Did the shadow rise more than usual in the shadow rising?

[RAND AL THOR]

I was wondering why Book 4 is named so because the shadow's quite busy throughout the series.

 

So, Did the shadow rise more than usual in the shadow rising?

[Cockta]

Dunno. When I heard the title the first time, I thought Rand and co. was in big trouble, but in my memory, I can't remember that the Shadow did anything special in that particular book.

[Hybrid]

Good question.  What did happen was that we gained more insight into the various Forsaken's activities.  Also, I think this was the start of their alliances.  Or was that in TFOH?  In any case, we start to have more insight into the various Dark plots out there.  And it's a dramatic title.

[RAND AL THOR]

And it's a dramatic title.

 

Dramatic indeed! When I came to the tower breaking, I thought "Omg, this book truly deserves the name." But then after reading the rest I wondered whether one of the latter should have deserved the name.

[Hybrid]

I forgot about the Tower breaking!  That is, IMO, a clear sign that the Shadow is rising in power--the sundering of the greatest power in the wetlands.  The rest of the books take place afterwards, but this is the first major victory the Shadow has in the series.

[Dakeyras]

Trollocs would have destroyed the Two Rivers. Moghedien and the BA were well on their way to finding the first male a'dam we've ever seen. Lanfear made herself known to Rand and tried to tempt him. Asmodean almost came away with the Choedan Kal. Yup i'd say the Shadow had a pretty good run in the 4th book.

[Triggy]

I think it's a perfect title because the Shadow is rising in importance for first real time in 1000 years across the entire continent (the first three books had sporadic incidents but not a uniform set of events in many nations). Sure there aren't many Forsaken events coming to a head in the grand scheme of things but that's why it's "rising" rather than "risen".

[Hybrid]

:D

I just realized how funny the title to this thread is.

[Leopoled Boothe]

After the first three books none of the titles really make a lot of sense.  I know they are all phrases from the K-cycle and other writings but its not always clear exactly how they relate to the particular book.  Actually I can see how "Lord of Chaos" and "A Crown of Swords" relate to their books but, the others I'm not sure about particularly "The Fires of Heaven."  What does that title have to do with the events in book 5?

[Mr Ares]

After the first three books none of the titles really make a lot of sense.

Winter's Heart is pretty obvious.

[Vemynal]

'fire of heaven' would refer to holy wrath or holy justice.

 

Can you think of anyone in the book who exacts righteous vengeance on another for a wrong done to them?

 

-Shaido aiel/carherian

-Rand/Rah'vin

-Lanfear/Rand

-Moraine/Lanfear

-mysteryman/Asmodean (I mean he did betray the shadow, so they must have been avenging his betrayal is how i see it)

Nyneave & Elayne/Moghedien

 

 

thats all i can think of now, but that was also off the top of my head. I'm sure theres more

 

the only one that doesn't make sense in my mind is "Crossroads of Twilight"

 

While i think its referencing the wild hunt being unleashed as discovered by Perrin, and that the dark ones influence is especially strong at twilight (when day dies and when night dies; his power laying in death) there arnt many specific reasons for the book to be named that.

[RAND AL THOR]

I was disappointed with the Crown of Swords ending mainly because it appeared rushed. Rand was just almost fatally injured and he just jumps up and runs off to Illian to finish Sammael. The build up of their 'plan' was revealed to the reader in a not-so-interesting manner. Because of that, I think the book itself is poorly named as it refers to the incident that occurred in the very last chapter. Better events occur in that book, which could have been used for titles.

 

 

CoT and KoD just baffled me. I would loved it if Book 10 had been called "The Amyrlin War"

[Hybrid]

CoT and KoD just baffled me. I would loved it if Book 10 had been called "The Amyrlin War"

 

"The Amyrlin War" sounds kinda cliched to me.  Every series seems to have "The <something> War."  Crossroads of Twilight, I think, is understandable when you look at the beginning prophecy, talking about the right hand faltering and the left hand straying (or something to that effect), aka Perrin and Mat, who did a lot of faltering and straying, respectively, in regards to Rand.  I agree that Knife of Dreams is difficult to understand.  Seems to me that it could apply to any book.  In fact, I thought it would be more appropriate for a book with more of a mix of victory and defeat, rather than the book in which several major plotlines were finished up.

[Asmo]

Book 1 - The Eye of the World, named thus because of the quest to find, well, the Eye of the World

Book 2 - The Great Hunt, named thus out of the boys' quest to find the Horn

Book 3 - The Dragon Reborn, named thus since Rand came to grips with his identity in this book

Book 4 - The Shadow Rising, for the first time Rand confronted concentrated plots and schemes of the Shadow which starts taking a more organized form now, instead of the random Forsaken here and there

Book 5 - The Fires of Heaven, named from Balefire

Book 6 - The Lord of Chaos, named as such because chaos rages across the world with the kidnapping of Rand and the rise of the Asha'man

Book 7 - The Crown of Swords, named thus out of the crown Rand claimed in the end of the book

Book 8 - The Path of Daggers, I can't point my finger why exactly it's named like this. Probably from the events in Altara, but it's still metaphorical

Book 9 - Winter's Heart, for one thing it takes place in the heart of winter, for another it represents Rand's cold heart

Book 10 - Crossroads of Twilight, named because the "reality rippling" that causes ghosts to appear happens at crossroads and during twilight, probably indicating the coming of the Last Battle

Book 11 - Knife of Dreams, no idea

 

Thought it might help a little. The names are generally fine, except some of the last ones.

[RAND AL THOR]

 

Book 7 - The Crown of Swords, named thus out of the crown Rand claimed in the end of the book

 

Yup he gets it in the end in a really weird way. It could have been named better.

 

 

Book 11 - Knife of Dreams, no idea

 

;D

 

 

[hapazard]

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Book 10 - Crossroads of Twilight, named because the "reality rippling" that causes ghosts to appear happens at crossroads and during twilight, probably indicating the coming of the Last Battle

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Couldn't 'Crossroads of Twilight' also imply meetings taking place before the night? Night as in The Last Battle and the ending (night) of an age.

Quite logical if you consider the whole of CoT as a setup for the KoD. Peoples paths cross and the meetings thus created set the stage for whats to come.....

[Hybrid]

And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides, when the right hand falters and the left hand strays, that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight, and all that is, all that was, and all that will be shall balance on the point of the sword, while the winds of the Shadow grow.

So in COT, we've got the Dark Hunt, aka the enormous Darkhound pack, showing up, and Perrin and Mat doing a lot of faltering and straying, though I'm not sure who is doing the faltering and who the straying.  There is also the tie-in with the ghosts, but those are not spoken of in the prophecy.

 

With his coming are the dread fires born again. The hills burn, and the land turns sere. The tides of men run out, and the hours dwindle. The wall is pierced, and the veil of parting raised. Storms rumble beyond the horizon, and the fires of heaven purge the earth. There is no salvation without destruction, no hope this side of death.

Fires of Heaven, to me, is an arbitrarily chosen name from the beginning prophecy of TFOH.  The prophecy speaks about the general state of Randland--tides of man running out, land turning sere, veil of parting raised (refers to Mat, Asmo, and Aviendha being brought back at the end I think)--and the "fires of heaven" is the most dramatic and appropriate phrase in that prophecy for the title of the book.  I don't think, despite the similarity of names, that it applies to balefire.

 

On the heights, all paths are paved with daggers.

Path of Daggers, I think, applies to Rand doing more dangerous dealings and negotiations with nobles, as well as the tie-in with the Seanchan.  I'm not so sure about this one, though, since it applies to pretty much every book post-TDR.

 

The sweetness of victory and the bitterness of defeat are alike a knife of dreams.

KOD is also supposed to refer to the events which take place in the book.  However, there is plenty of victory but not much defeat, so I'm not so sure.

 

[Mr Ares]

Fires of Heaven, to me, is an arbitrarily chosen name from the beginning prophecy of TFOH.

Could even have been the reverse - he thought of the name Fires of Heaven for the book, and so decided to find a way to tie it in, so wrote the Prophecy specifically to include the title.

[RAND AL THOR]

Fires of Heaven, to me, is an arbitrarily chosen name from the beginning prophecy of TFOH.

Could even have been the reverse - he thought of the name Fires of Heaven for the book, and so decided to find a way to tie it in, so wrote the Prophecy specifically to include the title.

 

Very likely. 60% of writer's works are done this way, I'd say.

[Hybrid]

Fires of Heaven, to me, is an arbitrarily chosen name from the beginning prophecy of TFOH.

Could even have been the reverse - he thought of the name Fires of Heaven for the book, and so decided to find a way to tie it in, so wrote the Prophecy specifically to include the title.

 

Good point.  Reminds me sort of the robotics design process I learned in an internship.  90% of the time, they come up with a list of needs and then build a robot to fulfill them.  The other 10%, someone comes up with a cool idea and then decides what needs it should fulfill.

[Leopoled Boothe]

With his coming are the dread fires born again. The hills burn, and the land turns sere. The tides of men run out, and the hours dwindle. The wall is pierced, and the veil of parting raised. Storms rumble beyond the horizon, and the fires of heaven purge the earth. There is no salvation without destruction, no hope this side of death.

Fires of Heaven, to me, is an arbitrarily chosen name from the beginning prophecy of TFOH.  The prophecy speaks about the general state of Randland--tides of man running out, land turning sere, veil of parting raised (refers to Mat, Asmo, and Aviendha being brought back at the end I think)--and the "fires of heaven" is the most dramatic and appropriate phrase in that prophecy for the title of the book.  I don't think, despite the similarity of names, that it applies to balefire.

 

Then again it could refer to balefire.  TFoH was the first time that Rand actively went after a Forsaken with the intent of eliminating him, or purging him from the earth if you will.  Prior to this all of Rand's dealings with Forsaken had been chance encounters (Be'lal) or them seeking him out (Ishameal, Aginor, Balthamel, Asmodean, Lanfear).  And since Forsaken can be trasmigrated balefire is one of the few sure-fire ways of purging them from the earth.

[Jonn]

Crossroads of Twilight, I always took to refer to the Dark Hunt as well. It was said that the most dangerous time to run into a pack of dark hounds is at a crossroad in twilight or just before dawn.

Even further I took it to mean that this book was supposed to give off a feeling of anticipation. All of the characters spend a lot of time wondering how much time they have before they face the Last Battle. The danger of being at a crossroads in twilight in the context of the Dark Hunt is pretty apt, as nothing is actually happening in that situation, but the potential that the hounds are abruptly going to be upon you...

 

Then there's the simple answer that at a crossroads, paths cross and meet, and at times a decision must be made here. Go forward or in another direction. For most of the characters, all of the paths are dark and foreboding, and not likely to lead to the light of day any time soon. Hence, Twilight.

 

Knife of Dreams, I think it makes sense to take it in the context of the prompt given. It was written by Madoc Coumadrin, and unless I'm mistaken, he was an author and a war Captain. It is true, our heroes had a string of victories in this book, but as the author warns us, both "the sweetness victory and the bitterness of defeat are alike a knife of dreams."

If we're talking about the feelings one feels for both extremes of victory and defeat, then it may refer to how intangible a dream is, but how real it can seem. We saw how even though our heroes ended up with victories, their feelings conflicted with the actual fact that they had won. Perrin won his battle, but then there was little to be happy of outside of his retrieving his wife. He had to kill Aram, and he made probably an unwise promise to the Seanchan. Faile was finally free, but her rejoicing at seeing her husband was clouded by the fact that her actions probably resulted in the deaths of some good men who meant to free her. Mat won his battles, but still he struggles with being a leader and accepting his fate and importance to the big picture. And again, Rand was able to capture Semirhage, but at the cost of his hand, and the open knowledge that he is schizophrenic.

Our emotions can be at odds with what the reality of the situation actually is. As a knife of dreams it exists in our minds and can cut us as deeply as a blade of steel, deeper even.

 

The Fires of Heaven: I note that in this book, twice a bolt of lightning is directed at Rand from one of the Forsaken, and ends up killing others around him. Once on his lookout tower at the siege of Cairhien and again when Rahvin killed Rand's companions with lightning when he attacked Caemlyn by surprise. Many references to lighting as fire from heaven in literature.

 

The Shadow Rising: Well, in this book it is common knowledge to our heroes that pretty much all of the Forsaken who aren't dead are about and operating, making their move. Before it was one here, and another discovered in that region. No, in this book, without a doubt, they're all out there, and they are ahead of the game. Even the Black Ajah are moving, and doing so more boldly. The Tower splits. Rand splits the Aiel thanks to Lanfear and Asmodean's interference with the Shaido. The revelation that the Shadow is using the Ways to transport troops all over the world at will...Finally, let's not forget Rand's trip through the glass columns, where we get to see the fall of the Age of Legends and even the moment the bore was drilled. If that isn't literally the Shadow Rising, I don't know what is.