shaidar haran = fain's lapdog

[Tyrell]

Negative.

 

We have PoVs from them both, they think differently. Plus SH has abilities that Myrdraal have, like the shadow edge traveling thing.

[ignavus1223]

My mistake about the fog...

 

But we've seen Fain's power grow over time and we haven't heard from him in a while.  He has powers through touch without the dagger, the dagger itself is dangerous, and he can create illusions.. 

 

He might be able to sneak up on SH with the help of some illusions...

[Majsju]

Fain was face to face with Rand in Far Madding, with Rand unable to channel. Yet, after Fains illusion failed, he resorted to slashing around with his dagger.

 

With his hate for Rand, wouldn't he have pulled out whatever freaky abilities he has when given such an opportunity?

 

Seems like he's not that powerful after all, at least not in single combat. And if he can't take Rand, he most certainly can't take SH.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Negative.

 

We have PoVs from them both, they think differently. Plus SH has abilities that Myrdraal have, like the shadow edge traveling thing.

UNQUOTE

 

Ah but...Ishamael thought he Was the Dark One as we all know, so Moridins PoV may change...split personality? Plus they have never been seen together even though they have been in the same place at the same time

[Majsju]

Moridin is a human, Ishamael recycled.

 

SH is a somehow enhanced myrdraal, with a part of the DOs essence somehow implemented.

 

When SH "chats" with Graendal in POD, one of its orders is to visit Moridin. Odd order if they had been the same.

[Ahaz Flagg]

Fain was face to face with Rand in Far Madding, with Rand unable to channel. Yet, after Fains illusion failed, he resorted to slashing around with his dagger.

 

With his hate for Rand, wouldn't he have pulled out whatever freaky abilities he has when given such an opportunity?

 

Seems like he's not that powerful after all, at least not in single combat. And if he can't take Rand, he most certainly can't take SH.

 

I think you underestimate the insanity of Lord Fain, Fain wants to be the one to kill Rand.  It is all consuming, he would feel cheated if he used a trick to do this deed.

[RobertAlexWillis]

It is all consuming, he would feel cheated if he used a trick to do this deed.

 

A trick like say ... I don't know ... killing two guys that Rand is after then making illusions of them to draw him into a trap?

 

Hmmm ....

 

Fain will kill Rand any way he can.  If he could do it with his "funky powers", he would.  He didn't, which indicates that the can't.

 

Fain is most dangerous when striking from stealth at an already occupied opponent.  That is how he got his slash in on Rand.  If Fain can catch Shaidar Haran while he's engaged with a serious opponent, and actually cut him with the dagger, then, and only then, am I betting on Fain.  In virtually any other scenario, Shaidar Haran will mop the proverbial floor with our favorite little madman.

[trakand_01]

I forget, did Rand recognise Fain? Surely he'd have been more wary than to simply start fighting with... Riatin?... when he knew Fain was about?

 

I know afterwards, when he wakes up in the Sun Palace, he knows the dagger, he knows it was 'Mat's Dagger' and that's why he's so badly injured by it, but i dont remember if he recognises 'Master Mordeth' as being Fain...

[Ahaz Flagg]

Trying to trick or draw Rand near him, so he can be the one to kill him.  I remember his POV, he most certianly wants to be the one to kill Rand.  I have realy seen nothing of SH to indicate that he is all powerful, more feaarsome than you run of the mill fade to be sure.  I would think those who depend on channeling might have alot to fear of him.  But, Fain has no fear, he can not channel.  He would make SH his little toy, and smile all the time!!

 

 

 

[RobertAlexWillis]

I forget, did Rand recognise Fain? Surely he'd have been more wary than to simply start fighting with... Riatin?... when he knew Fain was about?

 

We're not 100 percent sure, because we get the scene from Min's POV (she sees no viewings, and thinks he seems vaguely familiar).  My guess is Rand did recognize him, but since he was in full on "ME DRAGON REBORN ME INVINCIBLE" mode, he just took it in stride.

 

Our insane little friend was introduced by name as Jeraal Mordeth.  Its hard to believe that Rand wouldn't make the connection.

[Tyrell]

I thought he recognised him and said something like "he burned my home, killed my friends etc because it was my home and they were my friends etc. and I've just put a craplot of gold on his head"

 

I may have imagined it.

 

Lemme go find out and get back to ya'll. (Yes, I just used the wordd "ya'll" please do not make snide remarks).

 

Here it is:

 

"Mordeth," Rand said. His eyes were locked to Toram Riatin and the skinny fellow. "His name is Padan Fain, and there are one hundred thousand golden crowns on his head."

Caraline nearly dropped her goblet. "Queens have been randsomed for less. What did he do?"

He ravaged my home because it was my home." Rand's face was frozen, his voice ice. "He brought Trollocs to kill my friends because they were my friends. He is a Darkfriend, and a dead man."

[RobertAlexWillis]

Well ... there you have it.

[ignavus1223]

SH's powers use the TP.  It's possible Fain's powers would also include a level of protection from the TP, since it's repelled by Fain's evil.  At least enough for him to sneak up on SH and cut him with the knife. 

[aevogt]

I've changed my mind on this one.  SH will get smoked by either Ny or Cadsuane.  His presence renders the True Source undetectable.  Since both of these women are currently in possesion of Wells, either will have perfect advantage against the Super Fade.  Especially considering his assumption that he is defended from channelers by blocking the source.

[nophone]

SH's powers use the TP.  It's possible Fain's powers would also include a level of protection from the TP, since it's repelled by Fain's evil.  At least enough for him to sneak up on SH and cut him with the knife. 

 

From the way that Saidin was cleansed by Rand, I do not believe this to be true. As I understand it, he chose the location to clean the source because Fain's evil and the Darkone's evil are "enemy's"... if you will.. that the taint pealed off Saidin and piled up on Shadar Logath because it was inherently attracted to it? No?

[nophone]

I've changed my mind on this one.  SH will get smoked by either Ny or Cadsuane.  His presence renders the True Source undetectable.  Since both of these women are currently in possession of Wells, either will have perfect advantage against the Super Fade.  Especially considering his assumption that he is defended from channelers by blocking the source.

 

Good theory, but the problem I have with it is that when SH is around... the channelers were no longer aware of the source... even when someone is shielded, or severed from the source they can still detect it, they just have no access to it... IMHO this means that even with wells around a channeler would still not be able to detect the source... I'll be honest, I'm not fully confident in this hypothesis, it's been a while since I read the part where they visit the city where they need the wells (so long in fact that i can't remember what it's called, please excuse that fact). Does the source just vanish completely out of existance as far as Rand and others are concerened there? How about in the stedding?

[SheaththeSword]

In Cadsuane's native city(-state), Far Madding, there is a massive ter'angreal which replicate the effect of a stedding as far as the OP is concerned. The chanllers describe entering the exclusion zone as like a cloud blocking out the sun - just out of site, but still definately present. Just inaccessible.

 

The guide however, gives a slightly different version (which leads me to believe the third age scholar who wrote it was not AS):

 

In the Hall of the Counsels there is a ter'angreal known as the guardian. This ter'angreal simulates the effects of an Ogier Stedding, rendering it impossible for channellers to sense or touch the True Source. The area of influence is far greater for men than for women. The ter'angreal will also pinpoint the location of anyone channelling in the vicinity.

 

IIRC when entering a stedding a similar 'sun-behind-clouds' feeling is described.