ZOMG! TAIM IS A FORSAKEN!!!

[frawggy]

Okay, this may sound odd, but i've pieced it together...

 

Taim is a forsaken, who has been placed into another body.  Whether it's Asmodean or one of the other dead guys i don't know.. 

Here's my reasoning..

 

Saldaea is in the borderlands.

The Great Lord has pulled some bodies (the best that could be taken from the borderlands) to stash some of the forsaken reborn into..

 

When rand is talking to Taim, Taim says something about the "So Called Aiel" 

 

This is just after Rand was bonded against his will in The Lord of Chaos...  Just after Verin and Allana were at the inn in caemlin..

 

Which brings me to Verin...  Why does she care if the girls she brought from the two rivers were virgins??????????????  She's gonna sacrifice virgins to the dark one..  i just KNOW it! 

 

Any whoo....  The only people who have mentioned the aiel as the "So Called" aiel, were feorsaken...

 

Bring it, naysayers!  Bring it!

 

 

[Dragon21]

Well, we know he isn't Demandred. As for Asmodean, I don't think he's coming back. I am not sure it is possible he is a forsaken returned since he has been around (we knew he was a fasle dragon before we actually met him in the books)through the whole series, and at the beginning all the forsaken were still alive. I think it is more likely his knowledge comes from being associated with one of the forsaken. I think it is very possible that he is working with one of them.

[Baldar]

So, which on is he? Would have to be someone who wields Saidin.

 

Be'lal? Nope, he was balefired.

Asmo? Very highly unlikely, the Dark One stated he "died the final death"

Rahvin? Balefired.

Sammael? Very dead, Jordan said he couldn't come back.

Osan'gar? Dead, again.

Demandred? Jordan himself denied this possibility, and during the cleansing of saidin, in Winter's Heart, Demandred does not recognize Flinn, Taim would have.

Aran'gar? Full time job w/ Egwene's group, until "she" was found out.

Moridin? Very doubtful, someone would notice the saa and other True Power side-effects, not to mention his close connection with Rand.

 

 

Taim is just a darkfriend, likely to be a dreadlord come TG. Probably works for Demandred, directly.

[frawggy]

hmm..

 

new dread lord then, with something of histroy of aiel at fingertips..

 

I'm angry now, my extreme revelation was stamped down in seconds.

 

[Dragon21]

Don't be angry. That's why we discuss things. :)

Glad you brought it up.

[Safia al-Maaz]

Hey you tried ^^  No one has yet downed your theory of Verin's sacrificing virgins, you still have a chance :P

[RobertAlexWillis]

Actually, you're probably right, as far as the title goes.  Taim probably is a new Forsaken.  He's just become Forsaken on his own, not as one of the others transplanted.

 

Taim has probably been educated by one of the Forsaken, accounting for his attitudes toward modern channelers and the Aiel.  Ishamael is the most likely candidate, with Demandred the next most likely (and possibly, he got some training from both of them).

 

About the only real question is, was he a Darkfriend all along, or was he forced via the 13 Myrddraal/13 channeler method?

[Baldar]

hmm..

 

new dread lord then, with something of histroy of aiel at fingertips..

 

I'm angry now, my extreme revelation was stamped down in seconds.

 

 

Don't feel bad, you did find the close connection between Taim and one of the Forsaken (likely Demandred).

[Baldar]

 

About the only real question is, was he a Darkfriend all along, or was he forced via the 13 Myrddraal/13 channeler method?

 

Personally, I think the latter, since it would have happened around the first time the procedure was mentioned. Feels like a continuity thing.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I personally think he's been one all along, but I could easily see it going to other way.  There's certainly not enough to be certain ... some people don't even think he's a Darkfriend.

[Moghedian]

 

About the only real question is, was he a Darkfriend all along, or was he forced via the 13 Myrddraal/13 channeler method?

 

 

I think that he was forced to the Drak side and he is NOT a Forsaken reincarnated, however he is a Drealord.

[Guest Dreadlord]

i think taim is simply working for demandred. in one of the books im sure its aran'gar that says to osangar "It was your job to watch Al'Thor, yours and Demandreds." taim is definitely not forsaken in my oppinion otherwise we would have had definite word in the books. a new forsaken is too big a thing to keep quiet

[Tyrell]

Im crazy enough tothink Taim may still be Be'lal; although I agree it is far more likely that he is just himself and a Chosen or atleast high ranking dreadlord in his own right.

[Guest Dreadlord]

belal was balefired by moiraine which means he cant be reincarnated. the only ones who have come back so far are sihamael (moridin) lanfear (cyndane) aginor (arangar) and balthamel (osangar). none of the others will come back, with sammael as a possible exception

[Guest Dreadlord]

ye i meant ishameal before anyone picks up on it!!

[Tyrell]

Well... IIRC there is a quote somewhere explaining that the Dark One can't bring people back who are Balefired because he only has a limited time window to grab their soul before it goes back to the wheel, and if they get killed back far enough in time then he never gets a chance.

 

Consider that Moiraine is very weak, I recall her saying that she could only kill someone back seconds in time with Balefire. Maybe it wasn't enough to prevent the Dark One from bringing Be'lal back sneekily.

 

Like I said, I only consider it a remote possibility, I just think that Be'lal got shafted so badly in terms of the how long he was around before he became perma-toast that he deserves a chance  :D

[Guest Dreadlord]

the dark one knows his limits. belal is gone, never to return. taim is definitley not belal. taim is his own man, with his own identity, as much as logain, for example, or anyone else

[Shard]

I think it far more likely that Taim is a New Forsaken then one of the others reincarnated or posing as Taim. It makes sense with the losing of so many Forsaken so far that some should be added to those ranks.

[Guest Dreadlord]

i just think taim is a darkfriend who can channel, and that for his services the dark one has protected him against the taint. other than that he is serving them well but i dont think he has been given any big titles or status yet

[Mr Ares]

The Be'lal can be reborn theory comes from this:

Week 3 Question: There are many theories that attempt to create a connection of time duration to the transmigration of the dead Forsaken. Are there time and/or power constraints on the Dark One's ability to transmigrate souls?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: There are definitely time constraints on the Dark One's power to transmigrate a soul. The soul doesn't have to be secured immediately - that is, the Dark One doesn't have to be ready to snatch the soul at the instant of death - but the longer that passes after the death, the less chance that the Dark One will be able to secure the soul. Someone who has been killed with balefire in actuality died before the apparent time of his or her death, and thus the window of opportunity for the Dark One to secure that soul for transmigration is gone before the Dark One can know that the soul must be secured unless the amount of balefire used is very small. Remember that the more balefire is used, the further back the target's thread is burned out of the pattern.

 

After the soul is secured, then a suitable body must be acquired and stripped of the (former) owner's memory and soul to make way for the favored one. By the way, what constitutes a suitable body from the Dark One's perspective is not that of the recipient. Certainly Aginor would never have chosen to be reincarnated in his, shall we say, less than imposing body, nor would the womanizing Balthamel have chosen to be reincarnated as a beautiful woman. It was only chance that Moridin ended up in a body that is young, fairly good looking and physically imposing. Those things simply don't matter to the Dark One. But the body has to be basically healthy and sound, and neither too young nor too old. After all, the Dark One wants his servants to be effective, and a body that meets those basic requirements is more desirable than one that doesn't. Since there is no stockpile of such bodies, the only way for someone to die and immediately be reincarnated would be a matter of pure chance. That is, the death occurred when a suitable body was on hand for some other reason.

 

There are a few other limits and constraints, but I won't go into them here, since I may want to use them in the books, and I would rather they come as a surprise if I do.

http://wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=152

Personally, I'm in the Taim as a new Chosen camp, I think that would be a bigger twist than just "he's a Dreadlord", and Be'lal reborn would be too random, like the author just made this up at the last minute, as opposed to his usual method of foreshadowing important stuff.

[Shoulderthumper]

i just think taim is a darkfriend who can channel, and that for his services the dark one has protected him against the taint. other than that he is serving them well but i dont think he has been given any big titles or status yet

 

Is that not essentially the definition of a Forsaken?

[aevogt]

No, Darkfriends who can channel are dreadlords.

 

The Chosen allowed the DO to tie himself to them in return for immortality and, for the men, protection from the taint. When Rand cuts Asmodean's ties to the DO, Amso was no longer a forsaken, "merely" a darkfriend who can channel.

[krelianzg]

 

Be'lal? Nope, he was balefired.

 

 

The DO is quite specific about mentioning only Rahvin and Asmodean when he mentions Forsaken we'll never ever see again, despite the fact that Be'lal had died by this time as well. I've believed for quite some time now that Moiraine's balefire wasn't strong enough and the DO was able to snag him for resurrection.

 

Perhaps he's been placed in a new body, perhaps he's being saved for use exclusively at the Last Battle. Perhaps the DO won't find a good use for him before TG.

 

I don't believe he's Taim, but I do think his soul was salvaged when he died.

[madoc comadrin]

I think Taim's Taim,but probably a darkfriend. But I think that he was forced by the13 Myrddraal/13 channeler method to become a darkfriend, and afterwerds teached by one of the Forsaken. Because we never heard who actualy saved Taim from the Aes Sedai, and then its moste likely that it would have bin darkfriends, because Taims followers thought he died in the end of the second book, when Rand and Ishmael were seen on the sky?

[Tyrell]

No, Darkfriends who can channel are dreadlords.

 

The Chosen allowed the DO to tie himself to them in return for immortality and, for the men, protection from the taint.

 

Dreadlord is a term from the Trolloc Wars, Forsaken is from the War Of Shadow. IIRC not all forsaken are chosen, but all chosen are forsaken. Also I'll point out that there's no evidence that the Chosen have actually been given immortality, though the Dark One has brought a few of them back from death, he hasn't actually stopped them from dying. Personally I don't think he's capable of giving immortality in the usual sense of "won't die of getting old" although it's quite apparrent that he is capable of bringing people back from the dead.