The character I am most disappointed in.

[Vambram]

8)

 

I agree with you, Ararana.

[aevogt]

Right there with you Ararana and Vambram. 

 

Simply put, Faile is his wife.

 

He's supposed to put her above all else.  That's what a husband does. 

 

Even when she's wrong.  That's what a husband does. 

 

Wade through lakes of blood to rescue her.  That's what a husband does.

 

Sacrifice everything he has.  That's what a husband does.

[Viezael]

I agree--Perrin is defending his wife, as husbands and wives should do for each other.  I like them both.

 

I'm most disappointed in Rand.  He used to be so cool.  Now he has distanced all of his friends from him--he was particularily rude to Egwene once...

He also whines all the time.  It gets SO old.  I don't know why any woman would love him.  I know he has a hard life, but he went from being someone who was trying to deal with it and be a good person to a whiney, rude, cocky idiot.  :) (Just my opinion, of course).

 

I don't think the society is really "female dominated" as I argued in another thread.  In all aspects but the OP it seems like men still rule many aspects of the world as usual (family, sexual relationships -- one man, two women, warriors and breadwinners are still mostly men etc).  As in our world, there are women and men kings/queens--so I don't see how that is any different.  Girls can be rude, have strong opinions etc--I don't see how that makes them worse than the men in the series.  I think many of them turned slutty halfway through, but that's something else entirely which also points to the fact that women do not dominate--they're trying to please men in many ways.

 

But--I do see your point of what RJ was doing--it just didn't seem to carry through the world as much as people think (imo).

 

 

[Tyrell]

To reply to Viezael's comments about the Aiel marriage customs, the women are clearly in control there. Take Gaul as a case in point.

[DuDZiK]

Gaul

 

Chiad - "Well sure I like you and I'll even sleep with you but I don't want any kind of commitment and you have to promise you'll sleep with my hot first-sister as well"

 

Gaul  - "No, no, no only if you'll marry me"

 

Now, I don't think this is a believeable male character. 

 

Its perfectly believable for me, but then again I am the same character. I would not just want a sex, I would want something more... like a marriage.

[DemandredFO]

aevogt, I know what you're saying but if Faile walks a cliff is Perrin supposed to follow her.  If the DO breaks the wheel because he's rescuing Faile or something they will all die anyway and he'll still be seperated from Faile.  I do agree however, that Faile is much better than Perrin.  She, I think, has a pragmatic outlook, he does not.

Not to totally defend Rand because he has made some poor decisions but he has some taint madness.  I think part of the two rivers lads, Rand and Perrin mostly, but Matt too, comes from their totally whacked sense of chivalry.

[hopper]

Perrin.

 

 

I love the character, but he has been disappointing.

[flippinaces]

i'm not really disapointed in any of the characters mentioned here:

 

Perrin- I don't see what's wrong with Perrin's desire to get his wife back, even if it is with an "at all costs" mentality.  His whole family was butchered, his two best friends (Mat and Rand) have moved on with their lives/duties, he's had to cope with being a wolfbrother (while i'm sure we'd all find that cool, imagine for a moment how scary that would be to a sensible person), and the only person he has left in the world that he cares about gets kidnapped by a bunch of savages who've destroyed/taken everything in their path.  I'd have been far more disappointed if he'd just shrugged it off like an emotionless brick for his other duties.

 

Egwene- The first couple of times i read the series (through 11) i was an Eggyhater, but recently i've discovered that i admire how she handles things.  Granted, i could do without the "Rand doesn't know what he's doing, i have to save the world from him/him from the world" attitude that all female channelers seem to have, but for those upset about her "whining about headaches and politics" i ask you this: If you suffered from migraines every day (thanks Halima) and were surrounded by people who wanted your job just for the power they could then abuse, what two things would you think about most?  And while it does come off a bit arrogant thinking the world would fall apart without the tower, the right Amyrlin/Hall could do a TREMENDOUS amount of good globally, and the prophesies state the tower will (paraphrasing) serve Rand at the last battle, therefore needing to be in the right hands yet again.  She's leading the charge in that battle almost single-handedly, so kudos to her.

 

Elayne- I have a daughter, so i understand first hand how crazy pregnant women can get (no offense ladies, but WOW) and everything i've seen negative about her can seriously be chalked up to pregnancy and missing the love of her life.

 

Elaida- She NEVER made good decisions, even when she was organizing her take-over (picking a black sister for keeper = de de de) so her continued bungling and blind faith that she'll come out well in the end aren't really disappointing.

 

Morgase- I agree that going to whitecloaks was a bonehead move, but lets look at her options at the time before condemning her here.  She definitely needed outside help when she chose to leave Andor.  Cairhien was a disaster area, Tear was under Rand's control, Tar Valon was not an option because of her extreme dislike for them at the moment.  Illian was firmly in Sammael's grasp, Murandy would NEVER have helped Andor, as Murandians don't even help Murandy.  The ruler of Altara controls a tiny amount of that country, Ghealdan was being ravaged by the Prophet.  The borderlands have the blight and some small "civil battles" to worry about, no help there, and Arad Doman and Tarabon were in utter chaos.  She knew Gaebril was at least a darkfriend, if not to what degree, and the enemy of my enemy is my friend, thus Pedron Niall was pretty much all she had.

 

These seem to be the top 5, but if anyone replies with more, i'll try to come up with something for you too :)

 

 

P.S. Rand- i left him out on purpose, but honestly, he's pretty easy.  He has to do a job no one else can do, or has done.  the whole world depends on him doing it, and he has no idea how it can be done.  people who get close to him die, or try to kill him.  anyone could be a darkfriend, or in the line of fire.  oh, and he suspects that the only way to do the job right is to die.  with all that on your plate, who has time to think about love?

[Daedallus]

Morgase- I agree that going to whitecloaks was a bonehead move, but lets look at her options at the time before condemning her here.  She definitely needed outside help when she chose to leave Andor.  Cairhien was a disaster area, Tear was under Rand's control, Tar Valon was not an option because of her extreme dislike for them at the moment.  Illian was firmly in Sammael's grasp, Murandy would NEVER have helped Andor, as Murandians don't even help Murandy.  The ruler of Altara controls a tiny amount of that country, Ghealdan was being ravaged by the Prophet.  The borderlands have the blight and some small "civil battles" to worry about, no help there, and Arad Doman and Tarabon were in utter chaos.  She knew Gaebril was at least a darkfriend, if not to what degree, and the enemy of my enemy is my friend, thus Pedron Niall was pretty much all she had.[/qote]

 

Morgase should have just died. Elayne has shown that getting outside help would never have gotten her throne back. in fact she mentions several times that no one would stand for her if she had Rand's help ect. There was no point in morgase leaving andor to find men. What she needed to do, was go to dyelin, or the friend she had strapped and thrown herself on their mercy. anything else is just useless chapters. her whole story arc is just a catalyst to move Galad in the right direction. i wish RJ had kept her presence to a minimum, because on the whole, she's just not entertaining.

[Viezael]

I know Rand has a lot to deal with, but imo -- he just isn't likable at all anymore, and thus is disappointing.  He could have kept some of his good qualities...haha

 

As for women dominating the relationships--I disagree.  Gaul wanted to get married, Chiad didn't want to give up her "career" to get married.  I had a guy want to marry me before and I said no--but I wasn't in "control" of the relationship--marriage has to be mutual.

 

 

[Sila Darklover]

Egwene.  Not as a person, but as a character.  She started out as a bold girl who yearned for adventure--the kind I like to read about--but turned into a politician almost overnight, and has been too busy with intrigue and plotting to have time for being human.  Bor-ing!

 

Gaul would rather bed a Trolloc than Chiad?  He might change his mind if he did.  Or maybe not  ;D   

[cheyjade]

a.  she was mind-f****d by Padan Fain

B.  She was used and abused by alviarin

 

Are you saying that those events justify her actions in deposing Suian and Leane? They both occured after she made her power play (i still think her motivations were for personal power, and that the reasons used in deposing them were justifications).

 

I don't remember how Fain screwed with her mind..I thought they just talked.  I'm rereading the series, maybe I'll get to that part soon.

 

Maybe you're saying that she's been punished enough for her actions. I think a 30 year farm penance is good enough for what she's done after getting the job. Sorry, 'my keeper made me do it!' isn't good enough for me. She is the Amyrlin Seat, she's the only one that can be held accountable for her own actions.  If she screwed up and Alviarian used that to blackmail her, than that's her own fault. She should have gone to the Hall and had Alviarian deposed immediately.

 

 

[Guest Dreadlord]

I am most dissapointed in Demandred. At the cleansing he encountered Damer Flynn linked with whoever, and fled because they equalled him in strength when linked. I expected more of him then.

 

As for Perrin I thought he was crap all along really not worthy of ta'veren

[PrinceOfRavens]

i use the fact that Elaida is having a palace higher then the white tower made a pretty big evidence that her ego is beyond control. I also think she deposed siuan purely out of jealousy and personal gain.

[Dragon21]

Hey, Gaul is just doing the honorable thing. ;D

 

 

I think Rand is a little disappointing in the later books.

He seems to always be getting in trouble, and needing to be saved by others. Not very hero like. He was always sick for a while, now he has lost a hand. I still like him, just liked him better in, say the first 6 or 7 books. He was great then.

[Perrin88]

I Have to say Im most disappointed in Elayne.

She was okay in earlier books but it was shortly after Matt met her that i began to dislike her, how he described her being so stuck up with her nose always in the air. Then in the later books i just found her chapters to be boring for the most part, when she got in Andor and began her quest to become queen i found the chapters boring and a drag to read

I have to say though in KOD it picked up well and for the first time since crown of swords i  liked reading her chapters

[DemandredFO]

cheyjade, I'm not defending Eliada, I'm just saying her ego and power-hungry attitude got her in over head.  I think she deserves to die for what she did, all I mean is that she is not alone in what happened in the tower.

[safwd]

I originally said no one but i have recently changed my mind.

As a change of pace i started listening to the Eye of the World on CD and though i am not too far in it is pretty good. A bit different and i think it would be better if i hadnt read the books already but not bad. Besides, it lets me know how horribly i was saying everyone name.

 

Anyway, i am most disappointed in Narg. He was a freaking Trollic and he couldnt kill a kid holding a sword that he picked up for the first time 5 minutes earlier. Pretty sad for a Trollic.

[Quixotic]

I'm surprised that noone has mentioned Gawyn yet . That character sets my teeth on the edge ,and only Elaida defeats him in terms of sheer unlikabilty .

[DuDZiK]

Anyway, i am most disappointed in Narg. He was a freaking Trollic and he couldnt kill a kid holding a sword that he picked up for the first time 5 minutes earlier. Pretty sad for a Trollic.

 

Rofl! Yeah, I wondered about that too.

 

I'm surprised that noone has mentioned Gawyn yet . That character sets my teeth on the edge ,and only Elaida defeats him in terms of sheer unlikabilty .

 

I always liked Gawyn, and if no one else has mentioned Gawyn in this thread yet I can only assume its because not that many people dislike him.

[BURN]

I used to just lurk here, but have recently read back through the series after I found out Sanderson would be writing aMoL and decided to actually, you know, post.  :)

 

I think Perrin gets a bad rap. While I agree that the whole "Faile is captured" arc was way too drawn out, I thought the whole scene at Malden was worth the wait. It was typical of Perrin's character. He waited, and waited, and waited, and he completely destroyed a massive force. When it comes right down to it, militarily speaking, what he did was far more impressive than anything Mat or Rand has done thus far, even Mat's faking out the Seanchan army to get through the Narrows.

 

There were tens of thousands of Shaido and 400 Wise one's. That's half of the White Tower. And he took it out with some farmers, three Aes Sedai, two Ashaman, a few hundred Mayeners, some Maidens of the Spear, and Gaul. And 1 wolf brother. And thirty or so young nobles playing Aiel.

 

That's what he had to work with. That he managed to broker a deal with the Seanchan and simultaneously destroy most of Masema's army is a credit, not a mark against him. Consider what it took to break the Shaido the first time. Multiple clans of Aiel, and two t'averen working their magic (Rand and Mat). That was without the Wise One's even being a factor. When Perrin was done with them in his battle, they were running back to the Waste vowing never to come out again.

 

As for the person I find most dissapointing and or annoying, eh, that's an interesting question. I'd have to say Elayne is near the top of the list. She really irritated me in KoD. She got a bunch of people killed based on her interpretation of Min's vision. Just because she may or may not be ok according to the vision doesn't mean her decisions won't get people killed. She never did seem to realize that even after being rescued.

[Majsju]

I'm a little bit disappointed in Hurin for having been away from the story for so long.

 

Other than that, not the slightest disappointed in anyone.

[Angel]

I am not really disappointed in anyone, but I do have some great dislikes for some characters;

First and foremost I really dislike Faile, ever since she appeared in the story. She is pushy, jealous and always wants to be in the center of everything. Perrin should have just let her be kept a prisoner from the Shaido. Even that ordeal wasn't enough to make her a bit more bearable.

 

I also do not like Morgase. She is supposed to be a strong queen, but runs to Lini for advise every other step or forgets her situation entirely and needs to be reminded constantly of who she is and what position she now has. For a strong queen I find her a smallminded person who bases her opinion on the rumours she hears, which by the way, a lot of women seem to do in the WOT. Something that really irritates me. Nobody in the series thinks to try and find out for themselves if what they hear is true and base their opinion on their own findings.

 

So I am not really disappointed in anyone, just in some of their actions and opinions based on only rumours.

[Viezael]

I also really like Gawyn.  :)

 

It's amazing to me that RJ can create so many different characters and have some people hate some and others love them at the same time.  So much like real life...

 

Even though the sheer number of characters in the books sometimes bugs me, it also makes the world much more real to me, I've noticed.  You can see this world from so many different angles--it's cool.

[Dbob]

Hmmm. lets see.

 

It has to be Rand Al'Thor - Evil Dead 4

 

How much punishment can he take?

 

Honestly, I know he's going mad and all, but does he really need to be such a tool. I liked him OK in the beginning, your standard village boy/adventure hero - but by the end of the last book. My god, what a masochist. I know people think he's all stoic, but in fact he whines more than anyone except maybe Elayne.

 

In the beginning I thought he'd hit his obstacles, work through them, come to terms with them, grow, then move on. But no, he's been flogging himself with Every. Little. Thing. for 11 books. It's war, people are going to die, weep, deal, move on. You don't have to like it, but my god, to beat yourself with it forever more?

 

And then there's the whole list thing. OK, chivalry is based on the assumption that women are weak and unable to think or defend themselves. That's not generally true here; it's definitely not true there - especially if you’re an Aes Sedai or a Maiden. How low an opinion of women in general do you have to have, that you can’t bear to let the precious darlings make their own choices, and that you refuse to believe they’re capable of kicking ass – even when the evidence is right there in front of you; and that you feel the need to assume responsibility for their decisions, like they’re toddlers and it’s your fault they got too close to the stove? Then you beat yourself silly with narcissistic guilt to the point that you won’t kill a forsaken, A FORSAKEN – who’s presently killing girlfriend 3, and your friends. HUH!?! What's more important the lives of your friends, or your neurotic feelings? Can this whole sequence possibly get more paternalistic.

 

Egwene: (From the grave) Thanks a lot Rand you selfish ass! I guess your neurosis was worth more than my life. Oh wait, I’m a woman, of course your feelings take precedence over little ole' female me.

 

The Maidens can come fight in my army any time they want.

 

Cadsuanne has it soooooo backwards, he doesn’t need to learn how to laugh and cry – most definitely not the cry part, he’s already past master at that. He needs Tam to come kick him in the head and tell him to stop being a whiny baby.