End of EotW

[Feral]

Just finished a re-re-read of the first book and I found the end more confusing than I remember it to be lol. So some questions:

 

How did Rand get from the hilltop where he'd killed Aginor, to Tarwin's Gap?

 

Where did the steps come from? Did Ishamael make them?

 

Where is the room Ishamael and Rand fought in?

 

Was Kari al Thor real? If so then how come Ishamael had her?

 

When Rand cut Ishamael's black cord, was he severing him from the TP?

 

 

 

 

[el Nynaeve]

It's been a bit since I read EotW, so I can only answer your last two questions.

 

Kari al'Thor was not real. I believe that was just a vision designed to torment Rand and coerce him into submitting to Ishy/the DO.

 

The cutting of the black cord does not sever Ishy from the TP, it's only Ishy's connection to the DO. Asmodean had one too, the black cord is part of the visible protection the Forsaken receive from the DO, shielding them from the taint on saidin.

 

I don't even know if it's possible to sever someone from the TP. ???

[Feral]

I don't even know if it's possible to sever someone from the TP. ???

 

Good point. I forgot how different the TP is from the OP lol.

[Andrew the Great]

I'm not sure exactly, but I think Rand used some form of Traveling to get to Tarwin's Gap, I'm pretty sure  that Rand unconsciously made the steps, and the rest....I've no idea where the room is and the others have pretty well been answered.

[icspots]

The steps were Rand unconsciously using Skimming to get where he wanted to go.  At the end of TSR he does the same thing with steps when going from Alcair Dal to Rhuidean.  Once he sees Asmodean floating on a silver disc he stops climbing the steps and just rides the one step after him.

 

The thing I never got about that scene was in CoS when Egwene is Skimming Lan to Ebou Dar she thinks to herself that even if two sisters made two skimming weaves exactly the same they wouldn't be able to see each other..... so how is it that Rand and Asmo could see each other?

 

As to the room I think we can say it was Shayol Ghul... I don't remember if it had the weird sky as to whether or not it was the Pit of Doom

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Where is the room Ishamael and Rand fought in?

UNQUOTE

 

Is it not the same room where Aran'gar and Osan'gar were introduced?

[Bazzles]

I think that Rand describes the room as the same room he has been in before in his dreams - IE. it's in TAR. I may be wrong though. =)

[Andrew the Great]

The thing I never got about that scene was in CoS when Egwene is Skimming Lan to Ebou Dar she thinks to herself that even if two sisters made two skimming weaves exactly the same they wouldn't be able to see each other..... so how is it that Rand and Asmo could see each other?

I seem to recall that in order to see each other you have to make the exact same weave in the exact same place. Because Rand's weave was exactly the same and in the same spot as Asmo's, they could see each other. Other than that, it could just be a saidin vs. saidar thing.

 

Also, I think the room did have the wierd sky, but not really sure, I haven't read in a while. Definitely Shayol Ghul, probably the Pit of Doom.

[balefireruinssteaks]

Rand can also do some pretty extraordinary things that perhaps Egwene cannot.  Asmodean said that he had never heard of anyone being able to stop a gateway from closing except perhaps Semhirage...and I think she's stronger than Egwene.

 

So maybe Egwene's theory is just dependant on her power level.  Rand created a weave that was exactly the same as Asmodeans.

[Leopoled Boothe]

Was Kari al Thor real? If so then how come Ishamael had her?

 

I think that the Kari al'Thor in this scene was real.  The evidence lies in the fact that she was set free.  If this was just an image that Ishy was using to torment and/or manipulate Rand it is unlikely that Kari being set free would have been part of the image.  As to why Ishy had her soul, well I hope we'll find out more about that, and about Kari in general in AMOL.

 

[Darth_Andrea]

Unless I have totaly missed something I believe there are 3 forms of traveling. Skimming, Gateway 1 step traveling, and a form where you simply vanish from one place and appear in another. We have seen it 3 times, in the prolog of EotW Lews Therin dose it, at the end of EotW Rand dose it disapearing from the location where the Eye was and appearing in Tarwins gap. And we see Lanfear do it in TGH at the end when she finds Min in the bed with Rand. If I am wrong someone please correct me.

 

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]         

[Luckers]

Unless I have totaly missed something I believe there are 3 forms of traveling. Skimming, Gateway 1 step traveling, and a form where you simply vanish from one place and appear in another. We have seen it 3 times, in the prolog of EotW Lews Therin dose it, at the end of EotW Rand dose it disapearing from the location where the Eye was and appearing in Tarwins gap. And we see Lanfear do it in TGH at the end when she finds Min in the bed with Rand. If I am wrong someone please correct me.

 

You arn't wrong. Technically RJ was. This is one of the big transitions he made in terms of his descriptions of power-related effects in the early books and the later books. It wasn't a new form of travelling, it was travelling... he simply changed it later.

 

It's not the only confusing use of the power early on. For instance why did Moiraine use fire and earth to attack Aginor and not air, or spirit--by description those weaves were insanely complex... she somehow managed to compact earth and create a fire that was sticky. It's a stupid waste of energy for a woman who was not strong in Earth and Fire to begin with.

 

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

It's not the only confusing use of the power early on. For instance why did Moiraine use fire and earth to attack Aginor and not air, or spirit--by description those weaves were insanely complex... she somehow managed to compact earth and create a fire that was sticky. It's a stupid waste of energy for a woman who was not strong in Earth and Fire to begin with.

UNQUOTE

 

Just because men are stronger than women in Fire and Earth doesnt mean to say they cannot use them. Otherwise, she could not have killed Bel'al with Balefire or done half of the things she did altogether. She may have been strong in Fire or Earth for all we know, not much is said about Moiraine with respect to her Talents-the only thing mentioned was the stone she uses as a focus

[Feral]

Thanks all, things are clearer now.

 

I think that the Kari al'Thor in this scene was real.  The evidence lies in the fact that she was set free.

 

That's what I thought. I'm hoping it will get logically explained and it wasn't just a mistake.

[Tyrell]

I just tend to ignore some of the randomness at the end of EotW as "last 10 minutes of the movie and we've still got most of our special effects budget left to spend"

[trakand_01]

Absolutely, or the 'oh crap i've only got 1000 words left and i've got 8 bullet-points left to fit in...' moment.

[aevogt]

We also see Lanfear (disguised as Else) turn a corner in the White Tower and disappear with Egwene right on her heels.  No residue for Egwene to feel or anything.

 

 

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

We also see Lanfear (disguised as Else) turn a corner in the White Tower and disappear with Egwene right on her heels.  No residue for Egwene to feel or anything.

UNQUOTE

 

Which book was that in? I remember it.

 

Was it before the True Power was reserved for Moridin?

[Luckers]

Just because men are stronger than women in Fire and Earth doesnt mean to say they cannot use them. Otherwise, she could not have killed Bel'al with Balefire or done half of the things she did altogether. She may have been strong in Fire or Earth for all we know, not much is said about Moiraine with respect to her Talents-the only thing mentioned was the stone she uses as a focus

 

The point was not that she should not have been able to use Fire and Earth--though indeed i am hardpressed to see how she could have done what she did--its more a question of why a woman who was weak in Fire and Earth would use them against Be'lal, and why he did not simply shield her, or kill her, and why the fire somehow managed to hold him in place, and what happened to the earth that fell away under him (because unless there were a very conveniently placed cave under Aginor... i am confused.

 

And no, we do know she was weak in Fire and Earth, she herself tells us.

[Duneflayer]

Just because men are stronger than women in Fire and Earth doesnt mean to say they cannot use them. Otherwise, she could not have killed Bel'al with Balefire or done half of the things she did altogether. She may have been strong in Fire or Earth for all we know, not much is said about Moiraine with respect to her Talents-the only thing mentioned was the stone she uses as a focus

 

The point was not that she should not have been able to use Fire and Earth--though indeed i am hardpressed to see how she could have done what she did--its more a question of why a woman who was weak in Fire and Earth would use them against Be'lal, and why he did not simply shield her, or kill her, and why the fire somehow managed to hold him in place, and what happened to the earth that fell away under him (because unless there were a very conveniently placed cave under Aginor... i am confused.

 

And no, we do know she was weak in Fire and Earth, she herself tells us.

 

i'm not sure there was a cave because remember Aginor just stood there on air and correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't Asmodean say at 1 point that there is no way even if your channeling to fly

 

so i think it was just an illution or something like that

[Luckers]

Forgive me, i was attempting to be witty. My ex-boyfriend tells me im not good at it.

 

I was merely making a point that a whole bunch of dirt merely disapeared when Moiraine dropped the ground out from under him.

 

Channelers cannot fly, you are correct, but Aginor could have woven a platform of air touching the edges of the hole. That being said you are correct in suggesting that that seems out of what we know to be normal channeling methods later in the books.

[aussie_ashaman123]

We also see Lanfear (disguised as Else) turn a corner in the White Tower and disappear with Egwene right on her heels.  No residue for Egwene to feel or anything.

 

 

 

Im guessing Lanfear inverted the weaves, else everyone in the white tower may have felt the strange 'new' weave being peformed in the novice quarters

[Jument Logos]

I think the reason that RJ wrote all that so piecemeal is because he was trying to depict acurate strings of consciousness for Rand's journey in a battle that he isn't ready to undertake.

 

as for explaining how it all happens, He climbs physicaly to the top of the hill where the cliff is and fights, then he Travels to Tarwin's Gap, not Consiously though, which i think there is an explanation as for why he did so without the foreknowledge. Lews Therin indwelling. by the end of the book we've seen Mat make remarks in a language he doesn't know because of his connection to the old blood a few times, and each there is a feeling to the descriptions that he doesn't really know what he was doing until he was done, only having the memory, like a black-out. it makes sense that the Dragon Reborn's old blood outbursts would be Lews Therin taking over his vessel in this age for a couple of tight minutes where his power is needed. as Rand gets closer to his destiny, lews therin gains a more permanance later in the books. They actually talk to one another. they did not do so when he left Tarwins Gap however. Instead, the body of Rand was in Old Blood mode, and was being controlled by Lews Therin, because the actions he was undertaking involved such a strong will to fight the shadow that it awoke the soul within, so to speak, and he opened a waygate and made the steps himself to follow ishamael, perhaps because he knew where he was or perhaps beucase there was a pull from the Darklord to the dragon.

The room that Rand recognises that they end up fighting in is in Tel Aran Rhiod, its the only explanation, because with the later knowledge we get about the world of dreams, its most logical to assume that all the Ba'alzamon dreams from the beginning took place in TAR, as it is one of the most lucrative ways to take advantage of a naeive enemies for a seasoned Forsaken,

 

thats how i made sense of it all at least, i may have left out some of it though. I just really like the thought of how his old blood is actually the soul of the dragon of the age of legends and that his destiny involves acting out the fullfillment of prophesy, and what makes it so inevitable is that the will of the ancient can seep into the living body of the messiah figure's rebirth.

[42Bonzo88]

    The book where Egwene was running after Lanfear in the WT is TDR.

Hope this helps

 

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

The book where Egwene was running after Lanfear in the WT is TDR.

Hope this helps

UNQUOTE

 

It does help. Im sure that in the middle books several times Forsaken have mentioned that the True Power is now reserved for Moridin. If the incedent where Egwene was chasing Lanfear was in TDR it means the True Power was available to all Forsaken, which means Lanfear could have been using that instead of saidar, which explains why there was no residue.