Medieval Mafia--with a Twist! Game OVER

[krugster]

Just letting everyone know that I am doing alot of traveling this fine Easter weekend and will be unable to get here for most of the weekend. Hope everyone has a good weekend.

 

[Guest Far Dareis Mai]

Just an FYI: DAY 1 ENDS IN 15 MINUTES.

 

And just because I'm mod and may give my opinion, and it's a quote I've often used in almost every game I've played (please note this has nothing to do with my game whatsoever, I just always say it and I can't refrain right now):

 

METAGAMING = BAD!!!!!!!!

 

Tee hee, sorry. Couldn't resist.

[Barmacral]

Dude, no way. Mafia are the only ones that win using meta-gaming principles. I'll fall out of my chair if another experienced player backs you up on this.

 

If I back him up, do you promise to video tape it?

 

Meta-Gaming IS bad. Don't recommend it, although Kivam certainly used it to his advantage in Raena's Illuminator's game. Which is affectionately referred to as the Kivam Gambit these days.

 

Also, if you are gonna Meta-game Vem, remember, DPR has ONLY ever managed to slide under the radar and not get lynched when evil, this should therefore make you think he's innocent, since he's acting so guilty.

[Moghedian]

What is Meta-gaming?

[Barmacral]

Meta-gaming is making assumptions about a player based on results of previous games.

[Guest Far Dareis Mai]

And using information outside of the game thread to further the game.

 

For example: You keep track of the night cycle, and who is active during the night cycle. Those people "might" be more likely to be guilty(because they would have to send in their "night action" during the night phase)...or they are just in a completely different time zone. It gets very dodgy when people metagame, because they can't trust the information as proof, merely opinion and speculation. Some people do prefer to play that way though, with varying degrees of success. It's a very debated thing. :D

 

Okay, back to writing up the scene.

[Guest Far Dareis Mai]

As the news spread about the Great Hall, there were varying degrees of reaction. The more sober were sufficiently grieved. The more drunk were sufficiently apathetic. As fingers started pointing back and forth, you do your best to remain quiet and observant. Many members jumped on Tigara at first, but were somehow swayed from this. Kivam's demeanor garnered suspicious glares, as well as a few other members.

 

Accusations jumped back and forth throughout the day, but by dusk, nothing had been settled, and everyone remained alive.

 

It is now Night. Please send me your night actions. You have until Monday morning.

 

[Kivam]

[glow=red,2,300]unvote tigara[/glow]

 

That bandwagon went way way way too fast, especially having been started by a random revenge vote.  I have a bad feeling about this.

 

Uh-oh. Now I've seen some bad weather in my day, and recognize the signs to be able to tell that a storm's a comin'!

 

And I'm not feeling so good about this. Kivy first posts with a request to vire Loreina,  which makes sense - we have a dangreous character called the Jester and Loreina's post restriction is to tell jokes. Other than a finder going on a wild hunch, this is as good a place to start as any.

 

And everyone knows it's not a lock - I have to talk like an old man in this game and Kryos get's to talk like a pirate.

 

But back to the examination...So Kivy has a good point. Then, he points out that Kryos is suspicious for not wanting toview Loreina. Then, he votes for Tigara. Again, I agreed with this logic and said so. We're still good. But a little later, after Tigs has not even defended himself, I go ahed and vote for him too. Seems the most suspicious candidate at this point (besides Kryos, who is lynchproof). Vemy contines to act strange, and he has to act like a cat - but does he have to be a cat that can't defend himself? The bandwagon picks up steam here, but for good reason. Vemy's behavior could be that of a mafia that got called early and he has no defense other than to act calm. And we have been told that time limits will be imposed, so if you want to vote, best to go ahead and do that.

 

But, then Kivy unvotes. He gives no reason other than he does not like bandwagons? What about Tigs strange behavior? That didn't really change. He's still a prime suspect for a first day lynch.

 

Which brings up the possibility that an early attempt at steering the game is in effect?

Kivam sofar:

1. Finder, investigate Loreina tonight.

2. Kryos is looking suspicious

3. Vote Tigs.- He sticks out as being suspicious

4. Unvote Tigs-Because bandwagons are not good

 

Looks a bit like a subtle push here and a string-pull there. You wouldn't happen to be trying to influence the direction of the game would you?

 

 

Not at all - but the initial vote was a pure revenge vote, based on nothing, and remember, there's a reason why a player might not defend themselves on a lynch

[Thorum]

I completely agree with thorum's logic.

 

That's probably the first time anyone uses my name and the word "logic" in the same sentence, without the word "impossible".

 

Thorum voted for me because I was the third vote on a growing bandwagon. This can be looked at as an easy place for a mafioso to "hide". He even said that the fourth vote' date=' Kryos, was an even more suspicious vote, but we can't vote for Kryos.[/quote']

 

Two reasons I think you more suspicious than Kryos:

- I miscalculated the votes (because Kivam unvoted), so you actually stood where I thought Kryos stood

- You posted a couple of posts previous to the vote, and could f.e. have given the second vote for tigs just as easily.

 

About the metagaming:

In my recollections (admittedly, I haven't played mafia for a couple of months), Vemy always had a lot to say about his votes. Here, it was simply "I agree completely"...

 

DPR' date=' ye know ye an' Vemy would be havin' kept banterin' on otherwise. So I had t' step in an' break th' momentum. Tho 'tis rather interestin' t' watch, now me question be, 't makes one look evil an' th' other innocent, or both evil? That`s a tough one t' decide.[/quote']

As per the above + Vemy gave the second vote for DPR, trying to distancing  from him, knowing the dpr-lynch has almost no chance of success before night.

 

The vote at the end was:

Tigara (9): Leelou, DPR, Kryos, Nae, chilli, krugster, dark justice, moghedien, barmy

Barmy (2): Nynaeve, Gerrendus

DPR (3): Thorum, vemynal, lor

Gerrendus (1): cosmicpanda

Kivam (1): Tigara

 

FDM, wasn't tigara supposed to die in that scene? She's got thrice as much votes as the second...

 

Just a couple of small things to think about

[Naeann]

Thorum.... Tigara is a HE.  And if you had read the rules on page one.. they say that if a majority vote is not reached then the day will end in a NO LYNCH.

 

 

I hate stupid people who keep calling here asking for a Jennifer... 9 times in the past three days!  GET A CLUE!

[Thorum]

Sorry again tigara. I've got you in my head as female since I first read your username, and it'll take a while to get it out again.

 

Secondly: I've got other things to remember than specific rules. Thanks for reminding me.

 

Thirdly: who is jennifer?

[Naeann]

Thats what I'd like to know!!  I'm tired of the phone waking me up.

[Toy and Minion]

*posts about daisy's*

 

Whoa!  Lot of info to push through.  Sorry I was gone.  Personal stuff.  No time to get on.

 

First, no Night Kill.  This worries me.  Secondly, No Lynch.  This worries me, as well.

 

*hums like a harmonica*

[Barmacral]

Its been a surprisingly informative day for the lack of... anything thusfar, actually.

[Thorum]

I knew I had forgotten a sorry: sorry I kept people from voting tigara, and not voting HIM myself. A no kill is always bad in my opinion.

 

 

Except is he's the jester, of course

[Leelou]

No kills hath been too much of a good thing, for I fear something wicked this way comes. Until the light of day doth touch my face, I shall find myself to bed.

[Moghedian]

This is getting interesting...

*waits for the next night with anticipation*

[Dark Justice]

im not very happy about this all.. It looks to me like a storm is coming....

[Faec Dreythorn]

You know when your computer stops to work so you have to get it fixed?  That's what happened with me.

[DPR]

 

*stares through spectacles at game rules* Well, I don't see any rules against posting at night, so since I aint' sleepin:

 

Outside of the obvious, two new things are bugging me.

 

1. - Something Kivam said.

Not at all - but the initial vote was a pure revenge vote, based on nothing, and remember, there's a reason why a player might not defend themselves on a lynch

OK, say the first vote was a revenge vote - but then, the vote made sense for reasons other than that. Which is why YOU implied you voted that way as well. What does not make sense is why you unvoted.

 

and

 

2. - Two somethings that Thorum said.

Two reasons I think you more suspicious than Kryos:

- I miscalculated the votes (because Kivam unvoted), so you actually stood where I thought Kryos stood

- You posted a couple of posts previous to the vote, and could f.e. have given the second vote for tigs just as easily

and

As per the above + Vemy gave the second vote for DPR, trying to distancing  from him, knowing the dpr-lynch has almost no chance of success before night.

So you call me out for being second on a lynch. OK, I even said that there was a least some logic to that. far from damning - but it was better than meta-gaming. So how is it that Vemy being second on my lynch list is okay with you. You say that he did that knowing that there was little chance that the lynch woul go through?  Why would I have known any better? This is obvious favoritism towards Vemy.

 

To be very clear - I am not saying that I think Kivam is mafia. I am just asking for clarification on a point that could lead in a few different directions.

I am saying that obvious favoritism and colussion between two players like Vemy and Thorum is HIGHLY suspicious and could very well be indicative of mafia behavior.  Explanations are welcome, but they better make more sense than the ones we have so far.

 

 

 

[Vemynal]

Agreeing with thorum is not favoring thorum

 

But I do agree with you DPR that he did over look my vote as you brought up...

 

As the future President I promise to declare this mad Hatter day!

 

Now...change places!

 

 

 

or basically I'm interested to see what thorum has to say...

[Thorum]

So you call me out for being second on a lynch. OK, I even said that there was a least some logic to that. far from damning - but it was better than meta-gaming. So how is it that Vemy being second on my lynch list is okay with you. You say that he did that knowing that there was little chance that the lynch woul go through?  Why would I have known any better? This is obvious favoritism towards Vemy.

 

I am saying that obvious favoritism and colussion between two players like Vemy and Thorum is HIGHLY suspicious and could very well be indicative of mafia behavior.  Explanations are welcome, but they better make more sense than the ones we have so far.

 

You obviously misunderstood my point:

- you were FOURTH on the Tigara-lynchtrain (the place were I thought at first Kryos stood), not second. It's simple maths: 3 (still voting) + 1 (Kivam unvoted) = 4.

- secondly, I DID say something about Vemy being second on your train. I suggest you reread the last of the quotes you made:

As per the above + Vemy gave the second vote for DPR, trying to distancing  from him, knowing the dpr-lynch has almost no chance of success before night.

A couple of facts at the time of that vote:

1) Tigara misses only 1 vote to get lynched (which Vemy couldn't give);

2) I gave a possible reasoning for why someone (DPR in this case) is more likely to be guilty than Tigara, and vote for him;

3) Vemy does something I've never seen him do: he totally agrees with someone (me);

4) the DPR-lynch had almost no chance for success: day was almost over, and mine was the first vote.

 

My interpretation of these facts is that Vemy wants to put as much difference between himself and DPR as possible.

This interpretation is even strengthened by DPR:

I am saying that obvious favoritism and colussion between two players like Vemy and Thorum is HIGHLY suspicious and could very well be indicative of mafia behavior.  Explanations are welcome, but they better make more sense than the ones we have so far.

DPR also links Vemy and me as being favorites. Sorry, DPR, I cannot see any post where I favor Vemy. The fact that it happens the other way around, is one of the reasons I see this link between the two of you.

 

It's not me that needs to do explanations, but you two.

 

Lastly, three thoughts:

- If I get nightkilled, go after DPR or Vemy (either one): as of now, I'm quite sure that if one is mafia, so is the other. In Dutch we've got a proverb: "two flies in one go": if one is mafia, we know another mafia;

- Good to see you back, faec. Your appearance spares you at least one early vote tomorrow morning (mine).

- I've been thinking: if we simply use "no vote" each time, won't we almost automatically win? If mafia kills the jester, we win.

[Thorum]

- the last suggestion is not more than that. I want your opinions, before going on on that point;

 

- DPR, if you say there was more reason than revenge for a vote, could you please provide an adequate quote? Thanx. Sorry to say so, but after your 1., I don't see any well-funded things. Be glad, this moves you a little lower on my possible-mafia list (maybe even below Vemy, we'll see). As a mafia, you have to think your posts through more strongly.

[Kryos]

You reckon Thorum that ye won`t be night killed, an' if ye be night killed 't won`t be by DPR or Vemy in th' least. That would be a blunder t' lay down suspicion on them. So I can easily say if ye be night killed, them two would be clear an' safe. Th' purpose o' th' night kill be t' draw as wee notice as possible an' what ye be suggestin' would brin' a whole heap o' trouble down, an' I know Vemy an' DPR well enough t' know they will do nothin' as lily livered as that.

 

But then again, maybe ye want 't t' seem like that jus' t' toss suspicion upon them two an' away from yersef? That thar be a possibility as well that one must eyeball.

[Thorum]

an' I know Vemy an' DPR well enough t' know they will do nothin' as lily livered as that.

And they know we know, so they could actually do it.

 

As to myself: like I explained above, the whole of DPR's strategy against me is build on misunderstandings (I'm not saying lies because I'm not sure enough yet)