Where do warders stand?

[wconn1979]

I would think it was more in the way the flows are weaved in the bonding.  Logains Bonding is probably a lot diffrent weave than the AS/Warder bond which allows one channeler to compel another.

 

I dont really know but this is what seems most likely to me. 

 

There are multiple ways to bond someone as evident by the way elayne/min/avi bonded rand.

[42Bonzo88]

    Go with me on this one because I don't know myself if it's going to make sense (like most of what I write, I think it, but it doesn't come out on paper the same) :D

 

    I know the red sisters that Logain took for warders were done against thier will. And obviously Alanna and Rand the same way. We know that both Logain and Rand are two of the most powerful Aes Sedai ever, if one of the Black Tower took a more powerful Aes Sedai would the one with the most power be the controller (like Rand and Logain) or not?

[Guest Dreadlord]

If youre talking about the Compulsion bond the Ashaman have ben using then it would be the Ashaman I would have thought, although we dont know if there are ways to counter Compulsion.

 

If youre talking about being bonded as in using the normal Warder bond, then it would be a matter of strength of character, since the normal Warder bond doesnt grant definite control over their Warder

[trakand_01]

For example if they COULD, then I doubt Elyas would have survived so long -  Rina would have made him return.

 

The biggest example of 'compulsion-type activity' in a warder that I personally have perceived, was when Lan's bond snapped, and switched to Myrelle. He upped sticks and rode to her like a man possessed (as he probably was). If he'd WANTED to stay with Nynaeve, surely he could have done?

[wconn1979]

For example if they COULD, then I doubt Elyas would have survived so long -  Rina would have made him return.

 

The biggest example of 'compulsion-type activity' in a warder that I personally have perceived, was when Lan's bond snapped, and switched to Myrelle. He upped sticks and rode to her like a man possessed (as he probably was). If he'd WANTED to stay with Nynaeve, surely he could have done?

 

Yeah, there is no way Myrelle is stronger of character than Lan IMHO

[RAND AL THOR]

Lan was no where near Nynaeve when the bond snapped. After Egwene informs him of Nynaeve's location, he immediately sets off to find her, regardless of Myrelle.

[Elgee]

Lan was no where near Nynaeve when the bond snapped. After Egwene informs him of Nynaeve's location, he immediately sets off to find her, regardless of Myrelle.

 

That does not negate the fact that he was compelled to go to Myrelle.

[Silver]

I think they're just using 2 different weaves. The bonding Asha'man do seem to have compulsion built in, and a very strong one. Can't be sure since it's not from Logain's POV but when he tells his Sedai what they can and can't do they HAVE to follow, and we can't be sure if it needs a weave to activate the compulsion.

 

For Sedai, their compulsion seems a lot weaker, more like a strong suggestion. When Lan joined Meyrelle, she noted that she had to be careful or he would know what she was doing and snap. Plus the compulsion itself is "optional", requiring weaving on the warder to activate it.

[RAND AL THOR]

Lan was no where near Nynaeve when the bond snapped. After Egwene informs him of Nynaeve's location, he immediately sets off to find her, regardless of Myrelle.

 

That does not negate the fact that he was compelled to go to Myrelle.

 

Was he really compelled? I was assuming that Lan could sense Myrelle and knew he had to go to her. It seems unlikely that compulsion, even via the bond, could stretch over so great a distance.

 

I'm not sure though. He did leave in a hurry so maybe compulsion WAS involved.

[Elgee]

FoH, Chapter 53 - Lan to Rand after Moiraine dies:

 

"I am you friend, Rand. But I cannot stay." Lan swung up into his saddle. "Moiraine did something to me that has not been done in hundreds of years, not since the time when Aes Sedai still sometimes bonded a Warder whether he wanted it or not. She altered my bond so it passed to another when she died. Now I must find that other, become one of her Warders. I am one, already. I can feel her faintly, somewhere far to the west, and she can feel me. I must go, Rand. It is part of what Moiraine did. She said she would not allow me time to die avenging her."

 

It would seem that compulsion does NOT form part of the normal bond, as done now by Aes Sedai.

[trakand_01]

Lan was no where near Nynaeve when the bond snapped. After Egwene informs him of Nynaeve's location, he immediately sets off to find her, regardless of Myrelle.

 

It was Myrelle's wish (at Egwene's suggestion) that he went to Nynaeve - it wasnt something he did fully of his own accord. Egwene suggested to Myrelle that what he needed was Nynaeve. Myrelle agreed and so Egwene told him where Nynaeve was.

 

Who knows what would / could have happened if Myrelle had said no.

[wconn1979]

Compulsion WAS and is part of the AS/Warder bond, as soon as Lans Bond to Moiraine snaped Lan was Compeled to go to Myrelle straight as an arrow.  He did not waiver from his path for anything he cut through anyone who got in his way and only stoped when he was too exhausted to carry on and started again as soon as he could until he found her.

[42Bonzo88]

    I think Egwene could see what Lan wouldn't or couldn't that Myrelle was  not strong enough to contain Lan. First Myrelle already had at least two warders (again fuzzy on the brain part) and having to deal with their emotional state and then get Lan who isn't thinking to clearly right then. Second, Lan himself would be like putting a full grown Mountain wolf in a cage and telling him to play nice.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Compulsion WAS and is part of the AS/Warder bond, as soon as Lans Bond to Moiraine snaped Lan was Compeled to go to Myrelle straight as an arrow.  He did not waiver from his path for anything he cut through anyone who got in his way and only stoped when he was too exhausted to carry on and started again as soon as he could until he found her.

UNQUOTE

 

The Aes Sedai-Warder is NOT a Compulsion bond. A common affect of that bond snapping is suicidal depression, which is what Lan suffered from-he had lost the will to live. Him not wavering from the path to his new Aes Sedai, and cutting through anything in his way, reflects his frame of mind rather than being Compelled with the Power. He went because it is his duty, and Lan is one who views his duty similar to how Rand does.

 

The Aes Sedai-Warder bond is definitely not a Compulsion bond. If it was, then how do you explain why Elyas isnt with his Aes Sedai? Why isnt Rand Compelled to go to Alanna? (Rand can be excused from Compulsion if you throw in teh Ta'veren card, so scratch him off if you want, it doesnt lessen my rightness) and why the hell does Birgitte act the way she does towards Elayne if the Aes Sedai-Warder includes Compulsion? Compulsion works on command, Lan would have had to hear Myrelle actually say "Come to me" for it to work anyway.

 

It is only the Ashaman-Aes Sedai bond that is a Compulsion bond.

[DemandredFO]

I think there is some compulsion involved in the Warder-bond but only a little and used at great need.  While holding Saidin one CANNOT BE COMPELLED.  I don't know about when not holding saidin.  Holding saidar you can be compelled.  As far as Elyas goes I would think even if Rina tried the wolves protect him and by extention I think they would protect Perrin.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Normal Warders cant channel. The normal Warder bond doesnt include Compulsion, no two ways about it. Otherwise, there wouldnt have been as much surprise when the Ashaman-Aes Sedai bond included Compulsion.

 

Normal Warders are not Compelled by the bond. Not at all. They do what the Aes Sedai says because it is their duty, not because they physically have to do what they say. You really are getting mixed up between the normal Warder bond and the Ashamans version

[Lemno]

I always asumed men became warders for the same reason people join the military of nations with long records of peace: The training, the lifestyle and the feeling of duty and honour.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Indeed, and I reckon the training will be the main one-being trained by the best, so you will become one of the best. And as mentioned earlier some Warders will have personal reasons to join the fight against Shadowspawn, like Lan; he would be a king if it wasnt for the Blight

[Lemno]

Then again, personal reasons like Lan only exist for Borderlanders. Most of the warders being described are from all nations.

 

Also what we are overlooking perhaps: Everyone needs to eat and in order to eat you need a job. And whats is a warder but the best merchant guard in the world?

[RAND AL THOR]

Merchant guards are not active 24/7/365/whole-lifetime.

 

If they are working for payment, they should be paid the max salary in Randland. Instead they are always overworked and receive insufficient rest (they don't even sleep completely. They get up at the slightest sound). They have no life of their own, will never have a family (Exception greens) and etc etc.....practically they are living robots.

[Lemno]

Complete dedication to their work could be said of todays top soldiers like SAS or commando's (or whatever are the best ones as it is) as well. Still they don't make the big money.

 

Hmm, come to think of it the people who make the big money are the blackwater/private people aka: merchant guards  :)

[RAND AL THOR]

Their dedication can sometimes be annoying because their AS don't deserve to have such a dedicated Warder.

[Asmo]

The Warder bond utilizes something akin to Compulsion, although, more like Verin's version of Compulsion - it works, but only if the Warder actually wants to obey the Aes Sedai. Exceptions:

 

Rand, because he didn't really want to do what Allana said, plus, he is a channeler and holding the Source offers protection from Compulsion.

 

Birgitte, because apparently a female-to-female bond is more equal than one-sided - Elayne and Birgitte mirror each other in most aspects, and Elayne can't force Birgitte to do what she wants. Moreover, Elayne might not even know how to Compel with the bond.

 

Bonded Aes Sedai. For those, it's pure Compulsion - they must do what their Asha'man tells them.

 

Elyas. Perhaps being a wolfbrother offers something like resistance to Compulsion. Or maybe he just ran off beyond Compulsion range.

 

Why do I claim that the Warder bond includes a mild form of Compulsion? Because it was stated to be thus.

[Mr Ares]

would the one with the most power be the controller (like Rand and Logain) or not?

No. The Bond is one sided in this respect - the bond-holder is always the one in control. However, if the bondee is sufficiently strong, the level of control becomes virtually nil. But the bond itself will not grant the "Warder" any control.

[Asmo]

As a side note - it is noted that being bonded as a Warder offers increased resistance to wounds and more stamina and endurance. Maybe that would be incentive enough for someone to be bonded as a Warder.