Mat's eye

[Trib4l]

You mean Taim isn't Demandred?!?

[Luckers]

Sure he is. At one stage, he moved his foot. You don't get better proof then that.

[gubiaj]

Perhaps Mat giving up half the light of the world has nothing to do with his eye. The eye could just be connected to the Finns, while giving up half the light of the world is connected to Tarmon Gai'don. And maybe the "light of the world" is the One Power, and Mat has to choose between men or women never being able to channel again.

[Luckers]

That seems doubtful...

[Elder Heron]

Hi all-

 

I've been lurking forever, and had to finally post something here. My first post, Hurray!

 

Anyway, my point. In response to Gubiaj and Eldar89, I think you are on to something when you say it may not be an eye that is referred to in this particular phrase (give up half the light of the world to save the world). There is a lot of imagery about Mat losing an eye, but what if this quote in particular is referring to something different? This quote is much more obtuse than visons of Mat placing his eye on a scale, etc.

 

I also was thinking of 1/2 the Power for a bit (mostly because the EYE of the World was a reservoir of the Power), but I thought of something else also. Mat must give up half the light of the world to save it. What lights the world? The sun and the moon. Not exactly half & half, I know. I'm neglecting the stars, fireflies, and certain light-generating bacteria... but the sun and the moon are the major sources of light. Mat just married the "daughter of the nine MOONS". What if giving up half the light of the world was giving up Tuon?

 

I'm not sure if anyone has floted this idea before. It struck me out of nowhere one day...

 

Thanks!

[bratr]

nice idea,

[Kadere]

It's a nice idea and all, but really it's pretty slim. We don't have any dreams, prophecies, visions, foretellings, or anything to even hint at the possiblity of Mat losing Tuon besides a twisting of words in the Finn foretelling. On the other hand we have Min's vision and Egwene's dream showing Mat losing an eye. Somehow he will lose an eye or something representing an eye. Then you throw in the fact that the Finns see through his eyes, and it almost seems to seal the deal. The truth is we don't really know, he may in fact lose Tuon despite the fact that she has so much more to do in the story. I however don't see him losing her in a bargian with the Finns. How would that work? Tuon is in Ebou Dar, Mat will soon be heading for the Tower of Ghenji, unless the Finn are going to manipulate things outside their realm, I don't see them having that power. Plus, Mat HATES, and I mean HATES to watch women die. He's trying to save Moriaine, he's not going to sacrifice his wife for her, he'd much rather sacrifice his eye, or his luck, or his juggling ability, or his sense of humor.

 

It's a very romantic idea, but don't confuse Mat with Perrin, if Mat lost his wife, he'd drink a beer and dance with a new girl, he wouldn't go psycho depressive over it.

[cadsuane_2000]

I've always thought that his losing half the light of the world to save the world was not his losing an eye, but his losing or giving up something tha is the light of his world; somehing precious.I firmly believe that it is Tuon that he will have to sacrifice...either his relationship to her or his ties to the Seanchan as the Prince of Ravens.There is something about his ring, his medallion and his connection to the Seanchan.One is for the fight with the Golem and for deflecting the power if aimed at him.But the ring has the fox scattering the ravens and that to me means that he will destroy them as they are now and the only way to do that is to sever the head the focus of their power...and that is Tuon.

[Kadere]

First off the saying is "half the light of THE world" not HIS world. Second nothing except for a scewed look at that prophecy even hints at Mat losing his rank as the Prince of Ravens or as Tuon's husband. All the dreams of Egwene, dreams of Perrin, and viewings of Min never once hint at that. Third, it would be fairly stupid of RJ to finally make Mat Tuon's husband in the second to last book, at the very end of the book, only to take that away before it can be used to any significance. You're right that he will "scatter" the Seanchan, in fact he already has begun, but he doesn't have to kill Tuon for that. He's already convienced her that what the Seanchan are doing isn't helping anything, and she's already begun to turn them to allies of Rand. Plus you have the dreams of them coming to the White Tower being lead by Ravens, thus under Mat's influence. NOTHING supports the theory of Tuon's death, or Mat losing her.

[midnight]

This was covered in the old boards quite a bit I believe.

 

Mat got one of his eyes poked out by the Dark One in a dream (EOTW). The Dark One sees through this eye, there's the reference when Mat wakes up from the dream from Rands POV and one where the DO or Ishy remarks upon it, been a Year since I read the series last I can't give oy more specifics (I can't friggin find my EOTW !!! I got all the other books ready!).

 

Since the Snakes & Foxes don't like the DO and the DO sees through one of Mats Eyes.... isn't it obvious? Yes I know theres a temporal dissonance in that but you know thats whats going to happen.

 

As for the Seanchan, when Tuon learns that her homeland is in rebellion what do you think she will do? After TG she's going to take Mat over the ocean and tell him get me my kingdom back. That way the Seanchan are out of Randland and that thread is tied up for past the scope of the books.

 

Anyways I don't mean to sound like an ass but.... This was discussed ad nauseum, and all the discussion here is as if no one read the books, or at least the countless threads on Mat's eye, Egwene's dream, and the Finn's Prophecy.

 

 

 

Midnight~

[Minnea]

Mat got one of his eyes poked out by the Dark One in a dream (EOTW).

 

I tried to find the passage in EotW, but couldn't find it. There is one time, just after the "incident" in Four Kings where Mat's eyes were hurt by the "lightning", when Rand has a dream about the dead Gode, and Ba'alzamon, ending with:

 

His (Ba'alzamons's) fist opened, and a ball of flame shot out. It struck Rand in the face, exploding, searing.

Rand lurced awake in the dark, water dripping through the cloaks onto his face. His hand trembled as he touched his cheeks. The skin felt tender, as if sunburned.

Suddenly he realized Mat was twisting and moaning in his sleep. He shook him and Mat came awake with a wimper.

"My eyes! Oh, Light, my eyes! He took my eyes!"

 

If this is the reference you mean it's quite weak for what you are proposing. If this means the DO sees through Mat, then he sees through both Mat's eyes, not just one.

 

And if something would happen with the Snakes & Foxes because of the DO seeing through one of Mat's eyes, it should already have happened since Mat has encountered both.

[Kadere]

agreed.

 

Some people also like to point out Agnoir saying that Mat lead them to the Eye of the World, as though this has something to do with the DO, or one of the Forsaken seeing through his eyes. Inevitabley someone will "point this out", because someone almost always does. Just to quelch this before that person posts it, Agnoir was talking about the Shadar Logoth dagger, not Mat's eyes.

[midnight]

Minnea,

 

Thats the one. It is weak until the scene where Ishmael/Ba'Alzamon/Mordin is amused/reminiscing on how they are tracking all of the Ta'veren, I think it's in POD but I am not sure. There is also another scene where theres a reference of Mat's eye being picked at by a raven/crow I forget completly where I get that though (Like I said Haven't re-read the series in a bit).

 

Yes there's the Farstrider connection but I believe the scenes happen prior to Mat's encouter with Noal.

 

Although everything I have posted is remembered from well before the old boards died, so I could be remembering wrong. However I am almost positive that there was a link found between Mat's eye(s) and the DO. I will prolly have the series reread by the end of summer so I will be able to provide specific quotes.

 

Like I said there is some temporal dissonance for a straight up smooth transition. However I can see along the lines of:

-Mat enters the tower of Ghenji

-Finds out his eye is being used for something else

-Rolls the dice to figure out which one it is

-Makes a trade for Moraine

Again thats roughly what I figure is going to happen in that story arc.

 

 

Kadere,

 

No I am not referencing Aginor at all, this reasoning is kinda like when Morgase witnesses the execution of the DF's.

 

 

Midnight~

[Minnea]

midnight wrote:

 

However I can see along the lines of:

-Mat enters the tower of Ghenji

-Finds out his eye is being used for something else

-Rolls the dice to figure out which one it is

-Makes a trade for Moraine

Again thats roughly what I figure is going to happen in that story arc.

 

I can agree with you there... it's a possible way for it to happen, although I don't think it's going to be that "easy" for them. If it's all up to Mat, then why involve Thom and one other? I will not be surprised it Mat "do away" with one of his eyes even before they enter the Tower of Ghenjei (or however it's spelled..).

 

Why?

Because Mat already has figured out that one of his eyes is used for something else. He reasoned out that the *finns are using an eye of those they meet to "see through" and gather info... That's how they could stuff Mat's head with other peoples memories - not just their memories up to the point where those people met the *finns, but up to the moment they died.

[Guest Majsju]

I can agree with you there... it's a possible way for it to happen, although I don't think it's going to be that "easy" for them. If it's all up to Mat, then why involve Thom and one other? I will not be surprised it Mat "do away" with one of his eyes even before they enter the Tower of Ghenjei (or however it's spelled..).

 

Why?

Because Mat already has figured out that one of his eyes is used for something else. He reasoned out that the *finns are using an eye of those they meet to "see through" and gather info... That's how they could stuff Mat's head with other peoples memories - not just their memories up to the point where those people met the *finns, but up to the moment they died.

 

And that leads back to the little deatil how mat is supposed to figure out on his own that the finns are only seeing through one of his eyes, and then figure out which one it is. His previous encounters with the finns should make him expect the worst from them, which in this case means he would expect them to see through both his eyes.

 

I think he will bargain with the finns, giving up one eye to be allowed to leave with Moiraine. That also fits better with the prophecy, Give up half the light.

[dicetosser1]

just a thought about rand going blind as was brought up in this thread. Could the "black flecks" bee saa???

[Zardi]

Rand hasn't channelled the True Power.

 

The flecks he saw were caused by a fireball exploding in his face. Stare at a lightbulb and you'll experience a more subdued version of this effect as well.

[Duinn]

just a thought about rand going blind as was brought up in this thread. Could the "black flecks" bee saa???

 

 

I would really think that the black flecks are there to link Moridin and Rand in our with the similar imagery.

[Guest Majsju]

Except that there is no similar imagery, except for the words "black flecks". Almost everytime RJ has written about Moridin's saa, he has included the description of how if floats across the eyes. No floating in Rand's case, his flecks are shimmering. We also know that the saa is visible for other people, though noone saw anything in Rand's eyes. So there's really nothing similar. Rather on the contrary.

[rochaid]

and also there have been many discriptions(when someone got hit)of how black flecks swam across there vision,as majj explained,there is no reason to differentiate between these descriptions

[Jackalyn]

I for get where this was first mentioned. But could the 1/2 light of the world is Seanchan?

[Guest Majsju]

Seanchan isn't exactly connected to the Light...

 

We know that the finns see through at least one of mat's eyes, both Egwene and Min has viewings/dreams about Mat losing an eye, Mat is connected with the Norse God Odin who sacrificed an eye for knowledge, so there can't really be much doubt about what "half the light" refers to.

[TheDiceAgain...]

Maybe I'm being completely unobservant here, but how do we know that the Finns are seeing through Matt's eye(s)? Does he mention this at some point that I'm just forgetting or was this a theory that was confirmed by Mr. Jordan?

[NEisberg]

ive been wanting to know the same thing

[Mithrandir]

Ok this is a bit of topic but there have been several mentions of the connections between Mat and Odin, and i thought another Norse connection. As all who have read KOD know Rand lost his hand, but what is interesting is that another Norse god, Tyr, lost his hand too. Also there is a third god (Frey) who loses something (his sword, because he gave it away.) This bears slight similarities to Perrin tossing his axe.

 

The really interesting thing is that all three fought in Ragnarok (Taimon Gaidon??) and died because of what they missed.

 

OK i know the connections are pretty stretched, but i just thought it was a cool item to share. Oh yeah and i personally think that Mat loses his eye to the Finn to save Moiraine. ;)