Badass female characters that ruined feminism

[Majsju]

You find all sorts of insane things when you start googling around for various character names, plus "feminism".

 

A Rapists View of the World: Joss Whedon & Firefly

 

 

 

That was one of the most hilarious rants I have read in ages ;D

[Nynaeve]

Reading that was such a waste of time :P

She takes good black humor and sarcasm and ruins it completely. Dumb chick!

 

 

 

 

Nyn

[JenniferL]

I can only aspire to being that clueless and wrong.

[Nynaeve]

I'm sure you'll make Jimmy proud :P

 

 

 

Nyn

[Naeann]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IdynbD7cNMo

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=t2fMTA3UWOQ

[Quisalas Selene]

So... as a personally-defined feminist, sexual domme, and mother of three, I object to the "he's cute, I want his babies!" descriptor making anyone not a feminist.

 

How does wanting a husband and children make me less a feminist, exactly?  Isn't feminism about being strong and having equal grounds with men, about having the choice to do what you want with your life?

 

Choosing to have children doesn't undermine the fact that the choice exists and I think it's ridiculous grounds to argue that an otherwise strong woman is suddenly a pitiful sop just because she wants a husband and children.

 

Elizabeth Swan annoys me too, by the way.  And I think Eowyn's "I am no man" was just a silly loophole, but I can't see how being happy in love makes someone less of a person, especially less of an admirable person.

 

Having children and a family is not against feminism.  Feminism was about having more than *just* a husband and family, which Eowyn certainly does.  If she gave up the throne to have babies, I might see it, but adding the challenges of a family onto the other responsibilities she has doesn't make her a non-feminist.

 

Also, I like the idea of the article and hope they accept it.  It sounds like it would be funny.

[Jay Solace]

Okay. I hope I'm not burnt as a witch here but I think I have a suggestion, on the premise that all 10 list members can't be disqualified because they're heterosexual and want children someday-

 

Xena: Warrior Princess.

 

No! Seriously, hear/read me out! (And if you can't see the immediate irony of a whole-heartedly militant, er, make that combat-capable, feminist with the word "Princess" in her title then you may want to stop reading this right now.)

 

If you would, envision with me Rush Limbaugh (or someone of his ilk): sitting behind a his late-night talk show desk; wearing his giant, ridiculous, spangly turban with a big ol' feather in it; and with a coffee mug that emblazoned with the words "I Hate Human Secularism".

 

The guffawing choir-boy, on the couch beside Rush, hands him an envelope that Rush presses to his forehead as he says, " An inflamed pustule; A bisexual  who wears a leather corset, kills tons of ludicrously inept men, can only be stood up to by women even angrier and more emotionally-scarred than she is, and has had children out of wedlock, but only the females grow to adult-hood; and something a hard of hearing genie gave me."

 

Rush opens the later and then says, "Name an annoying cyst, a feminist, and a twelve-inch pianist."

 

Hey-oooo!

 

 

[JenniferL]

So... as a personally-defined feminist, sexual domme, and mother of three, I object to the "he's cute, I want his babies!" descriptor making anyone not a feminist.

 

How does wanting a husband and children make me less a feminist, exactly?  Isn't feminism about being strong and having equal grounds with men, about having the choice to do what you want with your life?

 

Choosing to have children doesn't undermine the fact that the choice exists and I think it's ridiculous grounds to argue that an otherwise strong woman is suddenly a pitiful sop just because she wants a husband and children.

 

Elizabeth Swan annoys me too, by the way.  And I think Eowyn's "I am no man" was just a silly loophole, but I can't see how being happy in love makes someone less of a person, especially less of an admirable person.

 

Having children and a family is not against feminism.  Feminism was about having more than *just* a husband and family, which Eowyn certainly does.  If she gave up the throne to have babies, I might see it, but adding the challenges of a family onto the other responsibilities she has doesn't make her a non-feminist.

 

Also, I like the idea of the article and hope they accept it.  It sounds like it would be funny.

 

It's not so much that any of these characters shouldn't want to get married or have children, it's that the film reduces them from a fully realized person who's quite capable to "bun oven".  It's an exaggeration, I know.

[Rasheta Ardashir]

Kath I MUST read what you said about Padme *laughs* One of my warders is a Star Wars nut this should be hilerious.

[JenniferL]

I emailed you. But in return you must give me feedback.

[Jhaenara]

Oooo, I agree with your post 100%, Quisalas... nicely worded...  :)

 

I know this is being done in fun... I just liked Q's post because I was having the same thoughts earlier...  :D

[Barmacral]

I still think you should do the Nikki/Jessica combo from Heroes...

[JenniferL]

This isn't apparent unless you've seen the fuller version that I can't post, but Elizabeth is the only character critiqued for "settling down".  The problem with Padme, for example, is that you have this ass kicking Warrior Queen persona who is always bailing the guys out of trouble, is a leader, etc. for two movies. Then in the third movie, she gets pregnant and its like her entire personality has been surgically removed. All she does is whine and mope, until she finally just gives up and dies. But it's okay, because hormones make girls do crazy things, right?

 

But even with Elizabeth, the biggest problem isn't that she settles, it's her tokenism. She is literally the only woman available for audience identification, so the producers tried to make her as flawless as possible. Every guy has to love her, she has to be good at everything. If the Pirate movies were fanfic, her name would be the Mary Sue.

[Mystica]

what Q said! and then some.

 

Eowyn's task in the movie ended with her almost dying and recovering in the infermery. So she bonded with Faramir in there, big deal. She still stood up and ended up killing the baddest ass minion of the Dark Forces, second to Sauron himself only. One even Gandalf couldn't defeat, for all his wizard powers and renewed strength as the White Wizard.

 

If people can't see past a woman's ability to have BOTH the ability to love and be feminin ànd be strong and fierce, than that's their problem. A woman should not have to choose between those two parts of herself. She can be both.

 

The movie didn't reduce her in any way or form just by showing that she is able and capable of loving a man. She up and did her part, almost got killed for her trouble, needed a Numenorian to heal her and then needed to continue healing. That she found someone to love in the process doesn't reduce her to a whining lump of weak listening to her uterus only. It shows her in the full light of who she is. A fierce, brave, passionate woman that is capable of standing up to fight for what she loves ànd still be able to give her love to a man. A woman not needing to show how much of a 'badass' bitch she is by throwing all men aside and claiming not to need any of them just to prove how strong she is.

 

*twaps Kathana around with a uterus* hmpf....

 

 

 

Now if you want a real and valid subject, try Stepford Wives.  

[Jay Solace]

Now if you want a real and valid subject, try Stepford Wives. 

 

Yeah, but Stepford Wives has no badass women to begin with. (Or does it?)Well, Bette Midler sort of exudes an aura of badass and even the remake couldn't stop her. But still, there are no action women in Stepford wives, just action-figure women.

 

You know if token-ism is a qualification, you could go with the third Alien movie.  I can only see Ripley as legitimately bad-ass but I can't hear enough jokes made about that movie.

[Quisalas Selene]

Personally, I'm more than a little tired of the media concept that a strong woman has to be a hideous, nasty evil bitch to every man she'll ever meet.  Except possibly that one that tames her, or just becomes her whipping boy.  That they have to be insulting, demeaning, and belittling to guys doesn't make her a strong woman, it makes her a very specific bully.  And a bully shouldn't be anyone's role model.

 

I had to hold myself back from arguing with my mom the other day about the difference between sexual equality and reverse sexual discrimination.  She'd said something about all men being stupid and wrong, in response to a joke, and my husband had to talk me out of yelling at her that saying that was no different from men saying that a woman's place was in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. 

 

But I expect it will be years before anyone in the media is able to see female bullying as anything but funny and righteously deserved.

[JenniferL]

Yup, Stepford Wives doesn't fit at all in the premise of the article. That would fit into an article about "Lousy ways Hollywood tries to teach us morality". The Stepford Wives remake would be feminism, "The Day After Tomorrow" would be environmentalism, and "Crash" would be racism is bad.

 

Hmm. I may write that one later.

 

Anyways, I personally think Eowyn is a pretty good character, especially if you consider the time period she was written in and the fictional culture she comes from. Like I said, there's controversy in lit crit circles about whether or not it's a cop out for her to get married and become Mrs. Faramir at the end of the story, instead of going off and having adventures. But if you look at Tolkien's own experiences as a soldier in WWI and remove gender from the equation all together, it's actually a very respectful treatment. Young men go off to war. When the come back, they get married and have normal lives. Eowyn's gender doesn't preclude her from being allowed to lay down her sword, just like the men do.

 

The problem I have is that there's really no build up for her relationship with Faramir in the movies. We just see them exchanging significant glances with each other during Aragon's coronation. I understand that its much more significant in the books, and there's possibly a scene in the extended editions (which I don't have the patience to sit through). But in the movie I saw, it felt like they had no idea what to do with her after she killed the Witch King, so they just stuck her with some random dude to give her a happy ending.

[Quisalas Selene]

Yeah, it felt very abrupt in the movies, I'll admit.  In the extended version, it was much more beautifully touched on - it's probably the facet they improved the most with the extended footage. 

 

I don't remember what it was like in the book. :/  I lost my copy of The Return of the King when I was re-reading them about 4 years ago, so the last time I read the whole book was about 15 years ago.

[Jay Solace]

Personally, I'm more than a little tired of the media concept that a strong woman has to be a hideous, nasty evil bitch to every man she'll ever meet.  Except possibly that one that tames her, or just becomes her whipping boy.  That they have to be insulting, demeaning, and belittling to guys doesn't make her a strong woman, it makes her a very specific bully.  And a bully shouldn't be anyone's role model.

 

I righteously deserve all of my female bullying and I demand more boys of the whipping variety in media! Moar whipping!

 

I haven't seen good whippage since, gee, I think it was Batman 2 (not the Dark Knight Returns but the one with the Penguin.) Y'know, maybe Catwoman would work as a faux badass.  I mean, yes, she spanks Batman and kills Christopher Walkin (for which, I think ,the Cinema Gods place your visage among the heavens) but she also has an apartment full of cats.  And her weapons are props to titillate oddball fan-boys.

 

>_>

[JenniferL]

YES! She's perfect! Thank you.

 

I was actually stuck on my last example, and the deadline for submissions this week is tonight.  I can write about how she's a fem fatal stock character and her threatening sexuality. Yay!

[Quisalas Selene]

Who all do you have in your list now?

[JenniferL]

Elizabeth Swan

Eowyn

River Tam

Padme

Niobe

 

 

And now Catwoman.

 

Ideas I've tried and discarded are Wonderwoman, Hermione and Xena.

 

[Quisalas Selene]

I have no idea who Niobe is, did you say she was from Matrix?  Is she... Trinity, or whatever?

 

What about the chick with the machine gun leg in Grindhouse?  I expected her to be so much more cooler than she was.

 

I demand more boys

 

*peers at Jay and raises her eyebrows*  I could have sworn your wife said you were straight...

[Jhaenara]

Niobe was Jada Pinkett-Smith's character...

[Jay Solace]

*peers at Jay and raises her eyebrows*  I could have sworn your wife said you were straight...

 

She lies! I'm totally gay for women.

 

Also...

 

YES! She's perfect! Thank you.

 

I was actually stuck on my last example, and the deadline for submissions this week is tonight.  I can write about how she's a fem fatal stock character and her threatening sexuality. Yay!

 

I am very happy I could help.  :D

 

Anything to get someone to type the words "threatening sexuality."  ;)