Morgase and Elayne

[DemandredFO]

I regard Morgase as more of a spoiled brat then Elayne.  Elayne at least has the excuse of being a teenager.  Morgase is no longer the queen but she acts as if she still is and she deliberately taunts Tallanvour.  Elayne is a teenager, she will learn I am sure; Morgase has no excuse.  Give Elayne a break.

[Corbett]

Again I am stunned, another person who doesnt have a passionate dislike for all female characters of WoT. Bravo

[RAND AL THOR]

People who love Mat are going to hate Egwene/Nynaeve/Elayne.

 

Since I don't love Mat any more than the other characters, I don't mind most of the female charaters-despite the fact that many are unrealistic.

 

And demandredfo:

Having been a queen your entire life and then becoming a servant is going to be pretty hard to accept. I don't blame Morgase that she is having trouble accepting her current life.

Tallanvor is very young compared to her. But if he wants her bed.....I wonder why she refuses. She'll submit eventually.

[Dedicated Santana]

bravo al'thor, couldn't have said it better myself

 

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Tallanvor is very young compared to her. But if he wants her bed.....I wonder why she refuses. She'll submit eventually.

Uhhhh.... I believe it has something to do with a thing called choice.

 

As you yourself mentioned in your post, she's struggling to adjust. She was in a loveless marriage and now she's having feelings for a younfg soldier. All a bit of a shock to the system.

[RAND AL THOR]

Tallanvor is very young compared to her. But if he wants her bed.....I wonder why she refuses. She'll submit eventually.

Uhhhh.... I believe it has something to do with a thing called choice.

 

As you yourself mentioned in your post, she's struggling to adjust. She was in a loveless marriage and now she's having feelings for a younfg soldier. All a bit of a shock to the system.

 

Well yes, but she's practically on flames when he is just near her so I would have expected some submission by now. But she is still adjusting I guess.-the Light send that she doesn't spend the next 20 yrs adjusting!

[Elgee]

Well yes, but she's practically on flames when he is just near her so I would have expected some submission by now. But she is still adjusting I guess.-the Light send that she doesn't spend the next 20 yrs adjusting!

 

I'm presuming that was just a slip of the "tongue", Rattie ?  :P

 

Though I must agree: I don't quite get what her reluctance is all about. But then, I find most of the romances in WoT implausible.

[Ahaz Flagg]

I regard Morgase as more of a spoiled brat then Elayne.  Elayne at least has the excuse of being a teenager.  Morgase is no longer the queen but she acts as if she still is and she deliberately taunts Tallanvour.  Elayne is a teenager, she will learn I am sure; Morgase has no excuse.  Give Elayne a break.

 

I beg to disagree, Morgase has always been held in high reguard by all who know her, until the little issue with the Chosen.  Thom calls Morgase one of the best leaders in randland, and almost everyone respects her, this is not someone who is selfish and spoiled.  Since her world is upside down, she has certianly had issues but any leader in her spot would have the same.

 

Elyane on the other hand is in her 20's, she has been raised Aes Sedai and is the queen in waiting, and yet she is still the same spoined brat that she was when we 1st met her, if she has not grown up knowing her responsiblities she never will.  Egwene who I dislike 10 times more than Elayne has at least grown up, even Nynaeve who was nothing but a 26 year old toddler is at least starting to see how childish she truly was.  Elayne is a brat, and very spoiled brat at that.

[anamul]

People who love Mat are going to hate Egwene/Nynaeve/Elayne.

 

I disagree. I hate Egwene mainly because of her attitude towards Rand. I hate Gwyn may be a whisker less than her. So they are a perfect match.

 

Corbett

There is some reader who doesn't hate all the WOT female character. I only hate Egwene.

 

On the contrary, in the list of my favorite WOT character, most of them are female.

 

Like:

Rand

Aviendha

Moiraine

Min farshaw

Melaine

Mat

Sulin

Alivia.....

 

So as you can see Mat is quite down the list and some Male character like Perrin isn't in my list at all.

As for hating Egwene, I never realized in my whole life I would hate any books character so much. Bravo RJ.

[RAND AL THOR]

People who love Mat are going to hate Egwene/Nynaeve/Elayne.

I disagree. I hate Egwene mainly because of her attitude towards Rand.

 

You misunderstand.

Most people who like Mat generally dislike the female trio due to their attitude towards him. I did NOT say that the ONLY reason for disliking the trio is liking mat.

 

But this post isn't about that so I would advise this topic to be dropped now. Let's stick to the matter at hand.

[RAND AL THOR]

Well yes, but she's practically on flames when he is just near her so I would have expected some submission by now. But she is still adjusting I guess.-the Light send that she doesn't spend the next 20 yrs adjusting!

 

I'm presuming that was just a slip of the "tongue", Rattie ?  :P

 

Hmm perhaps...though Morgase doesnt strike as the type. ;D

[anamul]

Most people who love Mat...will sum up pretty much everyone who may hate the trio. I mean who doesn't like Mat?

 

But I doubt their attitude towards Mat is the only reason.Hell, they have been antagonising most of the WOT reader in almost everybook.

 

UMMMM...HMMM...Morgasse and Elayne...

Morgasse is far better woman than Elayne. If for nothing else, I haven't forgiven Elayne for her" oh Rand might be looking at other women, why shouldn't I flirt with Thom(whom if by through sexual relationship to her mother may be considered as her step father)."

 

Plain disgusting. And she claimed to love Rand. Well, Nynave on the other hand didn't handle the matter properly either.All she needed to say was:

 

"Well, if you want to cuddle with Thom then by all means do so. Just do me a favor and don't ever ask me to deliver your love message to Rand.Dump Rand, forget about him."

 

;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Thats what I would have said to anyone acting that way.

 

As for Egwene, I have been off topic before, but never touched a nerve before.

::)

 

Hmm, interesting.I have to make a signature,Wanting Egwene's death and declaring undying hatred.

 

:D :D

[RAND AL THOR]

anamul, you must really hate my signature!!! ;D ;D ;D

 

Sorry for the spam guys!

[anamul]

anamul, you must really hate my signature!!! ;D ;D ;D

 

Sorry for the spam guys!

 

I don't. I was just wondering if you were agitated by my usual anti Egwene slogan, which I must admit I post most of the time despite the threads actual subject.I am sure people are annoyed by it. But hey, RJ have been annoying me with Egwene from the start of the series.So I am taking it out on the good folks of this forum.

;D ;D ;D ;D

 

As for "spam"....it is considered normal sometime.Otherwise a thread will become boring.

[Elgee]

For the record: I love Mat - he's one of my favourite characters, and I don't like Nyn or Elaine much, but I've never seen anyone comment on here about Mat's incredibly patronising attitude towards the girls.

 

Anamul: I think if there's still anyone around who DOESN'T know that you hate Egwene, they're probably deaf and blind. I think we all get it, ok?

 

As for the topic of this thread: Morgase is ok, in my book. She's been through a lot, she's far from a perfect woman, but she seems to try her best. Elayne, on the other hand, is a spoilt little brat who doesn't seem to grow up. She does have brains, and she does apply them sometimes, but I think I'm basing my irritation with her on the whole "flirting with Thom" thing, and my absolute pet hate: the way she got those Sisters killed by thinking she's invincible and can take on the BA with no other help. What really got my goat was her thought that their lives were worth losing, for capturing/killing those BA.  I just wanted to scream: they wouldn't have died if you'd used your brains, you stupid git!

 

Just my personal feelings on the matter  ;D

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Well yes, but she's practically on flames when he is just near her so I would have expected some submission by now. But she is still adjusting I guess.-the Light send that she doesn't spend the next 20 yrs adjusting!

But that's just it. Morgase won't submit. It'll have to be a meeting of equals. Given that she used to be queen of one of the strongest states in the world ... That'll take time.

 

I'd see it as a bit of kop out is BS just wrote something that shows Morgase just swooning one day and heading off to the nearest room with Tallanvor in tow.

[RAND AL THOR]

Well yes, but she's practically on flames when he is just near her so I would have expected some submission by now. But she is still adjusting I guess.-the Light send that she doesn't spend the next 20 yrs adjusting!

But that's just it. Morgase won't submit. It'll have to be a meeting of equals. Given that she used to be queen of one of the strongest states in the world ... That'll take time.

 

I'd see it as a bit of kop out is BS just wrote something that shows Morgase just swooning one day and heading off to the nearest room with Tallanvor in tow.

 

Then perhaps Tallanvor will do to Morgase what Avi did to Rand in the igloo.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Elayne, on the other hand, is a spoilt little brat who doesn't seem to grow up. She does have brains, and she does apply them sometimes, but I think I'm basing my irritation with her on the whole "flirting with Thom" thing, and my absolute pet hate: the way she got those Sisters killed by thinking she's invincible and can take on the BA with no other help. What really got my goat was her thought that their lives were worth losing, for capturing/killing those BA.  I just wanted to scream: they wouldn't have died if you'd used your brains, you stupid git!

 

Just my personal feelings on the matter  ;D

 

I'm just wondering how you get that Elayne was "flirting" with Thom?

 

When they first met, she didn't remember him, but she kinda did.  There was something familiar about him, she just couldn't put her finger on it.  Then, subconsciously, she began to interact with him in ways similar to when she was a a small girl and Thom was the closest thing she knew to a father.  After awhile of that, more and more of her childhood memories began to surface, and in the end, she figured out who he was and why he was familiar.

 

Nothing flirtatious about it.  Just a young woman recovering memories she'd temporarily forgotten and reconnecting with someone who'd been very important to her.  No matter how it may have appeared to any outside observer who didn't know their history.

[Mysterious]

Off the top of my head I'm pretty sure she was flirting with Thom and on another occassion she was contemplating going to bed with a male servant (I think) at the tavern where they were staying in Tanchico.

 

I won't presume to judge her thoughts because she did not act on them and the fact that her parting from Rand was not as "lovey-dovey" as she hoped it would be.

 

 

 

Mysterious

[Asmo]

I dislike Elayne. She is overconfident and gets other in dire trouble due to that. She expects others to obey her because of what she is or what she can do, not what she actually does. She is dependent on others for her happiness and self-contentment. She thinks noone has a right to guide her when she is making foolish decisions, and takes advantage of every occasion to make others do as she wants, even when they might know better. She expects life to hand everything to her on the plate, and chewed on to boot - she thinks she has the only valid claim on Andor and Rand was wrong in usurping the throne and trying to give it to her, when without Rand Andor would be a lair of Shadowspawn. She pretends to at least partially follow ji'e'toh but never actually fulfills her debts on anyone. In short, she acts like a Queen when she has no right to be one, and her abilities as one are limited to politics.

 

Morgase, on the other hand, was one of the strongest rulers in the Westlands, one of those who even managed to keep Aes Sedai influence in check - somewhat. She ruled fairly but with an iron grip, and was loved and appreciated for what she did as Queen. Being Compelled by Rahvin, something which she could do nothing about no matter how you look at it, resulted in her being demoted, captured, almost executed more than once and subsequently captured again, none of which was really her fault. I can't fathom how anyone can dislike her for refusing to have an affair with Tallanvor, which is completely her right. If Tallanvor wants to turn himself into a rag for her to step on, that's not really her fault either.

[RAND AL THOR]

Elayne, on the other hand, is a spoilt little brat who doesn't seem to grow up. She does have brains, and she does apply them sometimes, but I think I'm basing my irritation with her on the whole "flirting with Thom" thing, and my absolute pet hate: the way she got those Sisters killed by thinking she's invincible and can take on the BA with no other help. What really got my goat was her thought that their lives were worth losing, for capturing/killing those BA.  I just wanted to scream: they wouldn't have died if you'd used your brains, you stupid git!

 

Just my personal feelings on the matter  ;D

 

I'm just wondering how you get that Elayne was "flirting" with Thom?

 

Throught FOH she flirts with Thom. Nynaeve especially notes this. I will get some quotes soon.

[Mysterious]

I'm more interested on how Elayne will "try" to deal with a resurgent Manetheren. (Note: "try")

 

We've seen both Morgase's and Elayne's reaction to the Red Eagle and it wasn't actively positive on either POV.

 

Elayne's liable to piss of all three ta'veren in the process. While Rand might give her some leeway (doubtful), Lews Therin's influence and his underlying loyalty to the Two Rivers will most likely cause him to be neutral in any actions taken.

 

Mat, Perrin and Faile on the other hand will come down on her like a hammer of bricks. Perrin I believe will be polite but won't yield an inch while Mat will probably start swearing at her in the Old Tongue and call in her toh. Say want you want about Faile, but she's a ruthless bitch when it comes to protecting what she believes is "hers".

 

 

 

 

Mysterious

[anamul]

While, I agree with other that Morgasse have a better personality than Elyane, I don't agree whole heartedly on other terms. She is as spoiled as any noble has a right to be and in a good way. Consider other noble's. The likes of Arymila, Elenia or what-ever their name is.

 

Yes, she is over confident, but she will learn in time.

 

As for Manetheren, Mat has no right there. He refused to show up in Shadow rising to help his fellow villager. All because of what? That his mother might not let him leave two-river again? Despite being Taveren?He was in less risk than Perrin was. He wasn't black listed in COL book.

 

Perrin isn't going to raise Manetheren. And Fail has no right in this part either. Her involvement may very well become catastrophic. She is a Saldean and Andora'n doesn't like outsider influence in their soil. Whole Andor will rise against Faile, if they interprete her involvement as "Saldean Conspiracy to have a bit from Anodor". They didn't even tolerated Rand. And what is Fail compared to Rand? "Dust in the wind". Beside, faile will probably be busy ruling Saldea. I have a feeling that Tenobia isn't going to make it through Termon Gaidon.

 

Beside, Elayne will have Cairhein as well. So how strong she will become??May be the strongest queen of Andor. And if Rand stay neutral on Manethran issue, who can stand against her? Consider the White tower, consider whole might of Andor and consider Cairhein. She will have all three on her beck and call.

 

Nope, Manetheren won't rise again. With Perrin's reluctance and Elayne as stubborn as she is, I don't see any hope of raising Manetheren again.Mat's involvment will even be less tolerated due to his Seanchan connection. People may decide to burn him alive.Not every one including Rand, Ashaman and White

tower is moon eyed over "Tuons Charm".

 

-----------------------

Death to Egwene, oh God please deliver me from Egwene.

 

 

[anamul]

On a shorter note: Elayne will be or already is the most Strogest Monarch on this side of Aryth Ocean. Kind of reminds me of Queen of England at 17-19 century.

[Elgee]

A quick question/note: Didn't Perin promise the Seanchan not to try and raise ancient Manetheran (sp?) in exchange for their help in freeing Faile?