Game theory from the mod pov

[Alys Kinch]

I wanted to run a limited discussion about Mod points of view. I suppose I forsee several ways this can degenerate, but as long as it stays on a game theory for mods, i don't care.

 

My specific question, to start, is:

When you mod, do you have trouble not picking favorites?  Or do you know which side you would most like to see win?

 

For me, it's kind of weird... I know that the innocents have the hardest time winning because the evils are able to strategize, so when it looks like they are going to win for a change, I get excited.

 

On the other hand, there is something so... completely enthralling about watching the evils take another victory.

 

I can never chose a favorite because of the excitement of what's going on behind the scenes... O.k. well, excitement when I am not waiting for things to happen... such as night actions.  ::)

 

Anyone else?

[Barmacral]

Occasionally I'll pick somebody to be on a side that I think would make the game more interesting, but I do try to balance it as much as possible. For the most part, roles are picked at random.

 

A case where roles weren't entirely random though, was in Corner Pub. I made sure Lara and the Dude had roles, being as both of them hadn't played mafia in a long while, so I wanted to give them something to keep them interested. Jelly was deliberately picked as finder, as I wanted to give her a role she hadn't used before, give her something extra to think about in mafia, help her develop that potential. Much the same with Blig and the symp role.

 

Luthine being assigned to the mafia team was entirely random, same with Nae. However, it turned out to be a genius move, putting Luthine on the mafia side. She's a player that'll be scaring me if she's not on my team in the future.

 

As for the rest of you in that game, well, you all got the short end of the straw.

 

Insofar as picking people for roles, I do try to avoid favouritism, and although I might pick a person specifically for a role, its not just cause I like them and know they like that role. I've usually got something in mind, like counterbalancing another role in the game or something. I try to do a random selection first though, before tweaking things. And I very rarely ever take somebody out of a role after I've put them in one. In fact, I don't think I've ever done that.

[Daetirion]

I've tried picking and i don't really like doing it as i know im going to be biased one way or

another  :-\

 

Having said that, assigning them randomly runs into the issue of inactivity, and its far harder to contemplate switching out and getting replacements especially if the roles are linked. I'm thinking especially Lovers being an issue here, as it works better if both halves actually post.

 

Definately agree with picking certain people for roles within Newbie mafia if there are lots of Newbies, just to give each side a fighting chance.

 

Having said that, its quite clear that quite often those who end up with some roles randomly turn up gold in the actual game - i'm thinking of Jelly for Mafia ('Vote for me'), Luthine as Mafia and a number of others.

 

So yeah i agree. Roles should be random as much as possible, picking specifics to tweak balance (Although this can be done with odd roles). Oh and i totally understand your frustration at waiting for Night Actions - i get frustrated! Just because i want to know whats going to happen next and see the reactions >.>

 

[MsDanya]

well, I havent modded a game in ages, but anyways. I agree with Barms, some players fit some roles I think. it should mostly be random, but its very understandable when it isnt.

 

I'll answer the other question when i've modded more games. but i'd think I would have favourites, not that it would affect the game as a whole, but some people or groups of people are very interesting to watch. I generally want the evil side to win, but only because I had a really long streak of being only evil (6 or 7 games I think). maybe because they are so few, and they can really fix their playingstyle to the rest of the game. I dunno, I think those are the most fun to play at least. lol

[DPR]

 

This is like - my favorite thread of all time. ;D

 

And let me begin by saying that I am a huge fan of the after-game discussion of moves, tactics, etc. And of showing links to the mafia wiki, and of anything else that helps players learn how to be better players! The more skilled players there are, the more exciting the games are!

 

Now, inactivity iis the enemy. It is a game, and it is supposed to be fun, so you have to llok at factors like the pace that the game moves at, lulls waiting for night, and groups of players not knowing what to do next and possible getting frustrated by more experienced players.

 

So, I think that you absolutely have to use the random system and announce that you have, just to keep it fair. You don't want people to keep being dispointed by not getting a role, and you don't wnat to become predictable - as in "Kill Alys first, she's always evil." So, you have to spred the love, so to speak.

 

I do find that some players are more given to playing up certain roles. Serial Killers and solo win roles are tough if you are new. So, I've started by asking people if they are cool to take the role on, and then I offer limited advice on what I would do with the role. But all decisions are up to them. And if it's an experienced player, they are on their own.

 

Keeping the game moving and keepiing it exciting are tough sometimes. The fast mafia was an experiment to see what would happen if there was no waiting and no dying, and it's good to a degree, but then not everybody is as active as others so it is still not exactly balanced.

 

In the Suras games, I threw in thief actions, hunts for magic stoens that gave you powers, and moral dilemma's, just to keep it interesting. But it's a fine line between keeping it a mafia game and turing it into a multi player RPG.

 

I gotta run, but I'll be back. I love this stuff!

 

 

 

[Alys Kinch]

i love you, wes. :P

 

i think it's a great idea for all mods to be open to suggesting what players could do with a role, but only if players ask.

[DPR]

 

Why did I get the tongue-out-smiley?  Sheesh...

[Alys Kinch]

because i was laughing when i wrote that? because i don't want you to think it's the kind of love that would cause me to come steal you from your wife? <_< what?? i wouldn't!

[DPR]

 

You might not have to. If I spend much more time on DM this morning, you could probably pick me up for the five bucks I tried to bribe you with on the other thread. Gotta go!

[Alys Kinch]

quit tempting your wife to leave you! you being single could cause worldwide catastrophe in the form of ww3.  :o

[loki redfern]

i would have thought it to be more similar to a gold rush

[Alys Kinch]

it's women fighting that we are talking about... you do know how vicious they are, right??

[loki redfern]

..is this one of the directions you thought this thread was going to take?

 

i think you all have fiddlesdral

[Alys Kinch]

ok... so no more spam. sorry. bad moderator, bad!

[Daetirion]

Mods = the biggest spammers in Mafia

 

and you know im looking at you pair Barmys...

 

((and i think Nae deserves a mention - but we like her really ^^,))

[Guest Far Dareis Mai]

For me, the ONLY thing I don't randomize is who is innocent, and who is mafia. There is too much risk of an imbalance there, and then the game just isn't any fun. We all typically know who falls into inactivity, as they are pretty consistent, so I give a mix when possible, and the same goes with experience on both sides.

 

As far as roles go, I always make them random (except in one instance *coughBarmcough*), because I know that I would indeed play favorites, and it's a little too Goddess on Mount Olympus playing with her game pawns for me.

 

As for who I want to win...well, as I said before--I really make it my priority to balance out innocent players vs. mafia, so I look forward to either winning. My biggest annoyance is when roled players don't use their roles. In one of my games the Finder (despite being active!) only used his role once, and that made me pretty upset. But I'm also the kind of person to let fate fall where it will, so if I give something to someone, so long as they are active, I'll let them do what they will with it.

[Talya]

Great thread!

 

I have to say I choose all my roles including the onnocents and mafia randomly. Only after that if I think it maybe unfair (too many experienced on one side) then I may intervene. Occassionly I have given roles to people, but it's something I like doing.

 

As A Mod I do like to see the evils win...okay I can't help it, however I would never let it influence anything I do or advice I would give in the game. I also like the evils, because when everytime I have played an evil, the team has won, except for the first ever game I played, and I was out played by none other than Sira..*takes her hat off*

 

In fact I have been evil in the last 4 games I have played...Are you guys trying to tell me something! ;)

 

I would agree the hardest part is to keep everyone interested, I think if you have certain players they do keep it going. It is unfortunate that some people are not so active in the games. Also there  needs to be consistency from the Mod at all times, and if they keep on top of what is going on then the game can run a lot smoother. Updating voting etc is one of them. I think people get fed up having to search through pages and pages to workout who has voted for who. And at the lynch again putting that onfo down helps the game also. I think it's the little things sometimes that make it easier and more interesting for the players, especially on these normal type of games (not the Suras games those are a completely different kettle of fish).

[Barmacral]

FDM, I was amazed that you remembered to make me that role. Needless to say, I love you forever for that game.

[Kivam]

One thing I will say - be careful how much you power up the innocents.  Giving a single finder the ability to see both role and alignment is a very very very powerful weapon

[Alys Kinch]

that is based on what the mafia is capable of, in my opinion.

[Alys Kinch]

Necro again. These help, DPR?

[LilyElizabeth]

Thanks for finding this, Alys. I enjoyed reading it. In my last game, the Disney one, I decided most roles randomly. I created a few roles from scratch and apparently had a particular person in mind, because it just wouldn't go to anyone else. (Verb made a fantastic ninja!) What was weird to me is all of my bondeds but one ended up mafia. You would have thought I would have favored that team, but no. I had two brand-newbies playing the Neighborhood Watch team with an added power each that they needed to combine to use effectively. I did everything for those two but give them the answers, I swear. I was really rooting for them at first, till they found their feet, and boy did they!  :P But I ended up wanting EVERYONE to win, which isn't possible, I know.

 

That game (30 players - all roled) was a learning experience for me in countless ways!