Aes Sedai and children

[Paviel]

It occurred to me that Elayne is apparently the first Aes Sedai to have children. While I'm sure that most Aes Sedai are too wrapped up in their duties to have children, and only a Green sister would think about men that way anyway, it strikes me as odd that even within the Green Ajah Elayne is setting a precedent. Myrelle, for example, has never gotten pregnant even though... actually, we have no substantial proof that she has sexual relations with her Warders, only rumors from other Aes Sedai and a hickey on Lan's neck in LoC...

 

Anyway... since we have a clear example of an Aes Sedai having children, which seems to be unprecedented, I thought it might be a good topic for discussion.

[dragonlover]

if i had to guess id say there some trick with the power that they use that elayne wasnt told about

[Majsju]

I think most Aes Sedai knows about heartleaf tea...

[RAND AL THOR]

actually, we have no substantial proof that she has sexual relations with her Warders, only rumors from other Aes Sedai and a hickey on Lan's neck in LoC...

 

 

 

I think its clear enough. :)

 

AS don't have time for kids anyway.

There's likely a secret weave or perhaps a sort of 'ward'?

Elayne is just raised and most AS dont look at her as AS (at least not till KOD) so you get the general idea....

[DemandredFO]

Also, Aes Sedai probably don't want to have to let a son die if he can channel, now of course that no longer matters.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

But if there aren't many Aes Sedai who have children, then why is it considered that the main reason the channeling gene is being bred out is because the gentled men don't reproduce??

[Fryn]

It's both, which is why some Aes Sedai think they should have channelers bread with male channelers before they still them. Honestly I think the early aes sedai just took the easy way out. They both thought it was easier not to have children that might be male and channel, and to outlive their offspring. Over time it just became a president that aes sedai don't have children so they didn't want to rock the boat. If you figure that they live a few hundred years it would only take 1 - 2 generations at the creating of the white tower for this to become the norm. It is one of the many things the Aes Sedai have don't trying to be superior where they have made the current situation of Randland worse than it should be (note all other channeling groups have large numbers of new channlers).

 

Assuming the channeling gene is recessive (it skips generations) if a male channeler and a female channeler mated then the child would have a near 100% chance to be a channeler. It is likely not as simple as somegenetic traits so I wouldn't say it is 100% (I would guess there would there are at least 3 options; channeler gene©, non channeler (D), and neutral(n) where a nc would be a channeler - likely without the spark inborn). There is actually some strong evidence that this is the case. If you look at the extended family tree that contains Rand, Moraine, Elyane, Rand's mother you can determine the basic probabilities. Really though we need to have both Galad and Gawyn tested to see if they can channel as well. You also get some of the details from the Sea folks.

 

A bit deeper though, its just basic genetics and selective breeding. The ability to channel is often dormant. Over thousands of years if you selectively kill off all of the resultant offspring with the trait you don't want then that trait over time will become rarer. Every male killed over a thousand year period that was a channeler was 1 less origin for future channelers (on the brightside they didnt kill off that persons family, which is seen in some breeding programs, mainly with plants, because those traits will have a larger chance of being a carrier for the gene).

 

There are examples of where this has happened in human civilization, but I'd rather not go into it and potential upset others =)

[wconn1979]

I wonder how many of Rands kids will be channelers.

[aslansrevenge]

All

[Avery]

Do we know that the channeling gene is genetic?

 

It seems that there are a lot of channelers out there, but they just don't have the spark, so it will never emerge on it's own. That and Aes Sedai hadn't actively looked for channelers before ACoS/PoD.

[42Bonzo88]

  I think this was touched on in the thread but if the kids didn't channel, they would not have the long life. I have heard it said many times by many people that having your kids die before you do is one of the worst experiences there are, wether by tragedy or natural causes. I have not had that experience, and hope never to have to, but I could see that being an issue.

 

On a funny note, could you just see the White Tower with a Day Care?

 

    *Siuan speaking* (as Amyriliyn to the Wondergirls) "If you think that scrubbing pots are bad, you also have to spend five days taking care of my children in the Day Care!" ;D

[wconn1979]

  I think this was touched on in the thread but if the kids didn't channel, they would not have the long life. I have heard it said many times by many people that having your kids die before you do is one of the worst experiences there are, wether by tragedy or natural causes. I have not had that experience, and hope never to have to, but I could see that being an issue.

 

On a funny note, could you just see the White Tower with a Day Care?

 

    *Siuan speaking* (as Amyriliyn to the Wondergirls) "If you think that scrubbing pots are bad, you also have to spend five days taking care of my children in the Day Care!" ;D

 

I think changing dirty diapers would be a good pennance.

[CUBAREY]

While I'm sure that most Aes Sedai are too wrapped up in their duties to have children, and only a Green sister would think about men that way anyway, 

 

 

That's going a bit too far. We know that Green's are the only Ajah to have more then one warder at once. We also know that Green's occasionally marry their warders. Indeed, Myrle is said to be married to all her warders. However, nothing in the books indicate that most Aides Sadie are not hetresexual and induldge in occasional interludes. At best we know only that most Red's would not think about men that way.

 

[Kaznen]

In the 3000+ years there had to have been some AS pregnant, some Queens were rumored to be AS or renegade AS and they needed to bare heirs.

 

I think in the last thousand years or so if a AS accidentally "got a little pregnant" they went far away from the WT for a while where no one knew she was AS, had the kid, left the kid with some one else to raise, and came back to TV and didn't say anything about why she was gone 7-9 months.

[Majsju]

If an Aes Sedao does happen to get pregnant and does not want it, surely the Yellow Ajah would have a weave to solve that problem.

[42Bonzo88]

   Yeah I agree Kaznen, I am going on a "quest" (Blue Ajah). I heard about some new papers discussing the land before Tear (Brown Ajah). There is a rumour of a possible "False Dragon" in Amadicia (not likely but Red Ajah).

 

   They all fit.

 

Majsju's idea would work also, the problem with that is if you wanted to keep it secret it would be hard in the White Tower. Leaving for a short while and were back up to the above, this time with a Yellow sister. After a while, that would become open knowledge too.

[Kaznen]

I don't think the yellows have a weave to remove unwanted pregnancies.  Their delving is barely able to tell if a women is pregnant, so how could they have a weave to fix something they might not be able to detect?

[42Bonzo88]

You would think that the power could be used for that and yet, look at all the other limitations the power has or the need to be strong enough to do certain things, maybe the Yellows (excluding Nynaeve) just haven't figured it out or maybe it will be a new cure that are starting to appear.

[Luckers]

I don't think the yellows have a weave to remove unwanted pregnancies.  Their delving is barely able to tell if a women is pregnant, so how could they have a weave to fix something they might not be able to detect?

 

We know that the very young cannot survive the rigors of healing. Likely simply getting healed would end an unwanted pregnancy.

 

In truth no Aes Sedai would need to make excuses. The custom of privacy is so strong that it wouldn't be an issue.

[CUBAREY]

We know that the very young cannot survive the rigors of healing. Likely simply getting healed would end an unwanted pregnancy.

 

Do you have a cite for this. As I remember the only talk of unborn children not possibly surviving the power is in the Ail "rebirth-- sisterhood ceremonies". It was explained that Amy's could not be part of the ceremony because her unborn twins might not survive or might be affected by the use of so much opower in their vacinity.

 

Moreover, due to the three oaths its questionable whether an AS could use the power to end a pregnency.

[42Bonzo88]

    It was Melanie's twins not Amy's. Easy mistake to make. :)

[Luckers]

"I could Heal him" [Moiraine] replied coolly. "Of course he is very young. He might not survive. Very likely not." At that age he very certainly would not survive the rigors of Healing.

 

[NS: 5 - The Human Heart]

 

If a toddler couldn't survive healing, a baby definately could not.