Why did Elaida let Rand leave the palace?

[RAND AL THOR]

Elaida made quite a fortelling about Rand in Caemlyn. I wonder why she allowed him to leave?

 

She could not have overriden Morgase but she seems to hold a lot of sway. She afterwards searched the entire city and that shows how desperate she was. Surely she could have prevented Rand from leaving the palace? Elaida retains the words that come when he Fortells. So, she could easily have warned Morgase that this man would bring trouble to Andor, so lets keep him for a bit.

 

 

[Roxinos]

I thought she did warn Morgase that he would bring trouble to Andor. However, if I recall correctly, Rand was being personally escorted by both Morgase's son and daughter. Regardless of Elaida's sway within the palace, she could not simply order Gawyn and Elayne to keep Rand within the palace.

[balefireruinssteaks]

Despite everything, Morgase simply did not feel that Rand posed enough of a threat to keep in the palace.  I think that was the main thing...the Queen's command is final, even if an Aes Sedai disagrees.

[Valinthros]

I think this is a very good question.

 

First, I'd like to point out that Aes Sedai as a rule do as they please.  Now, this isnt always done bluntly.  A simple redirection comment like, "Would you like to join me for tea?" would have sufficed in keeping him in the palace.  What I stated isnt very inventive, however you see my point.  There are other ways of getting what you want in a situation like that.

 

After a foretelling like that added to her previous one about the royal family, why indeed would she let him go?

[Roxinos]

Rand was fairly uncomfortable in the situation, and while you admitted that suggestion was rather weak, Rand just wanted to get out of the palace as quickly as possible. No suggestion from her was likely to stop him. As far as I'm aware, he already had a distrust of Aes Sedai what with Moiraine being all enigmatic.

 

Despite all of that, though, the case is simple. Rand wanted to leave. Morgase saw no need to keep him, especially considering he fell in by accident, something her own daughter would admit to. And even with the Aes Sedai's pull and power of suggestion, she is ultimately at the will of the Queen she serves. Proof in that is that Elaida was dismissed by Morgase later (once Morgase was under the will of Rahvin).

[Valinthros]

With a mere 'boy', I'm sure Elaida could have handled that.  Distrust or no, years of experience would definitely pull up something she could have said to halt his procession to the gates.  I stated this above, and here's the why of it again:

 

Aes Sedai generally do what they like.  King or not.  They are not all powerful, as we know, nor right.  However they are the most strong willed organization in Randland, and their tactics are definitely diversified.  I'm sure for those reasons she could have come up with something.

 

As to the dismissal, Morgase would never have done this without Rahvin's influence.  In that instance, there was no manuevering available, because Rahvin was acting through Morgase.  Which is to say, Morgase had no mind with which to reason with.  The control was beyond Elaida's reach.  To suggest in a situation where someone unseen is pulling the strings in comparison where all parties are present does not prove anything.

 

With the above being said, I still have no clue why she allowed it.  Set straight by the queen or not, with things like this I dont think any Aes Sedai would relinquish what hold they have if they can help it.  There is more besides searching Caemlyn after Rand leaves.  Why not have him followed out the door and kidnapped when out of sight of the palace?  That's not beneath her, as we see in the not so distant future.  ;)

[RAND AL THOR]

I agree that Elaida seems incompetent in the EOTW compared to later in the series.

[Ritsar]

Elaida probably thought that she could pick up Rand later. After all she did conduct a search soon after. She probably didn't believe Rand would leave the city so quickly and since she was already planning on picking him up why make an issue there in the throne room.

[CUBAREY]

It would have been stupid for Elaida to attempt to stop Rand from leaving the Palace. Elaida was the advisor to Morgase because she thought that Andor was the key to TG. Pissing-off the Queen is not a good way to insure that your advice is followed in the furture. You also over-simplify the role that AS pl;ay. They manipulate, they brow-beat they coerce but they do not generally attempt to openly go against the word of a Monarch in their own country.

 

Moroever, how exactly was she to keep Rand in the palace. She had no group of guards to do her bidding (against the wishes of Morgase), and as has been said from her point of view there was no real urgency, Rand could and would have been picked up quickly after if Moirrain had not shown up and there was nothing that Elaida knew of that indicated that Moirrain or any other AS would have aided Rand escape.

[Elwinn Taron]

ta'veren

[Roxinos]

With a mere 'boy', I'm sure Elaida could have handled that.

 

Why are you so sure? With Elayne supporting Rand, and Gawyn supporting Elayne, you have two of the Queen's children who would not be particularly pleased with any interference from Elaida. Elaida is an Aes Sedai, but being an advisor to a Queen whom she believes will be important in the future, she is still limited in her powers. The fact is that Rand did leave the palace, and your suggestion that Elaida could have handled it really doesn't have much basis beyond your ideas of what an Aes Sedai should be capable of.

 

Aes Sedai generally do what they like.  King or not.

 

Generally, yes. However, we haven't seen too many Aes Sedai who are at the mercy of a King or Queen. Who are in a self-imposed advisory position, that is. So we don't have much to compare Elaida's actions with. We only have what we know of Aes Sedai in general. However, you cannot assume that Aes Sedai merely act the same way with the general public that they do with Kings and Queens. I believe it's been stated several times in the series that Aes Sedai may be powerful, but ultimately, when they are outside of the Tower, they are at the will of the Queen or King who they are visiting or advising.

 

However they are the most strong willed organization in Randland, and their tactics are definitely diversified.

 

Indeed. But Elaida in this case is not the organization of Aes Sedai. She is merely one woman who is serving as adviser to the Queen of Andor. She is quite limited just by that.

 

As to the dismissal, Morgase would never have done this without Rahvin's influence.

 

Agreed. I was merely using that as an example for the subservience and limitations of the Aes Sedai while serving under a Queen. Morgase may not have done it without Rahvin's influence, however, she still could. And Elaida knows this, and I would assume that she would not want to risk her position within the palace. Especially considering how strongly she thought about Andor's role in the Last Battle.

 

With the above being said, I still have no clue why she allowed it.

 

Because she didn't have a choice. It was the will of Morgase and Elayne that Rand leave, and while she could have maneuvered all she wanted to, Elayne was aware of it, and she sped Rand out of the palace as quickly as possible. It isn't as simple as Elaida simply speaking a word to Morgase and Morgase hopping to. Elaida would need to convince Morgase that Rand was worth keeping around. Rand got out of the palace faster than Elaida could nab him.

 

I'm quite sure she did try to convince Morgase to keep him within the palace. Or to at least keep him within the palace without Morgase's direct order using her own maneuvering.

 

I'm not suggesting and I never have suggested that she just simply let Rand waltz out of the palace. I'm merely pointing out that the situation was not as simple as Elaida merely pulling some strings and Rand being withheld. I think you overestimate Elaida's influence because she's an Aes Sedai.

 

Why not have him followed out the door and kidnapped when out of sight of the palace?  That's not beneath her, as we see in the not so distant future.

 

I'm sure the option came to mind. But she didn't. Rand was in a hurry enough as it is. Besides, Elaida has some dignity at this point. I doubt she has reached the point wherein she thinks that kidnapping someone is a proper thing to do. She might have had she known what Rand was to become rather than just having a prophecy that Rand was going to cause an awful lot of trouble, but the fact of the matter is that she didn't and there is no reason, considering all the circumstances, to believe that she could have done anything more than what we could assume that she did.

 

There is no reason to believe that she could have captured him if she had wanted to because she didn't and you should assume that she did try her best to keep him at the very least within eyeshot.

[Tiyger]

Maybe it was as simple as Taveren pulling strings. Maybe if he had not been Taveren, she WOULD have found a way to keep him under lock and key.

[Majsju]

Snatching Rand from whatever inn he stayed at and lock him up somewhere for a little "chat" would be a good way for Elaida to get her hands on Rand without putting a dent in the relation with Morgase, which ordering rand seized while he was escorted by Morgases kids would have done.

 

As for rahvin being involved with Morgase at this point, he did not appear in Caemlyn until much later, during Morgases visit to Tar Valon that we learn about in TDR.

[Mr Ares]

Maybe it was as simple as Taveren pulling strings. Maybe if he had not been Taveren, she WOULD have found a way to keep him under lock and key.

Ta'veren is only ever a partial answer, and rarely an interesting one. Ta'veren twist chance. So whatever happens around a ta'veren could happen without one, but may be more likely to happen in their presence. There still needs to be a reason for Elaida's actions, there still needs to be a reasoning process. There still needs to be a reason why she did what she did. All ta'veren can do is a less probable outcome more probable. And as there is nothing all that improbable about Elaida not wanting to put a dent in her relations with Morgase, there is no real need to wave ta'veren around as if it were the answer.

[Roxinos]

Rand being ta'veren certainly might have played some part in it, but I'm not willing to just explain it away by saying "ta'veren."

 

I don't even think the ta'veren effects were all that powerful at this point in the story. I think they got very powerful after the first book, once he had accepted being the Dragon Reborn and needed to proclaim it. But that's just supposition.

[schizm]

Elaida didn't have a real chance to stop him from leaving. If memory serves me correctly, after Morgase allowed him to go, she told Bryne and Elaida she wanted to talk about something, I don't remember what it was now, but Elaida would have had to completely ignore Morgase to stop Rand. Likely she planned on catching him later, once she was done with Morgase, hence the reason she tore the city up looking for him.

[deathgate]

Don't forget that in Elaine's and later some of Morgase's perspectives show what rule of law is in Andor and how they must follow it. Rand could not be held for something he had not done yet and Morgase stalled Elaida long enough for Rand to escape. Elaida surely though there would be no problems picking him up later but again Rand had help. Rand was helped by a lot of different people many of whom just met him. Personal attraction, laws, loyalty and friendship got him out of that mess.

[Snowy Dawn]

``Elaida surely though there would be no problems picking him up later''

 

That's the gist of it, I think. Elaida expected him to be easily found---that he would disappear thru' the Ways was no doubt a complete surprise to her.

[RAND AL THOR]

But how easy is it to find a person is an entire city? Seems next to impossible-especially if that person does not have a permanent residence in that city.

[Roxinos]

When you're an Aes Sedai with a lot of money and a very good description of the person? I'd say quite easy. Especially considering Rand had the red bands on his sword which said he was a supporter of the Queen. That was rare in the city during that time.

[Majsju]

And Rand is not exactly just any random bloke, he is a two meters tall guy looking a lot like an Aiel in a city were a lot of people still remember the Aiel war.

[Roxinos]

Bah. I was going to mention that bit as well, but I totally forgot about it. *laughs*

[Hybrid]

He was also likely to be staying in one of the inns in the city.  She no doubt knows each and every inn's location, or can find out.  If she still couldn't find him, she could start circulating a description and eventually he would be found.  Also, there would be a watch at the gates to prevent him from leaving the city or at least to inform Elaida that he had left.

[Kaznen]

Don't forget he looks like Tigraine Mantear.

 

But lying to here about the what inn he was staying at helped.