Taim

[TwoRiversWI]

Is it possible that Taim and Semirhage will be forced to fight in Tarmon Gai'Don while wearing adam?

 

 

I seem to recall that Taim said he would be at Rand's right hand at the last battle...how ironic would it be if he was but forced to be there?

 

We all ready know that a adam was used on a Forsaken to force her to teach what she knew. Why not use them to force them to fight?

 

Everyone is thinking Rand will be collared and forced to fight for the Dark One but it would be a real surprise to see that plan get turned around 180 degrees.

 

TwoRivers Born

 

:'(

[bjclinton]

now THAT would be the kind of twist in the story that i wouldn't expect, but would LOVE to see.

 

Fun thought TwoRivers!

[cloglord]

I seem to recall that Taim said he would be at Rand's right hand at the last battle...how ironic would it be if he was but forced to be there?

 

Its a good thing he didn't say he'd be at this left hand, or he'd be stuck in Northern Altara next to a pile of ash ;)

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

We all ready know that a adam was used on a Forsaken to force her to teach what she knew. Why not use them to force them to fight?

 

 

Using compulsion to foce a channeler to kill (even darkfriends and shadowspawn) would be pretty repugnent to most Aes Sadae.  They might do it in a pinch but if they had time to think about it I belive it would be just too distasteful for them to do.

[Elgee]

Using compulsion to foce a channeler to kill (even darkfriends and shadowspawn) would be pretty repugnent to most Aes Sadae.  They might do it in a pinch but if they had time to think about it I belive it would be just too distasteful for them to do.

 

Are you referring specifically to the the compulsion component of that scenario, Cubarey, rather than the actual killing? Killing, after all, is what the Battle Ajah lives for.  It would seem quite logical for one of the weaker Greens (or even a member of another Ajah, if push comes to shove) to play Suldam to one of the much stronger Forsaken.

[Guest cw]

Using compulsion to foce a channeler to kill (even darkfriends and shadowspawn) would be pretty repugnent to most Aes Sadae.  They might do it in a pinch but if they had time to think about it I belive it would be just too distasteful for them to do.

 

Are you referring specifically to the the compulsion component of that scenario, Cubarey, rather than the actual killing? Killing, after all, is what the Battle Ajah lives for.  It would seem quite logical for one of the weaker Greens (or even a member of another Ajah, if push comes to shove) to play Suldam to one of the much stronger Forsaken.

 

Referring to themselves as the Battle Ajah is a long way from saying that they live to kill.  I think (and hope) the attitude portrayed by that statement would by offensive to any member of a legitimate military body.  Service to and defense of their country is what they live (and die) for.  Just because that service may require them to use deadly force in some situations does not make them homicidal or imply that they live to kill.

 

Heck, Moiraine, a member of the Blue, has probably done more killing than most of the Green Ajah combined.

 

As for using an A'dam to force someone to fight, not a chance.  Nynaeve and Elayne were bearly able to tolerate being linked to Moghedien and they are much tougher than the run of the mill Aes Sedai.

[Elgee]

You're quite right, cw - that will teach me to post when I'm half asleep.  I meant to say they stand ready for Battle.  In no way did I mean to imply that they ENJOY killing - just that their chosen profession is battle. But also bear in mind that the people of Randland might not be as ... pacifistic (I'm not sure I'm using the right word) as some people in, lets say, the USA or Canada might be. One can't really compare warriors of that time with the soldiers of today - the difference in societal values is too great. One can't even compare soldiers in Africa (where I'm from) to those in North America, for that matter.

 

Heck, Moiraine, a member of the Blue, has probably done more killing than most of the Green Ajah combined.

 

Do you think so? One would think that the Greens would spend a lot of time in the Blight, fighting Shadowspawn.  Although, if you take into consideration the Black Moiraine killed in ANS, and the various Forsaken she's taken out, you could be correct, as far as killing humans go.

 

Nynaeve and Elayne were bearly able to tolerate being linked to Moghedien and they are much tougher than the run of the mill Aes Sedai.

 

I would disagree with that statement.  Those two are both young, inexperienced, and not yet toughened by the harsh realities of life. No-one doubts their bravery, or that they would fare well under life-threatening conditions, but I doubt they yet have the emotional callouses (sp?) someone who has lived for three or four hundred years has built up.

 

We could have a good debate about that, though I think we might be wandering off topic  :)

 

[Guest cw]

You're quite right, cw - that will teach me to post when I'm half asleep.  I meant to say they stand ready for Battle.  In no way did I mean to imply that they ENJOY killing - just that their chosen profession is battle. But also bear in mind that the people of Randland might not be as ... pacifistic (I'm not sure I'm using the right word) as some people in, lets say, the USA or Canada might be. One can't really compare warriors of that time with the soldiers of today - the difference in societal values is too great. One can't even compare soldiers in Africa (where I'm from) to those in North America, for that matter.

 

I likely overreacted a little to your post too.

 

Heck, Moiraine, a member of the Blue, has probably done more killing than most of the Green Ajah combined.

 

Do you think so? One would think that the Greens would spend a lot of time in the Blight, fighting Shadowspawn.  Although, if you take into consideration the Black Moiraine killed in ANS, and the various Forsaken she's taken out, you could be correct, as far as killing humans go.

 

Yes I do.  One of the things that set Moiraine apart was that she spent most of her time since being Raised to the Shawl out of Tar Valon.  Many Aes Sedai think she spends too much time outside Tar Valon.  She is well known in Sheinar and the Borderlands and has spent a lot of time there.  I get the impression that she spends more time there than any of the other Aes Sedai.  As a result, even when caught flat footed by Trollocs in the Two Rivers, she can react quickly.

 

There actually isn't that much evidence even many of the Greens spend much time outside Tar Valon.  I'd suspect that, even among the Green, less than half have ever seen a Trolloc, much less a Myrdraal.  Even if they did make forays into the Blight their Warder's would do most of the fighting.  It would be too dangerous for them to channel as it would just bring more trouble.

 

Nynaeve and Elayne were bearly able to tolerate being linked to Moghedien and they are much tougher than the run of the mill Aes Sedai.

 

I would disagree with that statement.  Those two are both young, inexperienced, and not yet toughened by the harsh realities of life. No-one doubts their bravery, or that they would fare well under life-threatening conditions, but I doubt they yet have the emotional callouses (sp?) someone who has lived for three or four hundred years has built up.

 

We could have a good debate about that, though I think we might be wandering off topic  :)

 

 

Its also that lack of complacency that gets built up over the years that makes them willing to try things that the other Aes Sedai won't.  Plus, in the short time since they left home, they have seen more of the world and experienced more than the majority of Aes Sedai ever do in there 100 plus years wearing the Shawl.  If anything, they would be better able to deal with the a'dam than many of the older Sisters.

[Elgee]

I don't want to hog the thread, so just a few last comments: We don't hear many stories about other Aes Sedai, so we can't really say what they've experienced.

 

I agree it would be dangerous for them to Channel in the Blight, but I think they might see quite a bit of action in the Borderlands themselves.

 

With regards to the Wondergirls: I feel otherwise, but I don't have any evidence to back that up  :D

[flippinaces]

 

Are you referring specifically to the the compulsion component of that scenario, Cubarey, rather than the actual killing? Killing, after all, is what the Battle Ajah lives for.  It would seem quite logical for one of the weaker Greens (or even a member of another Ajah, if push comes to shove) to play Suldam to one of the much stronger Forsaken.

 

except that the forsaken would be dead in Aes Sedai hands, since the first order of business would be "trial", then stilling, then execution, with limited breaks to strap an a'dam on her.

[Guest leebarr]

I would love to see that. Hope it happens

[PrinceOfRavens]

sometimes i wonder why aes sedai dont just line up at the blight and hurl lighting alot in the blight :P

[Guest durram laddel cham]

yeah, that would be nice: "screw you Shadowspan!"

[SqueeEGA]

Personally, i think the decision to do this would be left to rand, and i doubt that he would turn down any weapon he could get his hands on.  i'd assume that, if given the opportunity, would use the DO's weapons against him.  TG is going to be an uphill battle.  lets just hope he doesnt turn into 'old burnsides' when the time comes.

[Daedallus]

IMO taim is not a dark friend, and when push comes to shove, he will be fighting  for the light in the last battle without the need for provocation.

 

I know a lot of people just assume he is a darkfriend, but he just seems like a power hungry opportunist to me, and rand and/or logain will either put him in his place eventually, or he will die in the power-struggle.

 

a single quote that may be common randland lore for all we know, and a desire to kill one's direct superior and take his place do not a darkfriend make.

 

As for Aes Sedai actually takeing part in the fight along the border. It seems to me that most aes sedai are much too busy playing politics and aserting their superiority over the non-channeling population to actually take part in any fighting healing, or other "mundane" tasks.

 

On a tangent with that thought.. why is it that so many aes sedai are concentrated in the tower? Aes Sedai "servents of all" there should be a dozen Aes sedai in every major city doing nothing but healing the sick and other tasks that would be so much easier with a bit of the one power.

 

 

[Vambram]

a single quote that may be common randland lore for all we know, and a desire to kill one's direct superior and take his place do not a darkfriend make.

 

Ahh, but when Taim's "direct superior" is Rand al`Thor, the Dragon Reborn; then doesn't that make a real difference as to deciding whether or not Taim is a darkfriend, and also a dreadlord?

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

acting against the DR doesn't mean you're a darkfriend...unless you think ALMOST EVERY SINGLE noble from Tear, Cairheiren, and andor are DFs

[Luckers]

Taim's actions are a little more specific than that of the general self-serving noble. His activities have not merely been against Rand, but they have been in line with the Shadow's commands at the time. Witness Kisman's thoughts about Taim, Demandred and Moridin's orders.

 

Furthermore we have more than the 'let the lord of chaos' quote--which by the way Pevara specifically notes that she had never heard before. We have Taim using Forsaken mannerisms--indicating a close long term interaction with one. We have Taim wearing Moridin's colours and using Sammael and Be'lal's symbol of the lightning bolts clutched in a fist. We have the fact that known darkfriends are obeying Taim's orders--orders which match that coming down from the Shadow. We have the curious incident in which Taim 'saved' Rand from the Grey Man, early on and we have the attack on the manor house in Tear.

 

Taim may or may not have been raised Chosen--i think its a safe bet that he was, but its not certain. But he is a darkfriend.

[safwd]

I love the idea and would really like to see it happen. And i think that there is a chance that it will.

And dont assume that an Aes Sedai has to use the Adam. There are plenty of channelers around now that arent Aes Sedai. Wise Ones would do it im sure, Wind finders might, The Kin would not want to but might, plus there are a few Aes Sedai who would probably do it, i.e. Cadsuane. And if none of those options work for you there are a bunch of Suldam standing around that will be working for the good guys in the last battle.

[Luckers]

I actually think that of all the groups the Wise Ones are the least likely to use an a'dam. They have too much integrity to lower themselves merely to control an enemy.

[elmis]

I wouldn't want either Taim or Semirhage on an a'dam in a battle situation. The trained damane only work because they've pretty much been brainwashed into co-working with the sul'dam. That's what they live for. A bit of resistance in the wrong moment, and you could have some serious problems. Even the simplest things, like refusing to walk or whatever.

 

The a'dam of cuendillar idea rocks, haha. With the lock fusing shut, you'd have some serious problems getting it off. ;)

[safwd]

sometimes i wonder why aes sedai dont just line up at the blight and hurl lighting alot in the blight :P

The Blight appears to be around 3000 miles. There are less then 1000 Aes Sedai. I dont think that would be tha effective

[Daedallus]

would still be more usefull than 500 of the most powerful known channelers in the world at any given time sitting in a pile of bricks playing politics with one another.

 

remember Eye of the world? the Shienerians would have given their right nut to have moiraine grace their column in the coming battle, it gave them hope of actually winning.