, they will wait until they can take out a key person (like a general).

 

That is the way I see it. ;D