Blinded by politics

[krelianzg]

So I was just re-reading the chapter in CoT where Egwene's AS are discussing the BT and their belief that the Forsaken were behind the saidar/saidin beacon at the Cleansing, and it got me thinking;

 

It's really astounding how rigidly Egwene and Elayne are clinging to politics and tradition and adamantly refuse to be in contact with Rand. Elayne I understand to a greater degree, since the fate of her country and the legitimacy of her rule is at stake, but Egwene appears to be justifying her decision based on Tower law (safety of the Amyrlin and all that), while she's done nothing but defy and change Tower law since she became Amyrlin.

 

The fact that these two leaders, who control pretty much the only two consolidated powers (save for the actual Tower) in Randland not held by Rand or the Seanchan, would throw out the benefits possible in their close personal relationships with the most powerful man in the world really grates on me at times.

 

Not sure if I'm really going anywhere with this, it just really irks me at the moment.

[Majsju]

Egwene as Amyrlin is hardly allowed to go off looking for Rand.  Especially not since she's been quite busy leading a rebellion the past few books.

 

She has the same reason for wanting to keep Rand out of her business as Elayne does.How do you think the rest of the White Tower would look at her if she used Rands help to overthrow Elaida? She would be the figurehead she feared in the beginning, at best.

 

And it's not like Rand has dropped by Egwenes camp for a check-up, other than sending Mat there to "save" her.

[krelianzg]

Oh, I understand the why of it, at least as far as avoiding something drastic, like asking to borrow some Asha'man for the siege of Tar Valon, but they must realize that Rand and his personal cadre of Aes Sedai and Asha'man are much more in tune with and up to date regarding world events (since they're personally responsible for a good percentage of them), and they certainly have a better handle on the activities of the Forsaken.

 

I don't see why it wouldn't be sensible to send an embassy to Cairhien to say something along the lines of, "Rand, we have no intention of getting in your business and we'd like you to stay out of ours, but you seem to run into the Forsaken every couple weeks, maybe you could help us clarify what this horrible beacon that had us pissing our pants is all about?"

[DemandredFO]

Regarding Rand dropping by the rebels, he fears, rightly in my belief, that circles would be forming all around him and they would imprison him like Elida wanted to do.

[Majsju]

don't see why it wouldn't be sensible to send an embassy to Cairhien to say something along the lines of, "Rand, we have no intention of getting in your business and we'd like you to stay out of ours, but you seem to run into the Forsaken every couple weeks, maybe you could help us clarify what this horrible beacon that had us pissing our pants is all about?"

 

Ah yes, because things turned out sooo well last time they tried to send sisters to talk to Rand...

 

And even if Egwene had decided to send sisters to talk to Rand, where would they have gone? Rand has been hiding since the attack on him in Cairhien, only resurfacing for a few days here and there.

[krelianzg]

And even if Egwene had decided to send sisters to talk to Rand, where would they have gone? Rand has been hiding since the attack on him in Cairhien, only resurfacing for a few days here and there.

 

They don't know that though. At this point (end of CoT), the rebels still think Rand is just hopping around his controlled territories being a big scary Man Who Channels.

 

It's puzzling to me why the rebels have such murky knowledge of what's going on in the world. I'd think that the discovery of Traveling, combined with their already set-up networks, would keep them constantly abreast of everything going on, at least in the major cities. Rand has managed to keep himself informed about pretty much everything going on, except for Caemlyn, which he has intentionally distanced himself from (though he still has Bashere and Bael to keep an eye out), so I don't see why the AS have had such a hard time.

[Davian93]

Actually Egwene didn't send the Embassy, it was sent well before she was elected Amyrlin.  As for the rest...you're actually surprised that Egwene and Elayne are acting stupid???

[yankee]

Yes, the fact that they are avoiding each other is nagging at me, too.

 

But I think it is a major theme of the Wheel of Time: Lack of communication. It would be possible to meet in secret. A meeting between the party from teh two Rivers (Egwene, Rand, Perrin, Mat, Nynaeve). They should trust each other far enough to set up some kind of meeting. And if they don't they should exchange messages using messangers. Of course they seem to lack the knowlegdge of cryptographie which does not simplify the task, but it does not make it impossible.

Nynaeve, Egwene and Rand are all able to enter the World of dreams. So they could meet there. Of course they cannot do that without communicating in the first place.

Anyway: They seem to avoid communication as if communication was evil itself. If everyone knew and believed that Rand cleansed saidin and that the beacon was his doing it could free a lot of people wasting to much time worrying ;-).

I think Rand is using the fact that he cleansed saiding not enough too support public relations. I would have understood if I tried to keep secret that saidin was cleansed at all, but since that is not the case, why didn't he tell the world who did it?

 

Anyway: Learn something our of it for your own life: Make use of the marvolous possibilities that are given too you be the means of communication :-).

[BrainFireBob]

Nynaeve knows Rand's been entering the World of Dreams in the flesh- she Healed him there once, after he battled Rahvin, if you'll recall.

 

You can also find those who know they're in the World, if you know what you're doing- which Egwene might.

 

It's a matter of how scared Nynaeve is to detail that episode.

 

That said, I believe Rand uses the World of Dreams and his ability to read "between the lines," as well as having placed people whose assessment he trusts (such as Dobraine), to know what's going on. Rand's doing it sans spy network. I too have always been irritated that the Aes Sedai seem incapable of the same.

[Majsju]

They don't know that though. At this point (end of CoT), the rebels still think Rand is just hopping around his controlled territories being a big scary Man Who Channels

 

Ie, they wouldn't have a clue where to look if they wanted to find him.

Again considering that Egwene is quite busy overthrowing Elaida, something that most definitly will benefit Rand, sending sisters out for a random search is not exactly a good idea.

 

But then, Yankee hit dead on, lack of communication is an intended theme to the books. But for some people it is more understandable than for others.

 

Like Egwene, she has to step very careful when it comes to dealing with Rand. Do not think that any of the sitters will forget for a second that she and Rand has a past. Any suggestions coming from her regarding approaching Rand would be so thoroughly dissected by the Hall that TG would be over before a decision was made, just because they can not be sure she will put the White Tower first in all situations.

 

And of course, even if a contact was allowed, Egwene would not be allowed to go herself, and she would have little say in who would go. Inly thing she can be quite sure of is that it would be none of the sisters she knows she can trust.

[krelianzg]

I guess what really gets to me is that Egwene knowing Rand was one of the selling points of her election to Amyrlin,, yet since then the rebel AS have said nothing on that front. It reeks of incompetence, or at least indifference, which doesn't make sense given their aims.

[TurboZ]

I've mentioned a few times that the lack of communication is lame. They can all get to TAR one way or another and they could easily organize a little pow-wow. The only problem is that Rand wards his dreams, so communicating that way is useless. He would have to be told in the waking world about it first. As for Perrin, he has his head way up his own arse IMO.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Egwene has no idea where Rand is.  She can't talk to him.  And she's basically had no idea since she actually took control as Amyrlin (in Murandy ... by that time Rand had already started hiding).

 

Elayne wanted to go talk to him, during the Cleansing.  But Aviendha's premonition stopped her.  She could probably find him now, if she put her mind to it, but she's been just a wee bit busy.

 

The fact that a period of just a few months has been spread out over several books, with several overlapping flashbacks from one to the other, has given some people a slightly skewed sense of timing.  These people have all been VERY busy.  Without telephones and email, communicating in a timely is very difficult, even with Traveling.  That doesn't even bring in the political ramifications of contact.

 

No, while the lack of communication is a literary theme, to some degree, to a much larger degree its simply realism.

 

They can all get to TAR one way or another and they could easily organize a little pow-wow.

 

Not really.  Egwene and Elayne could probably talk that way, but as you point out, Rand wards his dreams  (which is pretty necessary ... he does it for a reason), Mat's medallion has the same effect, and Perrin  being a Wolfbrother isn't really common knowledge ... Egwene has seen him there, a couple of times, but doesn't really know that he can come and go basically at will and use T'A'R in alot of the same ways she can.

 

It is a little surprising that Egwene hasn't at least tried to talk to Nynaeve yet ... but Egwene is very focused on settling the rebellion first, without Rand's help (for obvious political reasons).  Once she does that, she probably does plan to initiate some kind of contact ... of course, I personally think events are going to outpace her because of the Seanchan attack on the Tower and Rand's treaty with Tuon ... but we'll just have to see about that.

 

The point is, its just not as simple as "Hey, lets all go for a picnic in T'A'R, and while we're there, we'll all tell each other the things we need to know!"

[yankee]

Egwene has no idea where Rand is.  She can't talk to him.  And she's basically had no idea since she actually took control as Amyrlin (in Murandy ... by that time Rand had already started hiding).

I disagree. One reason is that I think that they should have started meeting earlier. Before Rand started hiding. Rand did show up here and there. Egwene could have used Aviendha or actually any random dude to deliver an (encrypted) message to Rand to ask him for meeting.

Egwene, Nynaeve and, Leane and Suian did a much better job in this fashion in the past.

 

Elayne wanted to go talk to him, during the Cleansing.  But Aviendha's premonition stopped her.  She could probably find him now, if she put her mind to it, but she's been just a wee bit busy.

Well, if she could just find a single hour of her time to find Rand (it would be no trouble for her to find him quickly because of the bond) it would spare her hours of other work that she has to do for her lack of knowlegde.

 

The fact that a period of just a few months has been spread out over several books, with several overlapping flashbacks from one to the other, has given some people a slightly skewed sense of timing.  These people have all been VERY busy.  Without telephones and email, communicating in a timely is very difficult, even with Traveling.  That doesn't even bring in the political ramifications of contact

Yes. They are very busy. And they would be less busy if they would share knowlegde by meeting in regular intervals.

 

No, while the lack of communication is a literary theme, to some degree, to a much larger degree its simply realism.

I agree, that it is realism. Even in the 21st century where all of the interesting things made possible by cheap electronic devices exist people tend to ignore the power of communication. It is so furstrating if you spent hours of work to archieve something and then you see everything going down the drain just because people avoid to communicate with you. I fear that my interpretation of realism is quite different from yours.

 

They can all get to TAR one way or another and they could easily organize a little pow-wow.

 

Not really.  Egwene and Elayne could probably talk that way, but as you point out, Rand wards his dreams  (which is pretty necessary ... he does it for a reason), Mat's medallion has the same effect, and Perrin  being a Wolfbrother isn't really common knowledge ... Egwene has seen him there, a couple of times, but doesn't really know that he can come and go basically at will and use T'A'R in alot of the same ways she can.

So? Why does nobody know of Perrin being a Wolfbrother? Right: Lack of communication. There were plenty of chances for Perrin to tell the others. But for some reason I tries to keep it secret. I understand that he is afraid to tell unknown people of his ability since he will be seen as a darkfriend or worse. But he could tell his friends!

Of course Rand has got to ward his dreams, but he knows how to Enter T'A'R with a gateway or somthing similar. With the one power anyway. He could take part in meetings. Of course that would have to be arranged previously but I do not think that this would be that hard.

 

It is a little surprising that Egwene hasn't at least tried to talk to Nynaeve yet ... but Egwene is very focused on settling the rebellion first, without Rand's help (for obvious political reasons).  Once she does that, she probably does plan to initiate some kind of contact ... of course, I personally think events are going to outpace her because of the Seanchan attack on the Tower and Rand's treaty with Tuon ... but we'll just have to see about that.

I understand why Egwene wants to "rescue" the white tower without Rand's help. But that is no reason to avoid Rand at all. Mind, the meetings should be secret.

And yes, the events will outpace Egwene. Rand fought several battles against the Seanchan. He could supply useful strategic information but of course he does not know that the White Tower is in danger and Egwene does not know that Rand is in the position to supply useful information. If they'd just talk with each other!

 

The point is, its just not as simple as "Hey, lets all go for a picnic in T'A'R, and while we're there, we'll all tell each other the things we need to know!"

Not, not quite. But close enough. They should have done that long since when it would have been that easy. Perhaps they could not have used T'A'R for that, but they should have arranged some way to exchange messages safely. In the meanwhile it grew harder, but it would still be possible.

[YoungKing]

I never really understood why it wasn't made common knowledge that the Taint had been removed...

 

Nyneave could easily include Rand in TAR, she seems to actually have some sense in the later books, and Rand has known about the meetings in TAR for a while.

 

You can't say it is all Egwene and Aes Sedai though, Rand, Mat, and Perrin are lost to each other even though merely thinking about each other brings up a nice image of the other. Gateway + Ta'veren = Win.

 

It's worth noting that at the point the story is at now, Rand's distrust of Aes Sedai is probably so great that he wouldn't trust Egwene.

 

YK.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I disagree. One reason is that I think that they should have started meeting earlier. Before Rand started hiding. Rand did show up here and there. Egwene could have used Aviendha or actually any random dude to deliver an (encrypted) message to Rand to ask him for meeting.

Egwene, Nynaeve and, Leane and Suian did a much better job in this fashion in the past.

 

Before she went to Salidar, she was right there with him (half of the time), and both factions had sent delegations to "deal" with him.  Once she went to Salidar, Egwene was not in a position to do anything with regards to setting up a meeting with him before he began hiding from any and everyone.  Rand went into hiding before Egwene had control of the situation with the Salidar Aes Sedai.

 

Well, if she could just find a single hour of her time to find Rand (it would be no trouble for her to find him quickly because of the bond) it would spare her hours of other work that she has to do for her lack of knowlegde.

 

Except that Aviendha told her, during the Cleansing, that if either of them went to him, something bad would happen.  It was one of her "half remembered" things from the rings of Rhuidean.  And since then, she's been very encumbered trying to gain the throne.  She can't really just "go off for a while", even for a couple of hours, without telling people where she's going, or at least when she'll be back.

 

So, as simple as you make it sound, it isn't.

 

Yes. They are very busy. And they would be less busy if they would share knowlegde by meeting in regular intervals.

 

Ah ... no.  Adding meetings, and the necessary arrangements for those meetings (not everyone involved really trusts everyone else, remember?) would make them more busy, even assuming they could do it.

 

All that said, information sharing will probably be a little better in AMoL.  When Aviendha went on her convenient ter'angreal identifying spree, she found at least 13 that are for long range communications.

 

I agree, that it is realism. Even in the 21st century where all of the interesting things made possible by cheap electronic devices exist people tend to ignore the power of communication. It is so furstrating if you spent hours of work to archieve something and then you see everything going down the drain just because people avoid to communicate with you. I fear that my interpretation of realism is quite different from yours.

 

Um ... since you started that paragraph by agreeing with me, how is my interpretation different from yours?

 

So? Why does nobody know of Perrin being a Wolfbrother? Right: Lack of communication. There were plenty of chances for Perrin to tell the others. But for some reason I tries to keep it secret. I understand that he is afraid to tell unknown people of his ability since he will be seen as a darkfriend or worse. But he could tell his friends!

Of course Rand has got to ward his dreams, but he knows how to Enter T'A'R with a gateway or somthing similar. With the one power anyway. He could take part in meetings. Of course that would have to be arranged previously but I do not think that this would be that hard.

 

You do realize that I'm not saying that the lack of communication is a good thing, right?  I'm saying that it's realistic, not that it's good.  Yes, alot of problems would be solved if everyone got together and spilled their guts.  But that is not realistic, either in the situations portrayed in the books, or in real life.

 

I understand why Egwene wants to "rescue" the white tower without Rand's help. But that is no reason to avoid Rand at all. Mind, the meetings should be secret.

And yes, the events will outpace Egwene. Rand fought several battles against the Seanchan. He could supply useful strategic information but of course he does not know that the White Tower is in danger and Egwene does not know that Rand is in the position to supply useful information. If they'd just talk with each other!

 

She can't find Rand without help, so it is not possible to keep the meeting totally secret.  And as Amyrlin, she is pretty much never alone.

 

Its just not as simple as you're making it out to be.

 

Perhaps they could not have used T'A'R for that, but they should have arranged some way to exchange messages safely.

 

Um ... how?  Rand is moving, so pigeons can't find him.  Even if they had set something up earlier, it wouldn't help them now.  And, every line of communication between them is another opportunity for the Forsaken to spy on them, to intercept and even change the communications.

 

Anything but face to face communication can be compromised, and face to face communication is very, very difficult.

[Tyrell]

All that said, information sharing will probably be a little better in AMoL.  When Aviendha went on her convenient ter'angreal identifying spree, she found at least 13 that are for long range communications.

 

Although someone may be listening in (see Moridin / The Watcher in ACOS when he listens in to Sammael/Sevanna).

[RobertAlexWillis]

Although someone may be listening in (see Moridin / The Watcher in ACOS when he listens in to Sammael/Sevanna).

 

Quite possibly.  Any form of communication, other than face to face in a secure place, carries risk of being intercepted.

 

A perfect example is Moiraine's message to Siuan, after Rand took Callandor.  Mesaana didn't want word to get to Siuan until her plan to split the Tower was in place, so she probably just had someone intercept the message at the pigeon roost, and then release it to Siuan when it would do the most damage.  Clearly something happened to the message, since the rumors got to Tar Valon before the message did.  Min was talking about how a man on horseback could have gotten to Tar Valon more quickly, yet Moiraine said that she had sent the message fairly soon after the events in Tear.

 

The point is, communication is a real problem, and Jordan is treating it in a realistic way.  Would everyone benefit from everyone getting together and sharing all their information?  Of course.  But is it realistic to think that would actually happen?  Nope.

[BrainFireBob]

Actually, RAW, I'd argue that he takes it to a bit of an extreme for story purposes. It's a mite out of character for someone like Thom not to be concerned about letting Rand know about the male a'dam, even if opportunity hasn't come up- just because he swore to the women he wouldn't.

 

There's a mite too little "back Rand or it all goes to hell" and a bit too much "the scary Kinslayer". I agree with Jordan that most would scheme for advantage, but there should be more Cadsuanes and Basheres.

[yankee]

Before she went to Salidar, she was right there with him (half of the time), and both factions had sent delegations to "deal" with him.

Well... The two fractions are another matter.

Once she went to Salidar, Egwene was not in a position to do anything with regards to setting up a meeting with him before he began hiding from any and everyone.  Rand went into hiding before Egwene had control of the situation with the Salidar Aes Sedai.

Egwene could have planted a message in Caemly or wherever. Rand will return there at some point. And will find the message. But Egwene did not even try. If she tried and failed to set up something I could understand, but she does not even consider.

 

Well, if she could just find a single hour of her time to find Rand (it would be no trouble for her to find him quickly because of the bond) it would spare her hours of other work that she has to do for her lack of knowlegde.

 

Except that Aviendha told her, during the Cleansing, that if either of them went to him, something bad would happen.  It was one of her "half remembered" things from the rings of Rhuidean.

Ok, you got a point there... But I still think that they should try to communicate.

And since then, she's been very encumbered trying to gain the throne.  She can't really just "go off for a while", even for a couple of hours, without telling people where she's going, or at least when she'll be back.

So what? Where is the problem? She tells everybody "I am going to be back in an hour or two. Have fun". But I actually think it is more complicated then that. It should make things much easier for her that she has Birgitte. She can trust Birgitte and can tell her her true plans. Birgitte can cover up for her. Birgitte could pretend that Elayne is asleep.

Yes. They are very busy. And they would be less busy if they would share knowlegde by meeting in regular intervals.

 

Ah ... no.  Adding meetings, and the necessary arrangements for those meetings (not everyone involved really trusts everyone else, remember?) would make them more busy, even assuming they could do it.

Well. Elayne and Rand trust each other. That is ensured because of the bond. Egwene and Rand should trust each other. Well. Perhaps not completely but enough so that none of them needs to be afraid to be kidnapped by the other.

 

All that said, information sharing will probably be a little better in AMoL.  When Aviendha went on her convenient ter'angreal identifying spree, she found at least 13 that are for long range communications.

I hope you are right :-).

 

I agree, that it is realism. Even in the 21st century where all of the interesting things made possible by cheap electronic devices exist people tend to ignore the power of communication. It is so furstrating if you spent hours of work to archieve something and then you see everything going down the drain just because people avoid to communicate with you. I fear that my interpretation of realism is quite different from yours.

 

Um ... since you started that paragraph by agreeing with me, how is my interpretation different from yours?

Because my interperation is that it is realistic that people pass chances to communicate. Even if it is really easy. Even today in the 21st century. Event between friends. Your interpretations is -correct me, if I got that wrong- that it is realistic because people do not have the time to communicate.

 

You do realize that I'm not saying that the lack of communication is a good thing, right?  I'm saying that it's realistic, not that it's good.  Yes, alot of problems would be solved if everyone got together and spilled their guts.  But that is not realistic, either in the situations portrayed in the books, or in real life.

But it is a solvable problem. In real life it is easier to solve than in the books. Most of the time it would suffice if certain people notice that other things then playing mp3s can be done with their cell phone. It involves less then 30 seconds to make a quick call and report something. In the books it is harder to organize. But yet it is possible.

That this behaviour is realistic does not make the problem any better. I hope we all take it as a warning of what might go wrong if we negelect our possibilities to communicate.

 

I understand why Egwene wants to "rescue" the white tower without Rand's help. But that is no reason to avoid Rand at all. Mind, the meetings should be secret.

And yes, the events will outpace Egwene. Rand fought several battles against the Seanchan. He could supply useful strategic information but of course he does not know that the White Tower is in danger and Egwene does not know that Rand is in the position to supply useful information. If they'd just talk with each other!

 

She can't find Rand without help, so it is not possible to keep the meeting totally secret.  And as Amyrlin, she is pretty much never alone.

She is rarely alone because she does not organize it. She can, if she wants to. She was alone when she "attacked" one of the harbours. And it took the Aes Sedai quite a while to figure that she was gone ;-).

She cannot find Rand without help, that is right. But she can use Aviendha and she can use Elayne. Or at least she could ask Elayne to give a message to Rand once Rand shows up again. But Egwene does not even think of it. As I said before: If she tried and failed I would understand, but she does not even consider the possibility.

 

Perhaps they could not have used T'A'R for that, but they should have arranged some way to exchange messages safely.

 

Um ... how?  Rand is moving, so pigeons can't find him.  Even if they had set something up earlier, it wouldn't help them now.

Yes it would have helped. If they agreed on a place to hide messages that they would check in regular intervals that would most definitly have helped.

And, every line of communication between them is another opportunity for the Forsaken to spy on them, to intercept and even change the communications.

Thanks to modern technology that is something that is not possible in the 21st century if you know how to make use of the right technology. In the books the technology is much simpler than that. But they do have some bases of encryption. They are sending "encrypted" messages all the time. "encrypted" meaning that they find alternative way to express matter so that only the receiptent understands the content. These messages can have certain secret properties. Such as a certain number of words per line or certain words to use. These things are unknown to someone who intercepts the message and wants to change it.

Actually the Forsaken could have tried to create communication with their oponnents without intercepting messages previously. What if they just send a letter to Rand  signed by Egwene. It would be just waaaay to easy to turn every kind of friendship into hatred using this method. Of course thinking does not seem to be a strength of the Forsaken and thus sophisticated plans like this and the Forsaken do not really fit together.

 

Anything but face to face communication can be compromised, and face to face communication is very, very difficult.

As I explained communication can be comprimised without that there existed one previously. That is no reason. And there are ways to protect communiction from beeing compromised. But the characters do not even consider!

[RobertAlexWillis]

Your interpretations is -correct me, if I got that wrong- that it is realistic because people do not have the time to communicate.

 

Well ... my interpretation is that it is both.  That is, it is realistic that people pass up opportunities to communicate, and that the situations the characters in make it difficult, if not impossible, to communicate.

 

That this behaviour is realistic does not make the problem any better.

 

I know.  Thats what I was saying.  Jordan treats his characters realistically, which means they screw up.  However, it is also more reasonable for them to screw up, since it is certainly harder for them to communicate than it is for me to get on the phone and call my buddy.

 

It is a combination of factors.

 

Whenever I think of the problems in communication in a pre-industrial society, I think of the Battle of New Orleans, in 1815.  For anyone who doesn't get the reference, look it up.  Then you'll have learned something today.

 

I don't think your idea of "leaving a message somewhere" would work, simply because that would have required a previous agreement, which they didn't have, and couldn't really anticipate the need for.  Egwene didn't know that she was going back to Salidar to become Amyrlin.

 

I will agree that a golden opportunity that was missed, however, was Rand's trip to Caemlyn.  If Rand and Elayne had spent an hour or so talking, instead of ... well ... you know ... for the sixth time ... then some of this could have been set up.  But while Rand trusts Elayne with his life, he doesn't want her to know where he is (for her safety), and she doesn't want anyone to know that they have a relationship (for their children's safety).

 

There is also the fact that none of them knows just how much they all have to gain by talking.  We, as semi-omniscient readers, know exactly how much the effort would be worth it, but they don't.  From their individual perspectives, the risks outweigh the benefits.  They're probably wrong, but again, thats realistic.

[World_of_Wheel_of_Time]

From what I can see, no one has mentioned Daes Dae'mar, since knowledge can be a dangerous weapon in many perpectives, the Dragon Reborn, the Leader of Manetheren, the General of the Band of the Red Hand, the Queen of Andor, the Amyrlin of the Rebels can't exactly just hand out information to eachother.

 

Rand doesn't want to place anyone in danger, while Perrin and Mat are in the dark the entire time and don't understand what's happening on a larger scale.

 

Egwene is scared of Rand, Perrin, and Mat and don't know what to do or what to tell them.

 

Elayne can't exactly tell Rand about everything that's been happening because then how would Rand deal with his problems while he deals with hers?

 

In addition to all the other difficulties, "blinded by politics" is the right answer. Knowledge is indeed a dangerous weapon...

[trakand_01]

I think its pretty simple really, they've all got their own things going on. Just think - how many times at your place of work have you had a problem and thought 'SOMEONE must know the answer... but i dont know who'? How often do you meet with EVERYONE of significance to discuss things, regardless of their location in the world?

 

I think also from their point of view, they dont consider meeting up;

 

Rand has thrown Perrin across the throne-room, embarrassed him and sent him home in a fury - unsurprisingly Perrin's first thought isnt 'I must go have lunch with Rand sometime soon'. Similarly rand thinks perrin is done with him and wouldnt come back if he begged.

 

Rand thinks Mat is bringing Elayne to HIM, he sent Mat to bring her from Salidar to Caemlyn, and knows no different.

 

Egwene sent Lan is going to look after Nynaeve. Knowing enough of Lan, she considers this as good as Nynaeve being as safe as she can be. She knows what Nyn and Elayne are about, and that Mat is with them. She believes they will return when they have the bowl.

 

When Egwene and Rand were last together, Rand infuriated Egwene. He doesnt know she's the amyrlin. Granted this could have been better communicated, I think at this point in the story (i'm only at the beginning of CoS) that is the one thing that Mat could have done better - written to Rand.

 

Egwene thinks Perrin is with Rand.

 

They all think the others are 'on with' their missions, that all is going to the plan that was agreed when last they met. They dont KNOW that plans have changed en-route.

 

Think about it this way - your friend goes on holiday. You understand that they have a flight at 10am and will be back next thursday. En-route, their plane has to stop due to bad weather conditions and turns around, they dont get to their holiday destination and are back the day after tomorrow. You don't know they're back, and they dont think to ring you. Is it anyone's fault that you dont know this? Not really. And that's in a world where communication is of a very good quality - emails, telephones, the internet.

 

The story has progressed now to a point where they have each been thrown in at the deep end, and have to look after number 1 first and foremost;

 

Rand - Dragon Reborn, say no more

Elayne - thinks her mother is dead, has become AS, trying to end the heat wave

Nynaeve - become AS, trying to end the heat wave, just married the man she loves

Perrin - been exiled by Rand, has a wife he can't control, Lord of Manetheren

Mat - trying to keep Nyn and Elayne alive and well, and raise a 10 year old boy

Egwene - Amyrlin to the rebel AS

 

Egwene, Mat and Rand as i see it are the main ones who should talk - Egwene is busy with the AS, trying to be a REAL Amyrlin, not just a puppet, thinks Rand has it all in hand and that Mat is looking after E/N.

 

Rand - thinks Mat is looking after E/N, doesnt know Egwene is amyrlin

 

Mat - thinks Egwene will muddle on by, thinks Rand has it all under control...

[Tyrell]

 

Rand has thrown Perrin across the throne-room, embarrassed him and sent him home in a fury - unsurprisingly Perrin's first thought isnt 'I must go have lunch with Rand sometime soon'. Similarly rand thinks perrin is done with him and wouldnt come back if he begged.

Perrin - been exiled by Rand, has a wife he can't control, Lord of Manetheren

 

 

The fight was staged, Perrin is working for Rand.

[Majsju]

 

Rand has thrown Perrin across the throne-room, embarrassed him and sent him home in a fury - unsurprisingly Perrin's first thought isnt 'I must go have lunch with Rand sometime soon'. Similarly rand thinks perrin is done with him and wouldnt come back if he begged.

Perrin - been exiled by Rand, has a wife he can't control, Lord of Manetheren

 

 

The fight was staged, Perrin is working for Rand.

 

Indeed, it was done so Perrin could go in secret and meet with the queen of Ghealdan who did not dare to approach Rand openly.